Adam Fox: Do We Have a Problem?

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, Br4d said:

 

Fox-Gustafsson

Trouba-Lindgren

Schneider-Miller

 

Gustafsson will be the guy who keeps things moving when Fox is in low energy mode.  It's a classic young-vet pair up.

 

This would be my preference. The 2nd and 3rd pairings would really be 2a/2b. They should use Miller-Schneider more earlier in games or when they need offense, and they should go to Lindgren-Trouba more when they're trying to lock things down. If you look at the pairings today, the roles are not defined. There's no concept of a shutdown pair.

[Bugg]

3 hours ago, Vodka Drunkenski said:

My issue with him is in the defensive zone and the turnovers.  But you can say that for the majority of the defensemen on this team.

Night after night, looks like none of them have any idea how to make a simple competent clearing pass. Lazy mindless blind dump outs that end in turnovers are the norm. 

[Br4d]

3 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Night after night, looks like none of them have any idea how to make a simple competent clearing pass. Lazy mindless blind dump outs that end in turnovers are the norm. 

 

Too many east-west passes in the DZ.  This makes most of the turnovers into wide-open shots from close range.  No idea why they do this.  Trouba and Lindgren are the only D that routinely use the goal as a blocker in the east-west exchange as they bounce passes behind the goal which at least limits the damage some.  Those are the two "responsible" d-men also.

[Pete]

48 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Too many east-west passes in the DZ.  This makes most of the turnovers into wide-open shots from close range.  No idea why they do this.  Trouba and Lindgren are the only D that routinely use the goal as a blocker in the east-west exchange as they bounce passes behind the goal which at least limits the damage some.  Those are the two "responsible" d-men also.

Their role is to move it to their partners, who are the guys who should be moving the puck up ice.

[The Dude]

With all of this said. They all need more maintenance days. Gotta use that 7th D more.

 

If they have no confidence in Jones, its time to cut bait and make the decision to put him on waivers for the purpose of sending him to Hartford,  or take what you can in trade. 

 

A depth D man shouldn't be hard to find. But such a player needs to be used. This teams D men always hit a wall come playoff time. They look dead. They are over worked. They are banged up. Let's avoid this. 

 

Miller took some mental health days. He admitted he needs that. I think that's awesome. Though it didn't look like it helped (hes been brutal since and is contributing nothing offensively (0 points in 10 games, -4),  it is something I think a lot of players need to come to terms with. More importantly, the coaches need to notice the need for days off. 

 

Fox is coming back from a messed up knee.  He too should take some days off. All of em need it. 

 

The Allstar break is coming.  This will give guys much needed rest. But it's also time for Drury and Laviolette to evaluate how to get a 3C and to figure out how to take some stress/ wear and tear off the D men. 

 

[RangersIn7]

17 minutes ago, The Dude said:

With all of this said. They all need more maintenance days. Gotta use that 7th D more.

 

If they have no confidence in Jones, its time to cut bait and make the decision to put him on waivers for the purpose of sending him to Hartford,  or take what you can in trade. 

 

A depth D man shouldn't be hard to find. But such a player needs to be used. This teams D men always hit a wall come playoff time. They look dead. They are over worked. They are banged up. Let's avoid this. 

 

Miller took some mental health days. He admitted he needs that. I think that's awesome. Though it didn't look like it helped (hes been brutal since and is contributing nothing offensively (0 points in 10 games, -4),  it is something I think a lot of players need to come to terms with. More importantly, the coaches need to notice the need for days off. 

 

Fox is coming back from a messed up knee.  He too should take some days off. All of em need it. 

 

The Allstar break is coming.  This will give guys much needed rest. But it's also time for Drury and Laviolette to evaluate how to get a 3C and to figure out how to take some stress/ wear and tear off the D men. 

 

Dude… I agree.

 

But it’s weird. Almost all of them are in this malaise right now.

[Br4d]

Name the Rangers you think of as mentally tough.  Now name the Rangers you think of as physically tough.

 

Not enough of these boys around right now.

[Scott]

Ok, that would be perfect this way we can then start calling Lavy Gallant. Remember how all the players  during their exit interviews wanted to work hard and be coached, they lacked the hard meaningful practices etc. Weren't taught anything, there was no accountability, structure and the list goes on.

 

If Miller has personal issues I'm glad he stepped away. But now all the players need rest during the season, games no less (is this the NBA?).  They get their maintenance days if they need to miss a practice, morning skate.  They're at the halfway mark and they need rest? The reason they're so inconsistent after a flying start is they're tired? (Fox who already missed 10 games!) Rest during the all-star weekend. Stay home with all the blinds down, hibernate, nobody should head out of town. 

 

There's no consistent commitment to whatever it is Lavy is selling.  It's the makeup of the team. Lazy line changes, no D structure, weak zone entries and those famous E-W passes.  Average Igor and we are what we are. A one line team and the rest who on any given night take off.  In the end more of the same.

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

Name the Rangers you think of as mentally tough.  Now name the Rangers you think of as physically tough.

 

Not enough of these boys around right now.

Clarify physically tough

 

[The Dude]

21 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

Ok, that would be perfect this way we can then start calling Lavy Gallant. Remember how all the players  during their exit interviews wanted to work hard and be coached, they lacked the hard meaningful practices etc. Weren't taught anything, there was no accountability, structure and the list goes on.

 

If Miller has personal issues I'm glad he stepped away. But now all the players need rest during the season, games no less (is this the NBA?).  They get their maintenance days if they need to miss a practice, morning skate.  They're at the halfway mark and they need rest? The reason they're so inconsistent after a flying start is they're tired? (Fox who already missed 10 games!) Rest during the all-star weekend. Stay home with all the blinds down, hibernate, nobody should head out of town. 

 

There's no consistent commitment to whatever it is Lavy is selling.  It's the makeup of the team. Lazy line changes, no D structure, weak zone entries and those famous E-W passes.  Average Igor and we are what we are. A one line team and the rest who on any given night take off.  In the end more of the same.

I'd say it's the same league wide. Not just a Ranger thing. Defensemen get banged up. A lot are over worked. 

 

I don't understand how this correlates with GG. GG didn't rest anyone. The team wastes cap space and roster spots on 7th (with Gallant,- 7th and 8th, maybe 9th)  D men that play 5-10 games a season. 

 

You can see come playoff time that they are dragging ass. 

 

I'm not saying this is an issue for fixing whats wrong now. But it's an overall issue. It becomes a problem late in the season. I think this training staff takes injuries a bit more seriously than the last. We are seeing extra (more than we're used to seeing) time given to hurt players. Yet, the fatigue and bumps add up for players.

 

This isn't a coddling thing. It's common sense. It's not about roster make up and fortitude. Years ago Dan Girardi could barely skate by game 1 of the finals. Was he a bitch because he probably didn't have to play every single regular season game?  It's takes a toll on the toughest.

 

There's only so many miles these guys should have to put on the engine.  There's no reason to burn them out.

 

Check out the icetimes for the top 6 forwards and the top 4 D. They play A LOT and it's not necessary.

 

It wasn't what they were doing when they started the season and looked like a well oiled machine.  There is a point where these guys will hit a wall. I'm trying to avoid that with my suggestion. 

 

I'll also add, Fox came back (what seemed like) pretty early considering the injury. Ever think he's not exactly 100%? Is it a good idea to be pushing a guy like that in some of these games? 25-26 minutes on some nights? For what?  Even it out. Lighten the load. Don't be pushing these guys to the max every night. Save that for the playoffs. He doesn't need to play 26 minutes against St.Louis, Montreal or Washington. Shit. He doesn't even have to play. 

 

Maintenance days used to be the norm in the 90s. There'd be nights when coaches would sit a decent player,  because they didn't really need to play against the worst team in the league. They'd also want their extra players to be fresh. So, don't make this into more than what it is I'm suggesting.

 

This was always a thing. It's not a new generation problem. It's not the NBA. 

 

Nowhere did I suggest this is a now problem solution.

 

For that, I definitely think they need to switch up the pairings. I'd suggest less Miller, but I don't want to see him make Schneider look bad (I'm really down on Miller) as there's no way Schneider is surpassing Fox or Trouba.  I guess he's gotta go with Fox. 

 

 

[Br4d]

7 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Clarify physically tough

 

 

Willing to consistently put their body on the line to win a game.

 

I make the list as: Lindgren, Trouba, Trocheck, Cuylle, Bonino, Goodrow, maybe Brodzinski, Vesey and Pitlick.  Assuming you buy my full list that's 1 Forward in the top 6 plus 2D-men plus a few guys in the bottom 6.  In terms of minutes that's a thin lineup when the game turns physical.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

Name the Rangers you think of as mentally tough.  Now name the Rangers you think of as physically tough.

 

Not enough of these boys around right now.

Lindgren 

Panarin 

Trocheck 

Kreider 

Trouba

Bonino

Wheeler 

Vesey 

Goodrow 

Schneider 

Gustafsson 

Now Lafrenière,  but that can change 

 

Are all mentally tough IMO.

 

Define physically tough. Like fighting? Edge? Willingness to play through pain? Hard nosed? Hard on the puck? Constantly takes the body? Crashes the net? Buzz? 

 

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, Br4d said:

 

Willing to consistently put their body on the line to win a game.

 

I make the list as: Lindgren, Trouba, Trocheck, Cuylle, Bonino, Goodrow, maybe Brodzinski, Vesey and Pitlick.  Assuming you buy my full list that's 1 Forward in the top 6 plus 2D-men plus a few guys in the bottom 6.  In terms of minutes that's a thin lineup when the game turns physical.

 

Gotcha. I think the list is close enough, and arguments could be made for Lafreniere and Schneider. Neither shy away from contact.

 

I'm actually more concerned with the mentally tough list. I think that list is very light.

[The Dude]

6 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Willing to consistently put their body on the line to win a game.

 

I make the list as: Lindgren, Trouba, Trocheck, Cuylle, Bonino, Goodrow, maybe Brodzinski, Vesey and Pitlick.  Assuming you buy my full list that's 1 Forward in the top 6 plus 2D-men plus a few guys in the bottom 6.  In terms of minutes that's a thin lineup when the game turns physical.

OK now do Vegas. Do every top team. Not everyone is built like Florida (who I deem a perfect bunch made for the playoffs).. And how'd Florida fair against Vegas? I consider Vegas a bit more like the Rangers than they are Florida. 

 

We all want more jam. I get it. Every team wants that. The Rangers aren't some exclusively overly soft bunch.

 

They've shown signs of being able to play a  brand of hockey that is more structured, that can work in the playoffs. Add some jam at the deadline via a 3C that has atleast a little bit of an edge, add a depth winger with some spunk, a 7th D the coach trusts and they should do fine. 

 

 

[jsm7302]

Would you trade Fox for an elite C/RW? For say....Mitch Marner or Leon Draisaitl?

 

Elite talent swap. I would.

[Br4d]

Lafreniere and Schneider are possible adds.  They both hit when they want too.

[Br4d]

7 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Would you trade Fox for an elite C/RW? For say....Mitch Marner or Leon Draisaitl?

 

Elite talent swap. I would.

 

The problem is that Fox wanted to play here.  He wants to play here over anywhere else.  He's clearly the most marketable asset the Rangers have if they decided to move him but it's going to be a bad move for team chemistry given he's a homeboy.

 

It would send a jolting electric message to the locker room however it's not clear if it would wake the dead or knock them over dead.

[Pete]

Something tells me if you guys watched Draisaitl or Marner every night, you would find something to complain about.

 

Maybe expectations that every single player be perfect and without warts, with the ability to switch on God Mode during the game whenever they feel like it, as if there isn't another team on the ice playing against them... Need to be revisited. 

Edited January 19 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

15 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Would you trade Fox for an elite C/RW? For say....Mitch Marner or Leon Draisaitl?

 

Elite talent swap. I would.

 

Nope. Defensemen of Adam Fox's stature and age rarely, if ever, become available via trade or UFA. There's a reason for that. Elite forwards being available is much more commonly seen, and they don't cost an Adam Fox.

Edited January 19 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Nope. Defensemen of Adam Fox's stature and age rarely, if ever, become available via trade or UFA. There's a reason for that. Elite forwards being available is much more commonly seen, and they don't cost an Adam Fox.

To add to this... There's a very good player out there in Vancouver who scored 39 goals last year and has 8 this year... Has butted heads with the coach and been scratched, but he still hasn't been traded... Because you don't give up on talent that quickly.

 

Now we're talking about trading Fox because he's had a bad 15 games? I'm sorry but that's absolutely ridiculous. 

 

Aside from the fact that right-handed defenseman already have a premium placed on them, never mind number one defenseman who run power plays like he does.

 

Edmonton or Toronto would salivate for a player like Fox. If we traded Fox for a forward, we'd wind up like Edmonton or Toronto. 

 

I can't express within the rules of the forum what a terrible idea it would be. So I'll just say it's an idea I don't like any and I'm vehemently against it. 

[lefty9]

5 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

Fox-Gustafsson

Trouba-Lindgren

Schneider-Miller

 

Gustafsson will be the guy who keeps things moving when Fox is in low energy mode.  It's a classic young-vet pair up.

What happens in the defensive zone with Fox and Gustafsson as a pair

[Pete]

1 minute ago, lefty9 said:

What happens in the defensive zone with Fox and Gustafsson as a pair

Nothing, because it would never happen. There's a reason Gus is a journeyman third pair guy. 

[lefty9]

I agree

[RichieNextel305]

Yeah by no means am I advocating trading Fox. Hope no one took what I said for that. I mean, listen, no one in the league is 10000% untouchable. But this isn’t fantasy hockey, obviously. 
 

Fox is here to stay. As he should be. But again, it’s just one of those things where he, like many other prominent players on this team, are in the middle of a bad rut. 

[BrooksBurner]

27 minutes ago, Pete said:

Nothing, because it would never happen. There's a reason Gus is a journeyman third pair guy. 

He was probably the team’s best defenseman for the first two months of the season that included the month span when Fox was out. He played really well for Laviolette last year, and so far this year. Sometimes players just work for certain coaches and their system regardless of what their team history is. It’s fine he’s been less noticeable getting 15-16 with Schneider instead of 20 in the top 4 with PP time. I’ve actually heard his name very little lately and that’s a good thing for a defenseman.