Vodka Drunkenski Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 6 minutes ago, Pete said: I'd go so far as to say individual players are not really the problem with this team, unless you're talking about the gaping hole at 3C. Their approach and mindset, all of which are fixable, are what's holding this team back. It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with committing to the system. That’s why I think something big needs to happen with the core, it’s just not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 11 minutes ago, Pete said: I'd go so far as to say individual players are not really the problem with this team, unless you're talking about the gaping hole at 3C. Their approach and mindset, all of which are fixable, are what's holding this team back. It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with committing to the system. I think talent wise, this group of Rangers is on par with any group most of us have seen in our lifetimes. On the surface, you’re talking about a team that has a Vezina Winner, a Norris Winner, a winger who continually paces amongst the best when it comes to points per game, another winger who has a 50-goal season on his resume, a 30-40 G scoring first line center and your prototypical do-everything 2nd line center. On top of it, you have a Cup winning coach, a core that’s been through just about everything together and good secondary and supplemental pieces to follow behind. There really is little question whether or not the talent is there. Or the blend, because we’ve seen the way they look when they’re clicking. Like you said, it may have a lot to do with the collective will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 23 minutes ago, Vodka Drunkenski said: That’s why I think something big needs to happen with the core, it’s just not working. If there's any member of the core who needs to be jettisoned, it's the one who's been here the longest. Kreider. He's too comfortable with failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, Pete said: If there's any member of the core who needs to be jettisoned, it's the one who's been here the longest. Kreider. He's too comfortable with failure. I agree, there’s a reason he’s never been made captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 31 minutes ago, Pete said: I'd go so far as to say individual players are not really the problem with this team, unless you're talking about the gaping hole at 3C. Their approach and mindset, all of which are fixable, are what's holding this team back. It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with committing to the system. Wouldn’t you say not committing is at an individual level though? It might not even be a matter of committment either. Some guys just might not “get it”. Maybe they are slower learners, or maybe they don’t process the game quick enough and are a weak link. It’s up to the coaches and GM to come together and make the determination of who isn’t working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 56 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said: I think talent wise, this group of Rangers is on par with any group most of us have seen in our lifetimes. On the surface, you’re talking about a team that has a Vezina Winner, a Norris Winner, a winger who continually paces amongst the best when it comes to points per game, another winger who has a 50-goal season on his resume, a 30-40 G scoring first line center and your prototypical do-everything 2nd line center. On top of it, you have a Cup winning coach, a core that’s been through just about everything together and good secondary and supplemental pieces to follow behind. There really is little question whether or not the talent is there. Or the blend, because we’ve seen the way they look when they’re clicking. Like you said, it may have a lot to do with the collective will. The depth isn't there to win a cup at this point. Too many AHLers moving in and out of the picture. Too many good 4th liners getting exposed on the 3rd line from game to game. No 3C, no 1RW, too many incoherencies in the lineup and too much defensive indifference which is why we're where we are right now. I think from a talent perspective it's easy to overlook the fact that the depth isn't there and some of the headliners have real question marks attached to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said: What’s laughable is you putting “fans” in quotes as if you know more than other people. Lighten up pal. Again, the thread wasn’t made to torch the guy, advocate trading him, or anything of the sort. It was made to discuss how he, like other star players on this team at the moment, aren’t playing their best hockey and to discuss. I’m sorry if the subject is sensitive to you, but objective conversations are allowed to be had about any players. We do it with Kreider. We do it with Igor. We’ve done it with Panarin in the past. We can’t do it with Fox? Why? Like Vodka has said, no one here is saying he isn’t an incredible player and incredible talent. But I’m not sure what games you’re watching if you believe this version of Fox is on par with the version from just 2 years ago. That’s not to say it won’t come back or that he’s regressed. It’s just to say he’s not playing his best hockey right now. I didn’t know that was such a crime to say. I’m not the guy who is critique a Norris trophy player and suggesting he’s a flawed player and then pointing out the flaws in his game— but somehow I’m the one coming across as the “know it all.” If you’d like to suggest that Fox is not a perfect player I’m on board but no one is perfect and he’s about as close to a perfect NHL defender in 2024. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said: Edited January 20 by JHS Multiple posts by accident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said: Multiple posts- please delete Edited January 20 by JHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) Multiple post Edited January 20 by JHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said: Wouldn’t you say not committing is at an individual level though? It might not even be a matter of committment either. Some guys just might not “get it”. Maybe they are slower learners, or maybe they don’t process the game quick enough and are a weak link. It’s up to the coaches and GM to come together and make the determination of who isn’t working. I'm not ready to go there yet. I'm talking specifically about people here suggesting individual players like Mika, Fox, Panarin, etc change anything about what's made them successful thus far. All of them only need to do one thing differently, and that's shoot the puck more, and that's coming from the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 (edited) 33 minutes ago, JHS said: I’m not the guy who is critique a Norris trophy player and suggesting he’s a flawed player and then pointing out the flaws in his game— but somehow I’m the one coming across as the “know it all.” If you’d like to suggest that Fox is not a perfect player I’m on board but no one is perfect and he’s about as close to a perfect NHL defender in 2024. So wait a second. Since he won a Norris Trophy a few years ago, his play is free of critique the rest of his career? Igor won a Vezina Trophy 2 years ago. We’re able to talk about him not playing well this year, are we not? You come across as a know it all when you put quotes around the word fans, as if you know more and are more invested in this than someone who’s opinion is different than yours. Edited January 20 by RichieNextel305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 30 minutes ago, Pete said: I'm not ready to go there yet. I'm talking specifically about people here suggesting individual players like Mika, Fox, Panarin, etc change anything about what's made them successful thus far. All of them only need to do one thing differently, and that's shoot the puck more, and that's coming from the coach. That’s fair. I’m more of the summer mindset myself in terms of weeding out who doesn’t fit. I don’t think half a season is quite enough time to be labeling fits/misfits, but I have my suspicions that I’m waiting on til later if they hold. Agree on shooting in general, but not for Panarin. He’s shooting more than enough now. Zero complaints there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: That’s fair. I’m more of the summer mindset myself in terms of weeding out who doesn’t fit. I don’t think half a season is quite enough time to be labeling fits/misfits, but I have my suspicions that I’m waiting on til later if they hold. Agree on shooting in general, but not for Panarin. He’s shooting more than enough now. Zero complaints there. Agree, when we debated this at the end of last year I always said that this was the year to blow it up if they flamed out. Lavvy has shown that he is a superior tactician to GG, and I said if they didn't have success this season you would have to look to the roster. It didn't make sense to look to the roster when they weren't getting coached. If they shit the bed again, there's only four or five guys I would consider untouchable. And a couple of those names fluctuate. Edited January 20 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 3 minutes ago, Pete said: Agree, when we debated this at the end of last year I always said that this was the year to blow it up if they flamed out. Lavvy has shown that he is a superior tactician to GG, and I said if they didn't have success this season you would have to look to the roster. It didn't make sense to look to the roster when they weren't getting coached. If they shit the bed again, there's only four or five guys I would consider untouchable. And a couple of those names fluctuate. I agree. But my question is this, because it varies from person to person as far as who I ask because I have discussed this with other people. But for you, what would you label as shit the bed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 28 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said: I agree. But my question is this, because it varies from person to person as far as who I ask because I have discussed this with other people. But for you, what would you label as shit the bed? I don't really judge by what round they go out in as long as they're competitive. Sometimes you just lose to a better team. That's really what happened against Tampa, but it's not what happened against the Devils. It's one of those things where I can't exactly put a measurement on it right now, but I'll know it when I see it. If they go out and compete and just get beaten by a better team, my opinion would be a lot different than if they look completely lost and overmatched. Edited January 20 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 4 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said: So wait a second. Since he won a Norris Trophy a few years ago, his play is free of critique the rest of his career? Igor won a Vezina Trophy 2 years ago. We’re able to talk about him not playing well this year, are we not? You come across as a know it all when you put quotes around the word fans, as if you know more and are more invested in this than someone who’s opinion is different than yours. I’m not a know it all but I also did not start a thread about one of the best defensemen in the league. I challenged your assertion with a different opinion, I thought that’s what this whole forum is about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Just now, JHS said: I’m not a know it all but I also did not start a thread about one of the best defensemen in the league. I challenged your assertion with a different opinion, I thought that’s what this whole forum is about? A know it all is someone who thinks they know more than others. Putting the word fan in quotes? That says a lot. Plenty here challenge Igor as an elite goalie in this league. He’s won a Vezina. What does that say for them? I didn’t know winning a Norris a few years ago absolves you from any wrongdoing for the rest of someone’s career. Now I do. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richter35 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 7 hours ago, Vodka Drunkenski said: I agree, there’s a reason he’s never been made captain What is the consensus as to why he wasn't ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said: A know it all is someone who thinks they know more than others. Putting the word fan in quotes? That says a lot. Plenty here challenge Igor as an elite goalie in this league. He’s won a Vezina. What does that say for them? I didn’t know winning a Norris a few years ago absolves you from any wrongdoing for the rest of someone’s career. Now I do. Thank you. Listen man- you might be a “fan” but you also are the one who is actively questioning the skill set of a proven player and went out of your way to start a thread about one of the most proven NHL Defensemen out there. Your actions speak for themselves. I questioned you, told you it was absurd and proved my point over and over- you got offended and are now making it personal. That’s fine— I don’t know you and honestly you don’t know me. I’m a humble guy but I’m not afraid to point out absurd takes. Edited January 21 by JHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Yoooooo for once @Pete and I don't have to provide the entertainment around here 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 (edited) 10 minutes ago, JHS said: Listen man- you might be a “fan” but you also are the one who is actively questioning the skill set of a proven player and went out of your way to start a thread about one of the most proven NHL Defensemen out there. Your actions speak for themselves. I questioned you, told you it was absurd and proved my point over and over- you got offended and are now making it personal. That’s fine— I don’t know you and honestly you don’t know me. I’m a humble guy but I’m not afraid to point out absurd takes. You proved your point over and over? By doing what? Pointing out that he’s elite and has won an award? Kudos to you, don’t know what this fanbase would do without people like you. By your standards, no player should be discussed, since they’re all proven commodities? I guess us “fans” should probably close up shop. Nothing more for us to discuss. You proved nothing outside of the fact you’re a fan that doesn’t really follow all that closely by being someone who can’t be receptive to the fact that all players, including your favorites, can be put under the microscope when they’re not playing well, such as Fox right now. Its “fans” like you who make it tough for constructive conversations to take place. It’s “fans” like you who act as if some players can walk on water while others can’t. You haven’t proven a thing. You’ve said Fox is elite; I’ve stated that from the start. You’ve said Fox is at the top of his class; I’ve said that from the start. Maybe “fans” like you need to learn how to read the entirety of a post? All I said was Adam Fox isn’t playing as well as Adam Fox of yesteryear played. It’s not really much of a debate more than it’s a fact that many “fans” who have watched this team day in and day out over the last few years would agree with. And yet again, no “fans” here are advocating any type of movement or anything of the sort. Is that good? Is that ok for you, true “fan” or is more needed? Again, you’ve proven nothing. Edited January 21 by RichieNextel305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 11 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Yoooooo for once @Pete and I don't have to provide the entertainment around here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 10 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said: You proved your point over and over? By doing what? Pointing out that he’s elite and has won an award? Kudos to you, don’t know what this fanbase would do without people like you. By your standards, no player should be discussed, since they’re all proven commodities? I guess us “fans” should probably close up shop. Nothing more for us to discuss. You proved nothing outside of the fact you’re a fan that doesn’t really follow all that closely by being someone who can’t be receptive to the fact that all players, including your favorites, can be put under the microscope when they’re not playing well, such as Fox right now. Its “fans” like you who make it tough for constructive conversations to take place. It’s “fans” like you who act as if some players can walk on water while others can’t. You haven’t proven a thing. You’ve said Fox is elite; I’ve stated that from the start. You’ve said Fox is at the top of his class; I’ve said that from the start. Maybe “fans” like you need to learn how to read the entirety of a post? All I said was Adam Fox isn’t playing as well as Adam Fox of yesteryear played. It’s not really much of a debate more than it’s a fact that many “fans” who have watched this team day in and day out over the last few years would agree with. And yet again, no “fans” here are advocating any type of movement or anything of the sort. Is that good? Is that ok for you, true “fan” or is more needed? Again, you’ve proven nothing. Man you are one sensitive guy. Must be tough to be so devoted to a team that when anyone dares point out you truly absurd take on a player that will likely go down in the top 10 defensemen in franchise history you go out of your way to attack the guy who does it. Your post originally had to have an intro paragraph in which you yourself made exactly the same points I’ve made to point out you are totally wrong on Fox. You recognized that he’s got incredible attributes that make him a major contributor and important piece to the team. Let me give you a little tip, if you have to preface your argument by making a counter point right away( assuming you did that because you knew it was an absurd assertion you were going to make) maybe you should just stop the post right there. In my book, similarly absurd arguments to yours would be: 1. Hank was an average goalie because he never won a cup 2. Messier was an average leader because he only produced one cup for the Rangers 3. Brian Leetch was an average defensemen because he too was prone to turning the puck over. Proving my point has to do with how absurdly bad your take is on Fox and for even suggesting the guy is a problem. If every other NHL team wants the guy you have and literally every GM in the league would say “sure what do you want from our organization” if you called an offered Fox to them then you simply have no point. It’s ok to be completely wrong- I’ve been in the past( many times) and you may not like it when someone tells you that( few people do) but I sense you are arguing with me because you assume I don’t know much( I don’t have to go into my hockey resume—let’s sum it up—it includes over 25 years involvement in the very youth league Fox began his hockey playing in) and you recognize me you were entirely off base making the points you did at the start. Fox does not need my help to prove you wrong— he’s already done that and will continue to do that for his entire career. With that in mind, enjoy your thread. Edited January 21 by JHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, JHS said: Man you are one sensitive guy. Must be tough to be so devoted to a team that when anyone dares point out you truly absurd take on a player that will likely go down in the top 10 defensemen in franchise history you go out of your way to attack the guy who does it. Your post originally had to have an intro paragraph in which you yourself made exactly the same points I’ve made to point out you are totally wrong on Fox. You recognized that he’s got incredible attributes that make him a major contributor and important piece to the team. Let me give you a little tip, if you have to preface your argument by making a counter point right away( assuming you did that because you knew it was an absurd assertion you were going to make) maybe you should just stop the post right there. In my book, similarly absurd arguments to yours would be: 1. Hank was an average goalie because he never won a cup 2. Messier was an average leader because he only produced one cup for the Rangers 3. Brian Leetch was an average defensemen because he too was prone to turning the puck over. Proving my point has to do with how absurdly bad your take is on Fox and for even suggesting the guy is a problem. If every other NHL team wants the guy you have and literally every GM in the league would say “sure what do you want from our organization” if you called an offered Fox to them then you simply have no point. It’s ok to be completely wrong- I’ve been in the past( many times) and you may not like it when someone tells you that( few people do) but I sense you are arguing with me because you assume I don’t know much( I don’t have to go into my hockey resume—let’s sum it up—it includes over 25 years involvement in the very youth league Fox began his hockey playing in) and you recognize me you were entirely off base making the points you did at the start. Fox does not need my help to prove you wrong— he’s already done that and will continue to do that for his entire career. With that in mind, enjoy your thread. Completely wrong? LOL. I wish we all had the knowledge of hockey you do. “Great players are always playing great because they’re, well, great! Wow!” Speaking of sensitive, who keeps coming back time and time again? Congratulations watching youth hockey for 25 years. That’s some fantastic stuff. My hats off to you. All you’ve done is prove how objectively wrong you could be while hardly watching the individual player. And I’m pretty sure your reading comprehension is at an all-time low. Because you keep acting like Adam Fox has to prove me wrong. As if I’m saying the guy is trash, has always been trash and we need to dump him immediately. Did some of those 25 years of behind the bench for the youth feature years spent with Fox? Because someone is hysterically obsessed with defending his honor here… Once more, for the people having difficulty reading here and being objective and instead throwing their immaculate hockey resume down on the table for everyone to see: This was not a flame thread on Adam Fox. Adam Fox is a fucking stud. Even on his worst day, he’s a Top-10 defenseman in this league. He is easily one of the best PP QB’s in the sport. His hockey IQ is through the roof. His playmaking is top tier and there isn’t a team in this league that wouldn’t be drooling to have him on their blueline. ALL OF THAT BEING SAID…. …..even great players, like Fox, go through ruts. Even Norris winning defensemen go through stretches where they aren’t playing their best hockey. And (ready for this wild take?) it’s perfectly fine for fans (I’m sorry I forgot the quotes) to acknowledge it and discuss it. Igor has won a Vezina in this league. Is Igor playing at that same level right now? Absolutely not. Is it discussed? You bet. Same with Fox. I never said I need him to prove me wrong or anyone wrong or that he’s trash. I just said his play has slipped from the level it was at a few years ago. Agree. Disagree. I couldn’t give a shit less. But to act like your opinion is right and others opinions are wrong, and to laugh it off as absurd? Sorry, not the way things fly over here. Even if you do coach for or against the LI Gulls. I hope you’re able to comprehend and “read” (damn, had to slide the quotes in somewhere) this instead of jumping to conclusions and explaining to us why you know better than others because you have taught kids how to do relay drills at a local youth rink. I’m glad you were able to read my opening paragraph. I hope your eyes are able to read this post too. Edited January 21 by RichieNextel305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now