jsm7302 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Pete said: Something tells me if you guys watched Draisaitl or Marner every night, you would find something to complain about. Maybe expectations that every single player be perfect and without warts, with the ability to switch on God Mode during the game whenever they feel like it, as if there isn't another team on the ice playing against them... Need to be revisited. Fox is dynamic and fun to watch UNTIL they zoom in and he looks disinterested. His facial expressions are probably misinterpreted by me but they drive me nuts. With that said, I do appreciate what he brings to this team; I hope this thread gets buried to be unearthed post season hopefully post Cup parade but if not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 9 minutes ago, jsm7302 said: Fox is dynamic and fun to watch UNTIL they zoom in and he looks disinterested. His facial expressions are probably misinterpreted by me but they drive me nuts. With that said, I do appreciate what he brings to this team; I hope this thread gets buried to be unearthed post season hopefully post Cup parade but if not..... I get what you're saying, however I would never trade a Norris defenseman because of his resting bitch face. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, Pete said: I get what you're saying, however I would never trade a Norris defenseman because of his resting bitch face. It’s probably difficult not to have a resting bitch face with a chin like that 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delneggs Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I agree with your assessment that he looks lazy at times, like he isn't giving his all. He is not that fast skater in the world and never has been but this season he looks slower and more lethargic, especially in the D zone. I don't know if it's a physical issue or not but it's definitely concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 19 hours ago, Sharpshooter said: His hockey IQ might not be the best, but he still finds a way to be about a point per game player in this league. Not bad. lol Literally every hockey expert says he’s probably the highest hockey IQ player on the roster and maybe in the league. To be an effective small defensemen you have to be. I’ll take their word over yours. This thread is absurd. Literally every NHL team would give away most players on their roster to have Fox. His one negative( a propensity to turn the puck over) is a by product of how many incredible plays he tries to make. I get that it’s the middle of the season and topics might be hard to come up with but… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, JHS said: Literally every hockey expert says he’s probably the highest hockey IQ player on the roster and maybe in the league. To be an effective small defensemen you have to be. I’ll take their word over yours. This thread is absurd. Literally every NHL team would give away most players on their roster to have Fox. His one negative( a propensity to turn the puck over) is a by product of how many incredible plays he tries to make. I get that it’s the middle of the season and topics might be hard to come up with but… If it’s absurd, simply don’t comment. Simple as that. Plenty of points have been discussed here to say that this is a topic warrant of a discussion. If you think Fox hasn’t fallen off the trajectory he was on a few years ago, then I don’t know what to tell you. Again, no one is saying to bail on him or that he is the sole reason we’re playing like an inconsistent pile of shit at the moment. But again, the problem with this fanbase is that it’s almost against the rules to call out favorites when they’re simply not playing up to snuff. And to some, Fox hasn’t been himself. And for a while. Disagree? Cool. Calling other people’s opinions absurd isn’t going to fly here. So do us all a favor, and if you can’t contribute to the discussion, leave it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 33 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said: If it’s absurd, simply don’t comment. Simple as that. Plenty of points have been discussed here to say that this is a topic warrant of a discussion. If you think Fox hasn’t fallen off the trajectory he was on a few years ago, then I don’t know what to tell you. Again, no one is saying to bail on him or that he is the sole reason we’re playing like an inconsistent pile of shit at the moment. But again, the problem with this fanbase is that it’s almost against the rules to call out favorites when they’re simply not playing up to snuff. And to some, Fox hasn’t been himself. And for a while. Disagree? Cool. Calling other people’s opinions absurd isn’t going to fly here. So do us all a favor, and if you can’t contribute to the discussion, leave it. To be fair, there are people in this thread who did say they'd trade Fox. I think we also (as a group on this forum) need to realize the sprinkling of "absurdity" of a group of folks on the internet, many of whom have never played or coached any sport let alone hockey, telling players in the NHL what they "need to do to be better." Now add the calibre of player ... Fox a Norris winner, Panarin one of the most productive LW since he signed, Zib a 40g 2 way center, Kreider a 50g scorer... And people here are giving them direction? It's like watching a TV show and you have to suspend your disbelief for certain aspects of it that you know would never happen ... We have to accept that it is absurd for anybody here to be giving any of those players advice or telling them how they should play their game. But that's what fans do, and it's all in good fun. I think the position that's probably more acceptable is "I wish player X would do this" instead of "player X needs to do this to be better". I wish Kreider would use his size in speed, but he doesn't. And he still scores 50... So, yea. Edited January 20 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, JHS said: Literally every hockey expert says he’s probably the highest hockey IQ player on the roster and maybe in the league. To be an effective small defensemen you have to be. I’ll take their word over yours. This thread is absurd. Literally every NHL team would give away most players on their roster to have Fox. His one negative( a propensity to turn the puck over) is a by product of how many incredible plays he tries to make. I get that it’s the middle of the season and topics might be hard to come up with but… I would figure a player with such high IQ would know better to make all those turnovers trying to force plays. But you do you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Vodka Drunkenski said: I would figure a player with such high IQ would know better to make all those turnovers trying to force plays. But you do you That's reductive and you know it. Take a look at the league leaders and giveaways. Are you suggesting that they don't have high Hockey IQs? Because it's a list of some of the best players in the league, plus Matheson who just sucks. https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=realtime&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20232024&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=giveaways&page=0&pageSize=50 The giveaway number is high because they're trying things no one else is, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Edited January 20 by Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletch Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 17 hours ago, Br4d said: Name the Rangers you think of as mentally tough. Now name the Rangers you think of as physically tough. Not enough of these boys around right now. This is a GM complaint in roster construction and the no move clauses (Panarin, Zib, Kreider, Trocheck, NTC Goodrow) for the next 3+ seasons (and how the hell did Wheeler get a NTC!?!). Our core vets are locked in unless bought out, or the franchise stops being a playoff contender and is performing so badly that they want to leave. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers This is a coach/organizational complaint about not using healthy scratches or other ways to get better effort, making physical plays around both nets, on the forecheck and backcheck, and responsible active play in the defensive zone. I don't necessarily worry too much about a 7-1 drubbing in a mid-week game in the regular season. I do care if bad habits during the regular season carry over to the playoffs, and we get eliminated because the opponents are able to elevate their game higher for the playoffs than our core veterans do. If we were able to do a roster swap (ignoring no move clauses), and you acquired a player like Joel Eriksson Ek (Wild) at 5.25 million and 26 years old and had to sacrifice Kreider at 6.5 million and 32 years old. If you moved Zib to wing and asked him to do a Panarin transformation (shooting more often)... I would argue that Eriksson Ek would be a better fit for the current roster because he is a pest around the net, loves physical contact, is going to get dirty goals, and irritates the other team. If you don't want to move Zib to wing, you can find a better example of a wing on another NHL roster to keep Zib at center. My point is that we've got an abundance of perimeter play-makers. The coach has got to figure out the best strategy for a roster core that has been locked in by the organization. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/wild https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/stats/_/id/3904091/joel-eriksson ek https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/stats/_/id/5833 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, fletch said: This is a GM complaint in roster construction and the no move clauses (Panarin, Zib, Kreider, Trocheck, NTC Goodrow) for the next 3+ seasons (and how the hell did Wheeler get a NTC!?!). Our core vets are locked in unless bought out, or the franchise stops being a playoff contender and is performing so badly that they want to leave. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers This is a coach/organizational complaint about not using healthy scratches or other ways to get better effort, making physical plays around both nets, on the forecheck and backcheck, and responsible active play in the defensive zone. I don't necessarily worry too much about a 7-1 drubbing in a mid-week game in the regular season. I do care if bad habits during the regular season carry over to the playoffs, and we get eliminated because the opponents are able to elevate their game higher for the playoffs than our core veterans do. If we were able to do a roster swap (ignoring no move clauses), and you acquired a player like Joel Eriksson Ek (Wild) at 5.25 million and 26 years old and had to sacrifice Kreider at 6.5 million and 32 years old. If you moved Zib to wing and asked him to do a Panarin transformation (shooting more often)... I would argue that Eriksson Ek would be a better fit for the current roster because he is a pest around the net, loves physical contact, is going to get dirty goals, and irritates the other team. If you don't want to move Zib to wing, you can find a better example of a wing on another NHL roster to keep Zib at center. My point is that we've got an abundance of perimeter play-makers. The coach has got to figure out the best strategy for a roster core that has been locked in by the organization. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/wild https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/stats/_/id/3904091/joel-eriksson ek https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/stats/_/id/5833 Wheeler got trade protection because he came here for the league minimum basically and moved his family across the continent to a new country. Willing to guess he didn't want to get traded, and for one year it's not a big deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said: If it’s absurd, simply don’t comment. Simple as that. Plenty of points have been discussed here to say that this is a topic warrant of a discussion. If you think Fox hasn’t fallen off the trajectory he was on a few years ago, then I don’t know what to tell you. Again, no one is saying to bail on him or that he is the sole reason we’re playing like an inconsistent pile of shit at the moment. But again, the problem with this fanbase is that it’s almost against the rules to call out favorites when they’re simply not playing up to snuff. And to some, Fox hasn’t been himself. And for a while. Disagree? Cool. Calling other people’s opinions absurd isn’t going to fly here. So do us all a favor, and if you can’t contribute to the discussion, leave it. No the problem with this fan base is people call out a guy who’s constantly in the top 5 offensive production defensemen players in the NHL as some sort of a problem- my god if you can’t see how that’s a laughable assertion than that’s on you. Sadly often it takes counter opinions to point out how crazy some of the assertions are. Furthermore there are no suggestions offered to how to “fix” this “problem.” Should they trade him? Bench him? Play him less?? I mean if he’s such an issue maybe the Rangers should move him now before he goes the Lias Anderson or Kravtsov trajectory… The reality with Fox is he’s an incredible talent, the reason the team is in the top 5 in the NHL for points, constantly has a top performing powerplay and honestly has a lot to do with the teams success for the past several seasons. Give the guy a break- he’s allowed to have an off game or a slump every now and then without “fans” looking to jump on him for not being perfect. Edited January 20 by JHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 24 minutes ago, Vodka Drunkenski said: I would figure a player with such high IQ would know better to make all those turnovers trying to force plays. But you do you How about all the incredible passes he makes? No you are right he never makes a great play out there and constantly just gives the puck to the other team- of course. Literally laughable to call him out for the turnovers and exclude any indication the guy meaningfully changes games with his on ice vision, passing skills and ability to breakup plays on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Pete said: That's reductive and you know it. Take a look at the league leaders and giveaways. Are you suggesting that they don't have high Hockey IQs? Because it's a list of some of the best players in the league, plus Matheson who just sucks. https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=realtime&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20232024&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=giveaways&page=0&pageSize=50 The giveaway number is high because they're trying things no one else is, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Giving the puck away in the offensive zone trying to be creative at times is fine, it’s when he does it in the defensive zone is when it’s a problem, usually turns into a high scoring chance, goal or penalty that brings on the resting bitch face in the box. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, JHS said: How about all the incredible passes he makes? No you are right he never makes a great play out there and constantly just gives the puck to the other team- of course. Literally laughable to call him out for the turnovers and exclude any indication the guy meaningfully changes games with his on ice vision, passing skills and ability to breakup plays on defense. I’m sorry, where did I say he doesn’t make great plays. What’s laughable is that someone isn’t able to critique something about a player that they can clean up, most importantly in the defensive zone. And as I already said earlier in this thread, it’s the majority of the defensemen making bonehead plays in the defensive zone, not just him. Edited January 20 by Vodka Drunkenski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, fletch said: This is a GM complaint in roster construction and the no move clauses (Panarin, Zib, Kreider, Trocheck, NTC Goodrow) for the next 3+ seasons (and how the hell did Wheeler get a NTC!?!). Our core vets are locked in unless bought out, or the franchise stops being a playoff contender and is performing so badly that they want to leave. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers This is a coach/organizational complaint about not using healthy scratches or other ways to get better effort, making physical plays around both nets, on the forecheck and backcheck, and responsible active play in the defensive zone. I don't necessarily worry too much about a 7-1 drubbing in a mid-week game in the regular season. I do care if bad habits during the regular season carry over to the playoffs, and we get eliminated because the opponents are able to elevate their game higher for the playoffs than our core veterans do. If we were able to do a roster swap (ignoring no move clauses), and you acquired a player like Joel Eriksson Ek (Wild) at 5.25 million and 26 years old and had to sacrifice Kreider at 6.5 million and 32 years old. If you moved Zib to wing and asked him to do a Panarin transformation (shooting more often)... I would argue that Eriksson Ek would be a better fit for the current roster because he is a pest around the net, loves physical contact, is going to get dirty goals, and irritates the other team. If you don't want to move Zib to wing, you can find a better example of a wing on another NHL roster to keep Zib at center. My point is that we've got an abundance of perimeter play-makers. The coach has got to figure out the best strategy for a roster core that has been locked in by the organization. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/wild https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/stats/_/id/3904091/joel-eriksson ek https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/stats/_/id/5833 When the player core is locked in the coaches suffer because they can't make necessary adjustments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 We have one feasible method of breaking up the current core if we want too after the season. Get Kreider's list and trade him. That might loosen Mika up if the Rangers wanted to nuke from orbit to change the team identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 21 minutes ago, Br4d said: We have one feasible method of breaking up the current core if we want too after the season. Get Kreider's list and trade him. That might loosen Mika up if the Rangers wanted to nuke from orbit to change the team identity. I think there's an argument to be made that just separating the two of them might make the team better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHS Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 59 minutes ago, Vodka Drunkenski said: I’m sorry, where did I say he doesn’t make great plays. What’s laughable is that someone isn’t able to critique something about a player that they can clean up, most importantly in the defensive zone. And as I already said earlier in this thread, it’s the majority of the defensemen making bonehead plays in the defensive zone, not just him. As was correctly pointed out to you already up above by someone else, when you try and make creative plays turnovers are going to happen. Despite what you might believe, every defensemen turns the puck over. It’s not a reason to get on him. He’s an incredible player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 10 minutes ago, JHS said: As was correctly pointed out to you already up above by someone else, when you try and make creative plays turnovers are going to happen. Despite what you might believe, every defensemen turns the puck over. It’s not a reason to get on him. He’s an incredible player. I guess you only read what fits your narrative and must’ve missed where I said giving away the puck in the offensive zone trying to be creative is fine, it’s when it’s in the defensive zone that it’s a problem. Also, if you actually read the post that you quoted, you can clearly see that I said other defensemen are doing the same thing, but this thread is about Fox so I’m commenting about him. I never said he wasn’t an incredible player. I’m sure you will try to continue to twist my words some more though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, JHS said: How about all the incredible passes he makes? No you are right he never makes a great play out there and constantly just gives the puck to the other team- of course. Literally laughable to call him out for the turnovers and exclude any indication the guy meaningfully changes games with his on ice vision, passing skills and ability to breakup plays on defense. What’s laughable is you putting “fans” in quotes as if you know more than other people. Lighten up pal. Again, the thread wasn’t made to torch the guy, advocate trading him, or anything of the sort. It was made to discuss how he, like other star players on this team at the moment, aren’t playing their best hockey and to discuss. I’m sorry if the subject is sensitive to you, but objective conversations are allowed to be had about any players. We do it with Kreider. We do it with Igor. We’ve done it with Panarin in the past. We can’t do it with Fox? Why? Like Vodka has said, no one here is saying he isn’t an incredible player and incredible talent. But I’m not sure what games you’re watching if you believe this version of Fox is on par with the version from just 2 years ago. That’s not to say it won’t come back or that he’s regressed. It’s just to say he’s not playing his best hockey right now. I didn’t know that was such a crime to say. Edited January 20 by RichieNextel305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 4 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said: If it’s absurd, simply don’t comment. Simple as that. Plenty of points have been discussed here to say that this is a topic warrant of a discussion. If you think Fox hasn’t fallen off the trajectory he was on a few years ago, then I don’t know what to tell you. Again, no one is saying to bail on him or that he is the sole reason we’re playing like an inconsistent pile of shit at the moment. But again, the problem with this fanbase is that it’s almost against the rules to call out favorites when they’re simply not playing up to snuff. And to some, Fox hasn’t been himself. And for a while. Disagree? Cool. Calling other people’s opinions absurd isn’t going to fly here. So do us all a favor, and if you can’t contribute to the discussion, leave it. Fair points IMO. From my POV though, I think there’s been enough uncharacteristic mistakes to notice, but it feels like focusing on a few treatable weeds in the lawn while the house is on fire. Look at the other best defensemen in the league, what their teams are doing, who their partners are, etc. Makar skates with a 50+ point defenseman. Quinn Hughes skating with a guy who is almost at 40 pts already. Ryan Lindgren has 7 pts. World of difference. It’s actually quite amazing what Fox has done over the years without a high quality partner, and that’s not meant as a slight to Lindgren. He’s really valuable to this team, and what a great job serving as the team’s top LD option through the years we have been really thin, but he’s not the right partner for Fox anymore if you want to see Fox elevate to an even greater level. Edited January 20 by BrooksBurner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Fair points IMO. From my POV though, I think there’s been enough uncharacteristic mistakes to notice, but it feels like focusing on a few treatable weeds in the lawn while the house is on fire. Look at the other best defensemen in the league, what their teams are doing, who their partners are, etc. Makar skates with a 50+ point defenseman. Quinn Hughes skating with a guy who is almost at 40 pts already. Ryan Lindgren has 7 pts. World of difference. It’s actually quite amazing what Fox has done over the years without a high quality partner, and that’s not meant as a slight to Lindgren. He’s really valuable to this team, and what a great job serving as the team’s top LD option through the years we have been really thin, but he’s not the right partner for Fox anymore if you want to see him elevate to an even greater level. While you have valid points, one could say there are many few treatable weeds that make it look like the house is on fire. Also, maybe Lindgren’s game allows Fox to be more free with his play. Idk, I’m bored today so don’t mind me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) I'd go so far as to say individual players are not really the problem with this team, unless you're talking about the gaping hole at 3C. Their approach and mindset, all of which are fixable, are what's holding this team back. It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with committing to the system. Edited January 20 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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