What Are Your 2018-19 Expectations?

[Scott]

My answer here will tie into another thread when someone commented I disliked all the players that are being signed and brought back just to push back.

 

Fundamentally I don't entirely blame AV for the shit show last year. I also am concerned that the perceived lack of effort was his fault. If a professional player needs a foot up his ass to leave it all on the ice I do t want him on my team.

 

I dont see how bringing everyone back and expecting a significantly different result is off season improvement, especially on D. I'm not sure there's a system to fix that. I don't see a lot of these guys playing a meaning role on a good/real good NHL team. We aren't good/real good so my point is I don't think there's much of a ceiling to be had.

 

In the end I think we're a bottom 6-7, they will come out hard for a new coach but he to will likely struggle at times which can be expected. I think the D will a huge problem and if one of the top three get hurt including if Shattenkirk and Brady don't step up and in a big way it could get even uglier. Also have to hope Hank's and Mark's games don't deteriorate as they get another year older.

 

Hoping to be wrong, really looking to just be entertained with no winning expectations. Feel free to disagree.

 

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[Future]

My answer here will tie into another thread when someone commented I disliked all the players that are being signed and brought back just to push back.

 

Fundamentally I don't entirely blame AV for the shit show last year. I also am concerned that the perceived lack of effort was his fault. If a professional player needs a foot up his ass to leave it all on the ice I do t want him on my team.

 

I dont see how bringing everyone back and expecting a significantly different result is off season improvement, especially on D. I'm not sure there's a system to fix that. I don't see a lot of these guys playing a meaning role on a good/real good NHL team. We aren't good/real good so my point is I don't think there's much of a ceiling to be had.

 

In the end I think we're a bottom 6-7, they will come out hard for a new coach but he to will likely struggle at times which can be expected. I think the D will a huge problem and if one of the top three get hurt including if Shattenkirk and Brady don't step up and in a big way it could get even uglier. Also have to hope Hank's and Mark's games don't deteriorate as they get another year older.

 

Hoping to be wrong, really looking to just be entertained with no winning expectations. Feel free to disagree.

 

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I agree with all this, especially about lack of effort. At the professional level, I don't think it's a coach's responsibility to get guys to play hard. These aren't children.

 

I don't think they're really bringing everyone back on D. At least 3 guys will be different than the end of the season.

 

Skjei - Pionk

Staal - Shatty

Smith - ADA

 

For example, is vastly different than what they played the second half of last year with. Who knows how good/bad that will be, but it should be a lot different.

[Giacomin]

Why does the original post and others emphasize "as is"? Draft and FA is done. What would anyone expect happen between now and the preseason? Some lopsided trade in our favor that changes the our fortunes dramatically? A college FA signing? Is it just a hedge against your own predictions?

 

There may be a trade before opening night, maybe not. Regardless, the gain and the loss will be close to equal value, like most trades.

 

How can we expect anything, this is an incomplete non-playoff team. We have grotesque holes in key spots. For starters, I believe Zib and Kreids could make for a good 1st line if they had a RW who could skate, score and play D. A Mark Stone type. Unfortunately we have nothing close and no top RW in the system.

 

Instead we will have to weaken the entire lineup pushing a non-first liner on the top line. Buch has not shown he can do it. Fast is the best option to play with those guys, which should tell us a ton. It sucks because Fast would be a huge help elsewhere in the lineup and outplay his matchup.

 

Second, how can Brady reach his potential next year playing with a very overmatched partner. It sucks for his growth and our assessment of his growth. We need to put players in a position to succeed and mgmt has so far failed to get a competent top pair RHD. The D could fall into place filling this hole. Again the rest of the RHDs are good 3rd pair guys right now, with the hope that one improves enough to be a top 4. It is not a good situation and top lines are going to pressure the hell out of us. It will be hard to gauge the shitshow, everyone will have to compensate for the weak defensive Dmen.

 

Our future top RHD is currently in Harvard and won't be here for 2 seasons. We hope. That's the best we can hope for Lundkvist too.

 

Last, who plays all those big minutes on the left side behind Skjei? Our second pair lefty. Staal should not be that guy. Here, a stop gap will have to do since Hajek could actually be that guy and is likely one year away. However the two other holes slows our development and chances to build a strong playoff team.

[Giacomin]

we have another season of the rebuild to look forward to. of course i want to see them play hard and i'd give quinn a quick hook if thats not the case.

 

i really see them being sellers at the deadline once again, believing the draft class is again strong. in looking at the potential 2019 free agents the only guy worth talking about is seguin of dallas but would be hard to believe they dont resign him at some point this year, especially since he's still only 26.

 

my point being is that it seems a long shot that FA helps you much in this day and age given the way teams are locking up the young talent.

 

sort of forced to grow your own.

 

Best post on the thread. Grow your own. Grow organically. :slats:

 

Expect problems from free agency such as paying for bygone performance while overpaying for future performance, age and injuries.

 

Our best hope is the C's develop and overperform and eventually allow us to trade for one or two of those pieces. And our 1st pick next year yields a top-line/pair player. It wouldn't hurt if some of our vets in their mid 20s put together their best year.

[Future]

Why does the original post and others emphasize "as is"? Draft and FA is done. What would anyone expect happen between now and the preseason? Some lopsided trade in our favor that changes the our fortunes dramatically? A college FA signing? Is it just a hedge against your own predictions?

 

There may be a trade before opening night, maybe not. Regardless, the gain and the loss will be close to equal value, like most trades.

 

How can we expect anything, this is an incomplete non-playoff team. We have grotesque holes in key spots. For starters, I believe Zib and Kreids could make for a good 1st line if they had a RW who could skate, score and play D. A Mark Stone type. Unfortunately we have nothing close and no top RW in the system.

 

Instead we will have to weaken the entire lineup pushing a non-first liner on the top line. Buch has not shown he can do it. Fast is the best option to play with those guys, which should tell us a ton. It sucks because Fast would be a huge help elsewhere in the lineup and outplay his matchup.

 

Second, how can Brady reach his potential next year playing with a very overmatched partner. It sucks for his growth and our assessment of his growth. We need to put players in a position to succeed and mgmt has so far failed to get a competent top pair RHD. The D could fall into place filling this hole. Again the rest of the RHDs are good 3rd pair guys right now, with the hope that one improves enough to be a top 4. It is not a good situation and top lines are going to pressure the hell out of us. It will be hard to gauge the shitshow, everyone will have to compensate for the weak defensive Dmen.

 

Our future top RHD is currently in Harvard and won't be here for 2 seasons. We hope. That's the best we can hope for Lundkvist too.

 

Last, who plays all those big minutes on the left side behind Skjei? Our second pair lefty. Staal should not be that guy. Here, a stop gap will have to do since Hajek could actually be that guy and is likely one year away. However the two other holes slows our development and chances to build a strong playoff team.

You're just assuming that "as-is" means worst case scenario. I mean just playing the what-if game....

 

What if Buch builds on the start of last year and the KZB line all records over 60 points?

What if Hajek is Provorov and immediately plays 20:00?

What if Skjei/Pionk work well together and turn into a top pair?

What if Smith and Shatty both return to their top form after a down year?

What if Vesey and Hayes make big scoring jumps under a new coach?

What if Chytil and Lias are not only ready, but ROY candidates?

 

There are dozens of plausible what ifs that could make the Rangers a playoff team as there are last-place team. Something like 28 teams in the league have "grotesque holes," welcome to the Salary Cap Era. Rebuilders or not, there are things that could go right that put the Rangers in the playoffs next year.

[josh]

More like reading "Rangers acquire Karlsson, Seguin, officially ending rebuild" tomorrow morning.

[Giacomin]

You're just assuming that "as-is" means worst case scenario. I mean just playing the what-if game....

 

What if Buch builds on the start of last year and the KZB line all records over 60 points?

What if Hajek is Provorov and immediately plays 20:00?

What if Skjei/Pionk work well together and turn into a top pair?

What if Smith and Shatty both return to their top form after a down year?

What if Vesey and Hayes make big scoring jumps under a new coach?

What if Chytil and Lias are not only ready, but ROY candidates?

 

There are dozens of plausible what ifs that could make the Rangers a playoff team as there are last-place team. Something like 28 teams in the league have "grotesque holes," welcome to the Salary Cap Era. Rebuilders or not, there are things that could go right that put the Rangers in the playoffs next year.

 

Well. "as is" means as currently configured. And my response to that is even if we make a change in configuration, before the season, we shouldn't expect something that vaults us to a different level.

 

What you are saying goes right to the original question of "what do you expect"? You posted 6 lines of 'what ifs'. OK now be realistic and realize that one, maybe two of those things is about all that should be hoped for.

 

My advice to anyone who thinks Hajek will be Provorov next year or Pionk will be a 1RHD next year or Lias is a ROYC.... you are in for a let down. Manage your expectations better. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

I've even seen folks talking about Ronning in the lineup next year. Not six months ago I was an unrealistic fool saying Ronning is going to play in the NHL someday. Beyond a cup of coffee. Now a few folks have him penciled in at MSG for the opener, even though he's never played against men.

 

Folks sure know how to turn a good thing into unrealistic expectations.

[Gravesy]

Ronning played a couple of games for the Pack last season, but carry on.

Tbh you seem very caught up in this “never played against men” business. We’re a rebuilding team with several exciting prospects coming through. There’s a very good chance a few guys with little or no experience against grownups are going to get a shot at the big time next season.

[AliveIn94]

Optimistically, playoff bubble team, Lias and Filip hit 50-60 points, Pionk and ADA show up as servicable 3-4 D, Hank has a good year.

 

Realistically, most of the rookies stay in Hartford and we are bottom 10 if Hank has a decent year.

 

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[Future]

Well. "as is" means as currently configured. And my response to that is even if we make a change in configuration, before the season, we shouldn't expect something that vaults us to a different level.

 

What you are saying goes right to the original question of "what do you expect"? You posted 6 lines of 'what ifs'. OK now be realistic and realize that one, maybe two of those things is about all that should be hoped for.

 

My advice to anyone who thinks Hajek will be Provorov next year or Pionk will be a 1RHD next year or Lias is a ROYC.... you are in for a let down. Manage your expectations better. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

I've even seen folks talking about Ronning in the lineup next year. Not six months ago I was an unrealistic fool saying Ronning is going to play in the NHL someday. Beyond a cup of coffee. Now a few folks have him penciled in at MSG for the opener, even though he's never played against men.

 

Folks sure know how to turn a good thing into unrealistic expectations.

I didn't say that a single one of them was an expectation. The point is that everything could go bad, or everything could go well. Because we don't know which way things will skew, there's absolutely 0 way to have any sort of expectations. If two of those things go right, they could be in the playoffs.

 

You don't know any more about Hajek than anyone so stop assuming he can't play in the NHL next year, you're just arbitrarily putting a ceiling on him for no reason. Maybe you're right, but it's completely baseless. Nobody is expecting him to, but it's not as if there's no precedent for that sort of thign.

[Scott]

You're just assuming that "as-is" means worst case scenario. I mean just playing the what-if game....

 

What if Buch builds on the start of last year and the KZB line all records over 60 points?

What if Hajek is Provorov and immediately plays 20:00?

What if Skjei/Pionk work well together and turn into a top pair?

What if Smith and Shatty both return to their top form after a down year?

What if Vesey and Hayes make big scoring jumps under a new coach?

What if Chytil and Lias are not only ready, but ROY candidates?

 

There are dozens of plausible what ifs that could make the Rangers a playoff team as there are last-place team. Something like 28 teams in the league have "grotesque holes," welcome to the Salary Cap Era. Rebuilders or not, there are things that could go right that put the Rangers in the playoffs next year.

 

IMO there are way more chances of as-is vs. what if's. Just a difference of opinion.

 

However if half/three quarters of the what if's come true we'll make the playoffs.

[Scott]

I agree with all this, especially about lack of effort. At the professional level, I don't think it's a coach's responsibility to get guys to play hard. These aren't children.

 

I don't think they're really bringing everyone back on D. At least 3 guys will be different than the end of the season.

 

Skjei - Pionk

Staal - Shatty

Smith - ADA

 

For example, is vastly different than what they played the second half of last year with. Who knows how good/bad that will be, but it should be a lot different.

 

Is it really though didn't Skjei/Pionk/Staal and ADA finish last year?

 

Pretty sure we know what we're gonna get from Shattenkirk - good (hopefully v good)/O but no D, and for Smith, should he be an NHL player on this current team YES. Hopefully he doesn't shit the bed again, did he learn his lesson - let's hope so.

[Giacomin]

Ronning played a couple of games for the Pack last season, but carry on.

Tbh you seem very caught up in this “never played against men” business. We’re a rebuilding team with several exciting prospects coming through. There’s a very good chance a few guys with little or no experience against grownups are going to get a shot at the big time next season.

 

You're right, this is the second time recently. Sorry, I use it as shorthand, but don't want it to sound like a mantra.

 

Yet, put it in context, specifically in this case. Those critical of Ronning's dismiss his production by allciting his advantage as an over-ager. Interested parties want to see him make the jump against older/bigger players. He'll get that playing a year in Hartford.

 

Six months ago mgmt were not thinking... hey Ronning is going to be ready for MSG in October. Why should anyone managing his development jump him at least two levels? The only reason given is that the Rangers are going to suck, we have room for them in NY. That should not be a significant consideration for Ronning or most of the kids who haven't played in the A/K/SHL, but a few games.

 

I stated Howden and Ronning haven't played against men, I stand corrected. They did a real brief stint. Howden is mentally mature and may have the physical stature to hold his own, but starting in Hartford should still be the expectation. Surprises can and do happen, but they should not be expected. Obviously.

[Giacomin]

I didn't say that a single one of them was an expectation. The point is that everything could go bad, or everything could go well. Because we don't know which way things will skew, there's absolutely 0 way to have any sort of expectations. If two of those things go right, they could be in the playoffs.

 

Sure. I really have no idea what to expect from a number of players, but I'm optimistic about a few. Forced to make a prediction though, glaring holes and so many question marks means this is not a playoff team this year.

 

You don't know any more about Hajek than anyone so stop assuming he can't play in the NHL next year, you're just arbitrarily putting a ceiling on him for no reason. Maybe you're right, but it's completely baseless. Nobody is expecting him to, but it's not as if there's no precedent for that sort of thign.

 

No need to be snappy about it. I'm not assuming Hajek can't play in the NHL next year, in fact I'm hoping he gets called up by the trade deadline. I'm just expecting that a Dman of his age and pedigree starts in Hartford.

 

You seem to hope he automatically solves our need for a quality LHD in camp. That's fine, as a fan I understand your enthusiastic optimism. Just don't spread those expectations and then complain when fans determine that he isn't as good as they hoped (after giving him his 20 games), when he is not close to a finished product.

[The Dude]

I just want to see guys shoot like crazy. I want net crashing. I want pesky, buzzing around the ice, hard to play against, players that are allowed to do what their skillset can provide.

 

No more sculpting players by focusing on their short comings, and trying to make them into something they aren't. Let these kids play THEIR game, and adapt some kind of system around what they become.

 

Bottom 13. Decent offense. Mediocre D with kids like Hajek, and Lindgren pushing ADA out the door. Smith rebounds and is named captain. Nash signs and plays awesome until he gets knocked on his but and isn't the same anymore, retiring in January.

[Giacomin]

On Hajek, I will point out that Gorton said this recently, "the team liked Hajek’s ability to play big minutes in all situations" and added that it “would be great’’ if he made the team.

 

Said Gorton, “Listen, if he comes into camp and he’s close [to making the team], and he’s ready, and he’s pushing, we’ll just keep giving him rope and see how far he can take it.’’

 

So, Hajek and Howden may get extra consideration if they look good in Camp. This may shock you Future, but I'm extremely optimistic about these two players so I'm ready for a surprise. I've just tried to be vigilant in my expectations. The next traditional and logical step would be to start in Hartford. That is not set in stone, just what would normally be expected.

 

If they start in the A, nothing stops the team from making quick call ups of anybody who impresses. I'm not feeling the urgency some fans do, to push them into a MSG immediately. This isn't Anaheim where we are retarding Theodore and Montour. Kid just turned 20 and is a Dman. Even mentioning him with Provorov or McAvoy is setting him up against a very high bar. Let's see how he these kids look in preseason and react accordingly. Let them standout and outright win a job playing real minutes.

[Parsley]

I?m actually looking forward to my bar being set as low as it has been in a decade+.

 

Basically only one way to go.

 

 

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[Gravesy]

You're right, this is the second time recently. Sorry, I use it as shorthand, but don't want it to sound like a mantra.

 

Yet, put it in context, specifically in this case. Those critical of Ronning's dismiss his production by allciting his advantage as an over-ager. Interested parties want to see him make the jump against older/bigger players. He'll get that playing a year in Hartford.

 

Six months ago mgmt were not thinking... hey Ronning is going to be ready for MSG in October. Why should anyone managing his development jump him at least two levels? The only reason given is that the Rangers are going to suck, we have room for them in NY. That should not be a significant consideration for Ronning or most of the kids who haven't played in the A/K/SHL, but a few games.

 

I stated Howden and Ronning haven't played against men, I stand corrected. They did a real brief stint. Howden is mentally mature and may have the physical stature to hold his own, but starting in Hartford should still be the expectation. Surprises can and do happen, but they should not be expected. Obviously.

 

I agree we shouldn?t be expecting anything from these kids. However, because of where we are as an organization, I think the mindset going into camp is slightly different this year. I?ve heard Gorton using the ?if you?re good enough you?re old enough? line on a few occasions now. If one or two of the kids really show up at camp they?ll have a chance at making the roster, a chance that probably wouldn?t be there in ?normal? circumstances.

Gorton has also repeatedly said they won?t be holding anyone back if they?re good enough and the coaching staff feel they can handle it.

That?s why I feel that, this year, there could be one or two kids making the team without having a lot of experience against men.

But I fully agree we shouldn?t be expecting them to, and it?s probably just as likely all of them will start in the A.

[Future]

No need to be snappy about it. I'm not assuming Hajek can't play in the NHL next year, in fact I'm hoping he gets called up by the trade deadline. I'm just expecting that a Dman of his age and pedigree starts in Hartford.

 

You seem to hope he automatically solves our need for a quality LHD in camp. That's fine, as a fan I understand your enthusiastic optimism. Just don't spread those expectations and then complain when fans determine that he isn't as good as they hoped (after giving him his 20 games), when he is not close to a finished product.

I'm snappy b/c you keep ignoring the fact that "what if" and "I expect" are not the same thing.

[Future]

Is it really though didn't Skjei/Pionk/Staal and ADA finish last year?

 

Pretty sure we know what we're gonna get from Shattenkirk - good (hopefully v good)/O but no D, and for Smith, should he be an NHL player on this current team YES. Hopefully he doesn't shit the bed again, did he learn his lesson - let's hope so.

ADA didn't finish last season, and was playing really well before he got hurt.

 

ADA, Shatty, and Smith is a massive improvement over Gilmour, O'Gara, and Sproul. That's dependent on ADA picking up where he left off and Shatty/Smith both returning to form (which, who knows really), but that's a much higher upside with those 3.

[Pete]

Today...Skjei, Staal, Smith and probably another LHD or 2 say Hajek starts in Hartford.

 

That said, anything can happen in camp.

[Ozzy]

You're just assuming that "as-is" means worst case scenario. I mean just playing the what-if game....

 

What if Buch builds on the start of last year and the KZB line all records over 60 points?

What if Hajek is Provorov and immediately plays 20:00?

What if Skjei/Pionk work well together and turn into a top pair?

What if Smith and Shatty both return to their top form after a down year?

What if Vesey and Hayes make big scoring jumps under a new coach?

What if Chytil and Lias are not only ready, but ROY candidates?

 

There are dozens of plausible what ifs that could make the Rangers a playoff team as there are last-place team. Something like 28 teams in the league have "grotesque holes," welcome to the Salary Cap Era. Rebuilders or not, there are things that could go right that put the Rangers in the playoffs next year.

 

This is exactly what I'll be watching for....and hoping for! I'll accept even if one of these things comes to life. Because if any of these things listed here come true, it gives us a very big step toward the 2019 draft and more youth to go build with.

[Shane Falco]

I'm not entirely convinced they'll be a lotto team this coming season. For all we know this new coaching staff may be able to get them to play actual defense. I think they'll hang in the most worthless spot of all. Right in the middle. Where they won't make playoffs but won't get too high of a pick either.

[Respecttheblue]

I agree we shouldn’t be expecting anything from these kids. However, because of where we are as an organization, I think the mindset going into camp is slightly different this year. I’ve heard Gorton using the “if you’re good enough you’re old enough” line on a few occasions now. If one or two of the kids really show up at camp they’ll have a chance at making the roster, a chance that probably wouldn’t be there in “normal” circumstances.

Gorton has also repeatedly said they won’t be holding anyone back if they’re good enough and the coaching staff feel they can handle it.

That’s why I feel that, this year, there could be one or two kids making the team without having a lot of experience against men.

But I fully agree we shouldn’t be expecting them to, and it’s probably just as likely all of them will start in the A.

 

As much as I want to see the system and the process and the patience,

 

I don't mind the “if you’re good enough you’re old enough” philosophy in the right circumstance, and maybe this is the time in this team's evolution to let 'em play if they earn it. That said I don't want to see another hot 19 year old defenseman flame out because of intense pressure and distractions the way we saw it happen with whatsisface.

[Puck Head]

Expectations are so low that i think the NHL enacts a rule like soccer and makes the Rangers play in the AHL the season after

 

 

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