Rangers Acquire Patrick Kane From Blackhawks for 2023 Conditional 2nd Round Pick and a 4th Round Pick

[Long live the King]

32 minutes ago, Pete said:

I understand why you feel that way, but I just don't agree that they would have been better with somebody like Kakko in that role. Because that's what would have happened.

 

I keep asking for Goodrow on that Panarin line because he's exactly what they need, somebody who's going to hunt pucks in the corners, but also drag them into the fight and make sure they feel like they have somebody on the ice to stick up for them (them being Bread and Chytil).

 

That said, if you had Kane and Bread together, they would need a Kadri like C to compliment that. Maybe a Horvat. Not a Trocheck. 

 

My point is there's no point in saying that it was a failure, there were too many outside factors. Maybe Bread thought Kane could do things Kane just couldn't do with his injury, maybe they were looking for each other too much in the beginning, but the fact that they were kept together for 5 minutes didn't help anything.

 

Even when Kane was showing some vibe with Zib, it got taken apart. 

 

I don't think people understand how big a problem GG was here. I've made some long posts about it, and seemingly small things have huge cascading effects. You think changing line combinations or even swapping right wings is a small change, but it's actually a pretty big change for a team with no system. That means you're going to get a right wing on your line who might not be doing what the last right wing on your line was doing. That's why systems are important. Everybody needs to know what their responsibilities are on the ice at all times, and the Rangers just haven't had that for 2 years, which is why oftentimes they look confused and disjointed.

 

When you boil it down, GG really had two problems which alone might not have been such a big deal, but when you combine them they wound up being a very big deal. You want to coach who changes lines all the time, that's fine as long as there's a strong system in place to dictate players position. If you don't have a strong system, you better leave those lines together so that they can gel and develop chemistry and understand where everybody is going to be. It just so happens that pairs like Zib/CK and Bread/Strome had some really organic chemistry and they think the game the same way.

 

But they decided they would rather have Trocheck. And at the end of the season, I'm not sure they're a better team. The powerplay certainly wasn't better, and Trocheck had one point in the playoffs and was 47% in the dot. But that doesn't get talked about, even though it was widely speculated that he was a massive upgrade and would be a 75 point player with Panarin. 

 

 

In my opinion, I still think Drury made the right move with Tro over Strome.  GG was the issue.  This is Drury's chance to make it work.

[Pete]

29 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

In my opinion, I still think Drury made the right move with Tro over Strome.  GG was the issue.  This is Drury's chance to make it work.

Possibly. I haven't seen a player take so many bad shots since Callahan. But that said, he was winging it like everybody else was. He played his best with very predictable players who skate in straight lines. 

[Br4d]

37 minutes ago, Pete said:

Possibly. I haven't seen a player take so many bad shots since Callahan. But that said, he was winging it like everybody else was. He played his best with very predictable players who skate in straight lines. 

 

He played with Panarin for most of the first half of the season and then again during the rotating of lines that happened after Tarasenko was acquired.

 

With Panarin what exactly was he supposed to do?  Continue the cycling?

[Flynn]

I like the fact he actually took shots.. This team didn’t need one more guy looking for the perfect pass. Tro fills a gap. Need another Vatrano too while we are at it 

[The Dude]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

I understand why you feel that way, but I just don't agree that they would have been better with somebody like Kakko in that role. Because that's what would have happened.

 

I keep asking for Goodrow on that Panarin line because he's exactly what they need, somebody who's going to hunt pucks in the corners, but also drag them into the fight and make sure they feel like they have somebody on the ice to stick up for them (them being Bread and Chytil).

 

That said, if you had Kane and Bread together, they would need a Kadri like C to compliment that. Maybe a Horvat. Not a Trocheck. 

 

My point is there's no point in saying that it was a failure, there were too many outside factors. Maybe Bread thought Kane could do things Kane just couldn't do with his injury, maybe they were looking for each other too much in the beginning, but the fact that they were kept together for 5 minutes didn't help anything.

 

Even when Kane was showing some vibe with Zib, it got taken apart. 

 

I don't think people understand how big a problem GG was here. I've made some long posts about it, and seemingly small things have huge cascading effects. You think changing line combinations or even swapping right wings is a small change, but it's actually a pretty big change for a team with no system. That means you're going to get a right wing on your line who might not be doing what the last right wing on your line was doing. That's why systems are important. Everybody needs to know what their responsibilities are on the ice at all times, and the Rangers just haven't had that for 2 years, which is why oftentimes they look confused and disjointed.

 

When you boil it down, GG really had two problems which alone might not have been such a big deal, but when you combine them they wound up being a very big deal. You want to coach who changes lines all the time, that's fine as long as there's a strong system in place to dictate players position. If you don't have a strong system, you better leave those lines together so that they can gel and develop chemistry and understand where everybody is going to be. It just so happens that pairs like Zib/CK and Bread/Strome had some really organic chemistry and they think the game the same way.

 

But they decided they would rather have Trocheck. And at the end of the season, I'm not sure they're a better team. The powerplay certainly wasn't better, and Trocheck had one point in the playoffs and was 47% in the dot. But that doesn't get talked about, even though it was widely speculated that he was a massive upgrade and would be a 75 point player with Panarin. 

 

I'm totally with you with the constant line changing.  One thing about that. Late in the season I was taken back by a report about how little the team was practicing.  Especially after the trades. 

 

Every game with the new lines seriously looked like you just kinda suggested.  Like they never played together and had no clue where the new linemate would go.  With very little practice time, how can anyone just keep flipping the lines? 

 

With no system and players free wheeling, the players would have to talk though. Kinda make their own plays and tell each other what their game is? Players have their niche. Their style. These guys do have a rapport.  If Tarasenko just joined your team, it's no surprise that you're typically going to find him where he's known to be or what he would do if he's carrying the puck. 

 

I'm dumbfounded that a team can get as far as the Rangers did without a system. But I'm also not getting how a systemless team can't figure out each other's strong points. If they're truly on their own and they looked as good as they did sometimes,  it's just odd that bringing in the skill players they did, with their resume and all, didn't bring much better results than we saw.

 

I'll keep bringing up the thing that I believe Zibanejad said. Something about everyone was waiting for the new guys to do something, as an excuse for their play. 

 

That makes me think that the big name brought in so late and with zero practice, left them star struck or uncomfortable. My opinion is that bringing in a player without the big name and all the hoopla, sent a ripple effect through what was somewhat working on its own. He was going to play no matter what and that's what any coach would do. You aquire Patrick Kane, you're damn sure going to get blood from that stone. 

 

A Domi, Greenway, Namestnikov, Bjugstad, Puljujarvi, Lafferty, Niederreiter or anything like that, puts the Rangers in a better way. It gives them options to move players around if things didn't work. Because what they got in Kane... they were stuck with. Bad or good,  you have to play Kane in your top 6. They did and the players waited for him to take over games. He didn’t have it.

 

If Domi or whoever doesn't exactly fit, you can easily slide him down or move him to 4C and slot up Goodrow, Kakko or (yuck) Vesey. Nevermind that I believe that the Rangers needed and still need more of a gritty, dumbed down style of shooter who plays with attitude. It just adds to the depth of a team's abilities. 

 

I don't want a top six filled with only soft skilled players.  It hardly ever translates into a serious contender. It's what plagues both Toronto and Edmonton (besides shit goaltending, christ with those teams, get a fucking goalie already).

 

Anyway,  I think the team would have settled better after the trade deadline, if they brought more of a soldier type in, instead of a go to guy AFTER they brought in Tarasenko.  

 

As of now? Yeah I'm ok with Goodrow in the top 6. Seems like it's the only option. 

 

Trocheck ...  IDK. I like the player. The contract is meh. It probably looks better when the cap gets closer to what it should be. Breaking up Strome and Panarin just seemed like something we knew was going to happen. If he was coming back,  it would have probably been done sometime last season. It seems like Trocheck was Drurys target though. He signed him on day one of free agency, with other options signing later. Kadri going to shithole Calgary later in the summer, begs tome to wonder how they couldn't talk him into taking less to play for the better organization with the better players.  Getting that guy would have been a game changer. 

 

But Trocheck slotting down and Chytil up isn't that terrible. It has to work though. Chytil really needs to click. If not, it's going to be a big challenge to figure out what to do.  I absolutely hated how Trocheck and Panairn played together.  I don't want to see that again. Gotta wonder if Trocheck is tradeable or see if he can play RW. God the Rangers are pitiful in depthnat center. At this point with how disappointing Lafrenière and (to a lesser extent because I see progress) Kakko are, I wonder if they can move to center. 

 

[Long live the King]

We have a shooter with attitude.  Brennan Othmann. 

[Pete]

42 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

He played with Panarin for most of the first half of the season and then again during the rotating of lines that happened after Tarasenko was acquired.

 

With Panarin what exactly was he supposed to do?  Continue the cycling?

If only they had a system to dictate what they are supposed to do...

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I'm dumbfounded that a team can get as far as the Rangers did without a system. But I'm also not getting how a systemless team can't figure out each other's strong points. If they're truly on their own and they looked as good as they did sometimes,  it's just odd that bringing in the skill players they did, with their resume and all, didn't bring much better results than we saw.

I don't disagree with a lot of your post, but I'm just pulling this out to discuss.

 

I see what you're saying, and I really think what was happening is they were playing together, and they were talking to each other, and they were figuring it out, and then the lines would be changed again. So yeah, you would think that they would try to on their own figure out how they would work together, but if it didn't gel as fast as the coach wanted it to, maybe a game? Sometimes a period??... Then it would just get switched again. And then it would go back to something that was tried previously, but all of those players just spend time trying to adjust to other players, and the cycle continues...

 

I attribute all the success they had to individual skills and talent and a goalie who's the best in the world. If they had somebody who can bring them together as a team and get them on the same page, then watch out. 

[Pete]

27 minutes ago, Flynn said:

I like the fact he actually took shots.. This team didn’t need one more guy looking for the perfect pass. Tro fills a gap. Need another Vatrano too while we are at it 

It only works if you hit the net. 

[RangersIn7]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

I don't disagree with a lot of your post, but I'm just pulling this out to discuss.

 

I see what you're saying, and I really think what was happening is they were playing together, and they were talking to each other, and they were figuring it out, and then the lines would be changed again. So yeah, you would think that they would try to on their own figure out how they would work together, but if it didn't gel as fast as the coach wanted it to, maybe a game? Sometimes a period??... Then it would just get switched again. And then it would go back to something that was tried previously, but all of those players just spend time trying to adjust to other players, and the cycle continues...

 

I attribute all the success they had to individual skills and talent and a goalie who's the best in the world. If they had somebody who can bring them together as a team and get them on the same page, then watch out. 

And that is really the thing.

 

Let them know their responsibilities.

Define their roles.

Give them a structure to fall back on. 
Deploy and utilize them properly, in the right combinations and…. 
 

PLAY MATCHUPS!

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Long live the King said:

We have a shooter with attitude.  Brennan Othmann. 

Agreed, but some here aren't high on his chances of being ready this coming season. Me? I'm pretty sure he walks on the team and is an instant impact as a pain in the ass on a 3rd line.  Not expecting much production from him just yet, but still an impact. 

 

Really hoping he can switch to RW.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

He played with Panarin for most of the first half of the season and then again during the rotating of lines that happened after Tarasenko was acquired.

 

With Panarin what exactly was he supposed to do?  Continue the cycling?

Not shoot the puck from behind the faceoff circle, 3 seconds after Panarin gains the blue line and starts to set up shop. Continue the cycle?  Start the cycle.... Just take a smarter higher percentage shot.

 

I get trying to be a bit unpredictable with a shot selection. But most times he'd just chuck it from that area in a poor time. If there's a guy in front or a guy going to the net, that's OK. It was consistently quick in quick out because he wouldn't let anything develop. He looked better with Kreider. Possibly because he would have to carry the puck a bit more? 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

 He looked better with Kreider. Possibly because he would have to carry the puck a bit more? 

Exactly right, Tro wanted to carry the puck as did Panarin. Strome was much better at the 2 man give and go that Panarin likes. That's how he gets his space. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Pete

[siddious]

 

[Pete]

26 minutes ago, siddious said:

 

The fact that he's already putting that much weight on it is stunning. Normally you're nonload bearing at this point. 

 

He's going to be a point per game player again next season.

[siddious]

On 6/25/2023 at 9:28 AM, Pete said:

The fact that he's already putting that much weight on it is stunning. Normally you're nonload bearing at this point. 

 

He's going to be a point per game player again next season.

Gonna look great with Panarin

Edited June 27, 2023 by siddious

[RichieNextel305]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

The fact that he's already putting that much weight on it is stunning. Normally you're nonload bearing at this point. 

 

He's going to be a point per game player again next season.

And that’s why, given our situation at RW, if he is willing to stay in the place he fought to get to and eventually got to, you discuss it. If he willing to stay at a discount, you investigate what it takes to make that happen.

[Sharpshooter]

I wouldn't hate it, but I think this new staff wants to give Lafreniere and Kakko more power play time. Bringing Kane actually kind of messed up the PP a bit last year, the flow of it, and would only take time away from them again. You could blame some of it on Gallant's handling of the roster, I suppose. If they can make it work, they'll probably do it, but I could also see them walking away even with the issues at right wing.

 

I fully expect him to be somewhere else next season and be awesome again.

[Valriera]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

And that’s why, given our situation at RW, if he is willing to stay in the place he fought to get to and eventually got to, you discuss it. If he willing to stay at a discount, you investigate what it takes to make that happen.

Agreed 

[Br4d]

The last thing you want to do with a coach who juggles as much as GG did is to hand him several must-play assets at the trading deadline.  in 2021 the Rangers got lucky with Vatrano clicking immediately with Zibanejad and Kreider and with Copp working well with whomever he got matched up with.

 

This last season it didn't work so well as everything went into a sustained transition as Tarasenko was followed by Kane and neither of them found particularly gluey fits once they got here.

 

There's been a lot of discussion about how the PP seemed to get worse after the two arrivals and that kind of makes sense because there was nothing wrong with the PP before they got here and they were both likely to get significant PP time afterwards.

 

If it's not broke don't try to fix it.

[Albatrosss]

Issue i have with Kane is lets say he’s totally healthy to play and will start putting up points right away. In order to sign him you’d have to give a 3-4 contract and he’s 35 years old. He’s one dimensional player who does nothing else well other than putting up points. If is scoring abilities diminish, and they will cause he’s old and way past his prime, he’s got nothing else to offer on the ice. He doesn’t play defense, he can’t be a checking forward, he’s not physical, and he’s not a 4th line material either. So you’re basically gambling on a guy to put up points for the length of his contract, which he wont be able to do at his age.

Of course if he takes a one year contract, everything i said doesn’t matter 

[Butcher Icebone]

I had a dream that Kane and Senko both agreed to $800,000 deals to stick around to help us win.

 

But sadly, like Big Poppa said…. it was all a dream.

[Pete]

9 hours ago, CCCP said:

Issue i have with Kane is lets say he’s totally healthy to play and will start putting up points right away. In order to sign him you’d have to give a 3-4 contract and he’s 35 years old. He’s one dimensional player who does nothing else well other than putting up points. If is scoring abilities diminish, and they will cause he’s old and way past his prime, he’s got nothing else to offer on the ice. He doesn’t play defense, he can’t be a checking forward, he’s not physical, and he’s not a 4th line material either. So you’re basically gambling on a guy to put up points for the length of his contract, which he wont be able to do at his age.

Of course if he takes a one year contract, everything i said doesn’t matter 

Yea God damned those players who only generate goals in a league where success is determined by scoring more goals than the opponent. 

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Yea God damned those players who only generate goals in a league where success is determined by scoring more goals than the opponent. 

Did u even read the post?

[jsm7302]

17 hours ago, CCCP said:

Issue i have with Kane is lets say he’s totally healthy to play and will start putting up points right away. In order to sign him you’d have to give a 3-4 contract and he’s 35 years old. He’s one dimensional player who does nothing else well other than putting up points. If is scoring abilities diminish, and they will cause he’s old and way past his prime, he’s got nothing else to offer on the ice. He doesn’t play defense, he can’t be a checking forward, he’s not physical, and he’s not a 4th line material either. So you’re basically gambling on a guy to put up points for the length of his contract, which he wont be able to do at his age.

Of course if he takes a one year contract, everything i said doesn’t matter 

2 cups in 83 years. The big name on Broadway has worked one time. This management literally tries to pry every big name here. Why do we keep running it back? Why do fans think, "This time will be different!"

 

It won't be. Kane is not the guy here. Hopes and dreams are not going to make him click on this roster. I hope the guy has Uber success for his last couple of years, just not here. He isn't one of the missing pieces.