Youth/Minor/Development Hockey

[Mike]

Why not just do all of that in the fall?

 

You're giving parents and other organizations 5 months to move around. Season is officially over after the playoffs are completed. After that, you're free to go wherever you want. You can't tamper with a kid under contract. There are serious penalties for tampering here. Fines, suspensions, etc .. When you sign the kids in April, they can't leave unless the organization signs a release.

[Puck Head]

 

You're giving parents and other organizations 5 months to move around. Season is officially over after the playoffs are completed. After that, you're free to go wherever you want. You can't tamper with a kid under contract. There are serious penalties for tampering here. Fines, suspensions, etc .. When you sign the kids in April, they can't leave unless the organization signs a release.

 

We have 8 comp organizations around the anch bowl area. 3 nationally ranked. Multiple national titles.

 

Tryouts in fall.

 

I'm still confused as to what the problem is.

Sounds like parents are coaches are more focused on politics and recruitment then development

 

Why would coaches even be talking to parents and players during the summer?

[Mike]

During the season coaches have parents from their own team talk to other parents of other kids to circumvent the tampering rule. There is so much of it, and everyone is afraid you're going to leave. Having the tryouts 2 weeks after the season is over prevents coaches from calling parents. There's nothing wrong with it as long as you talk to them in that small window between season's end and tryout week. You guys have more kids that play hockey when you look at it percentage wise to your population. The organizations around here have 20+ teams from Mites -16U. So yes, politics and money are highly involved. There are 19 teams in Michael's division this year. 3 of them have 2 teams, so that's 16 orgs with AA teams. All 3 that have multiple teams, all have AAA teams. That right there shows they aren't sandbagging. Some lower divisions have close to 30 teams in it. Go to NJYHL.com and click on standings and schedules. All the divisions come up for each age group. Click on the divisions and take a look at all the teams competing for the same kids.

[Puck Head]

I guess it goes back to a question of character in regards to your coaches.

Tampering? Cicumventing? Sounds crazy to me.

 

And yes, you guys have more teams.

But it sounds as though there are other issues when having to "stop" bad behavior by coaches means the kids have to tryout that early.

 

We have in the Pee Wee division

9 AA teams.

9 A teams.

16 Tier "3" teams.

 

And around 50 Tier 4 teams (house)

[Mike]

I guess it goes back to a question of character in regards to your coaches.

Tampering? Cicumventing? Sounds crazy to me.

 

And yes, you guys have more teams.

But it sounds as though there are other issues when having to "stop" bad behavior by coaches means the kids have to tryout that early.

 

We have in the Pee Wee division

9 AA teams.

9 A teams.

16 Tier "3" teams.

 

And around 50 Tier 4 teams (house)

You can view it from every angle, but it all comes down to the 1 thing ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Puck Head]

Do they need that summer time to start fundraising etc?

That was one of the original points that some comp teams had in regards to Spring tryouts instead of Fall

[Mike]

Do they need that summer time to start fundraising etc?

That was one of the original points that some comp teams had in regards to Spring tryouts instead of Fall

 

I'm not sure exactly how that works, so I can't comment there. It may have something to do with it for some orgs, but not others. I can certainly understand their sense of urgency to get everyone signed, and collect. I think by signing in April, it gives some parents time to pay the 3-4k BEFORE the season starts. No org wants payment plans going on while they're in December.

[Mike]

I guess it goes back to a question of character in regards to your coaches.

Tampering? Cicumventing? Sounds crazy to me.

 

And yes, you guys have more teams.

But it sounds as though there are other issues when having to "stop" bad behavior by coaches means the kids have to tryout that early.

 

We have in the Pee Wee division

9 AA teams.

9 A teams.

16 Tier "3" teams.

 

And around 50 Tier 4 teams (house)

 

NJYHL at the PeeWee level has

19 AA teams

33 A teams

31 B teams

 

..... and then you have 23 tier 1 teams in the AYHL, and some of the other local tier 1 teams play in other tier 1 leagues. There are also other tier 2/3 leagues with local organizations. They have the Hudson Valley Hockey League, and the Garden State Youth Hockey League ... so throw another 30+ teams into the tier 2 mix at just the PeeWee level.

[Puck Head]

NJYHL at the PeeWee level has

19 AA teams

33 A teams

31 B teams

 

..... and then you have 23 tier 1 teams in the AYHL, and some of the other local tier 1 teams play in other tier 1 leagues. There are also other tier 2/3 leagues with local organizations. They have the Hudson Valley Hockey League, and the Garden State Youth Hockey League ... so throw another 30+ teams into the tier 2 mix at just the PeeWee level.

 

But i'm still confused as to why in the world they are having tryouts that early.

Once again, you only have so many registered USA hockey members in that area.

Is not THAT much greater then us.

 

And there are areas in Canada that blow us both away in regards to numbers.

It sounds like the ONLY reason they have tryouts so early is because they have created a enviroment where politics and crazy parents rule.

[Mike]

But i'm still confused as to why in the world they are having tryouts that early.

Once again, you only have so many registered USA hockey members in that area.

Is not THAT much greater then us.

 

And there are areas in Canada that blow us both away in regards to numbers.

It sounds like the ONLY reason they have tryouts so early is because they have created a enviroment where politics and crazy parents rule.

 

LOL, it is the only reason. The other things I listed are all factors into why it's so political.

[Puck Head]

LOL, it is the only reason. The other things I listed are all factors into why it's so political.

 

Seems to me that parents are going to drift to what ever coach/program they like no matter what, (fall/spring).

Typically around here the kids sign up for development, and stick within that program unless something drastic happens.

 

At the Pee Wee Major level, (us), and the Bantam AAA level, the amount of teams playing comp reduce dramatically.

That is when we start the heavy filter and it becomes much more competitive.

 

You have 200 kids out of 2000 trying out for 3-4 teams you pretty much even the playing field.

Coaches don't have to worry about who's showing up, there is plenty of talent to choose from.

 

After Bantam we send them the fuck out of here.

[Mike]

Seems to me that parents are going to drift to what ever coach/program they like no matter what, (fall/spring).

Typically around here the kids sign up for development, and stick within that program unless something drastic happens.

 

At the Pee Wee Major level, (us), and the Bantam AAA level, the amount of teams playing comp reduce dramatically.

That is when we start the heavy filter and it becomes much more competitive.

 

You have 200 kids out of 2000 trying out for 3-4 teams you pretty much even the playing field.

Coaches don't have to worry about who's showing up, there is plenty of talent to choose from.

 

After Bantam we send them the fuck out of here.

 

I understand that it's impossible for these orgs to please everyone, but when parents or kids feel robbed or slighted because of political bullshit, can you blame them for leaving? After this past season was over, a coach called me asking for Michael to come play for him. Why shouldn't I offer that option to my son? They're a top notch organization around here. I never complain to coaches, and I'm the easiest parent to deal with, but taking advantage of my kindness and loyalty isn't fair especially when there's no communication or lying. It's not fair to me, or Michael. He's missed 2 practices and 0 games in 4+ years. Not cool.

[Puck Head]

I understand that it's impossible for these orgs to please everyone, but when parents or kids feel robbed or slighted because of political bullshit, can you blame them for leaving? After this past season was over, a coach called me asking for Michael to come play for him. Why shouldn't I offer that option to my son? They're a top notch organization around here. I never complain to coaches, and I'm the easiest parent to deal with, but taking advantage of my kindness and loyalty isn't fair especially when there's no communication or lying. It's not fair to me, or Michael. He's missed 2 practices and 0 games in 4+ years. Not cool.

 

But couldn't that coach have waited untill fall?

I guess that's my point. Even with coaches calling kids, why not wait until the fall to do tryouts?

 

Kids change WAY too much over the summer, and the fall trouts encourage developement over the summer.

About the only thing we have to do is monitor and lower the amount of ice time parents try and get their kids over the summer.

 

And then 3 weeks before tryouts we encourage as much ice as they can handle.

[Mike]

But couldn't that coach have waited untill fall?

I guess that's my point. Even with coaches calling kids, why not wait until the fall to do tryouts?

 

Kids change WAY too much over the summer, and the fall trouts encourage developement over the summer.

About the only thing we have to do is monitor and lower the amount of ice time parents try and get their kids over the summer.

 

And then 3 weeks before tryouts we encourage as much ice as they can handle.

 

No. Once you tryout and make a team, you sign a contract. The kid can't leave unless the team agrees to release him. They lock all the kids in, and more importantly for them, they lock the money in. They won't wait until fall for tryouts because too much can happen, and they can potentially lose kids which equals losing money. Come spring and summer time, a lot of people get together and make super teams for tournaments. Too much persuasion and convincing can go on in those months. 2,3, or 4 kids from one team, could leave and go somewhere else. Tier 1 has a rule in place that no more than 2 kids can leave a team and go to another tier 1 team. I agree about the kids changing and developing, but the all mighty dollar takes precedent over everything else. If you want your kid to get better, you have to do the extra things in the off season. Camps, clinics, privates, etc ...

[Pete]

Nice to know it's all about developing the sport and players.

[Puck Head]

Nice to know it's all about developing the sport and players.

 

Bwahahaha

 

Peetie,

You and Adriana are sending your son my way for development.

Agreed?

[Pete]

Bwahahaha

 

Peetie,

You and Adriana are sending your son my way for development.

Agreed?

 

I'm not going to have a choice!

 

I figure I pay you to board him and feed him, he goes to public school in Alaska, and you develop him as a player and a person...And that would likely cost less than private school, hockey in NJ, and he'd be a better human for it.

 

;)

[Dunny]

Oh fuck off, he should go the Major Junior route!!1!1!!

[Pete]

Oh fuck off, he should go the Major Junior route!!1!1!!

 

I'd send him to you, but he'd come back unionized.

[Puck Head]

Oh fuck off, he should go the Major Junior route!!1!1!!

 

Major Jr is perfect Dunny.

We really don't develop here after age 16

[Mike]

Nice to know it's all about developing the sport and players.

 

It happens in every sport around here. They're always looking for the next best player. A winning team or organization draws people to it like a moth to a flame. If you're kid isn't good enough in whatever sport he plays, he's never going to get better unless you take the time out and spend the money for privates.

[Puck Head]

It happens in every sport around here. They're always looking for the next best player. A winning team or organization draws people to it like a moth to a flame. If you're kid isn't good enough in whatever sport he plays, he's never going to get better unless you take the time out and spend the money for privates.

 

We go the communist route up here best we can.

Develop all we can on the same program from ages 5-12.

Then we start to filter best we can.

[Pete]

We go the communist route up here best we can.

Develop all we can on the same program from ages 5-12.

Then we start to filter best we can.

 

This would seem to develop the best players.

 

As opposed to this.

 

It happens in every sport around here. They're always looking for the next best player. A winning team or organization draws people to it like a moth to a flame. If you're kid isn't good enough in whatever sport he plays, he's never going to get better unless you take the time out and spend the money for privates.

[Mike]

We go the communist route up here best we can.

Develop all we can on the same program from ages 5-12.

Then we start to filter best we can.

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way around here, in any sport. Everyone is looking to nab the best player. I got 5 emails and calls from coaches asking me if Michael would play ball for them this past summer. People are nuts.

[Dunny]

Your minor sports systems are completely fucked. Completely. You're School based programs are phenomonal however.