Rangers Acquire Patrick Kane From Blackhawks for 2023 Conditional 2nd Round Pick and a 4th Round Pick

[Pete]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

You said:

 

 

So is your official stance “Trocheck will wear his own body out by checking <insert name of anyone bigger than him>”?

Bingo. Because it's happened to almost every other player of his size who plays the way he plays. When you are 5-10/11, 175-85 and you want to use your body as a missile, it normally doesn't end well.

We've witnessed it, see: Callahan, Ryan.

 

[trooooooobs]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

You realize that Tarasenko is 6-2, 230, right? 

I wasn't taking about him.  I was talking about Kane.  5'9" 179 pounds 

 

On 3/4/2023 at 7:17 PM, Valriera said:

Ah yes the world is on fire after a short handed stretch of time after a solid performance against the best team in nhl history 

A solid performance....huh...they gave the puck away about 50 times (panarin 6 all by himself with those bullshit cross ice passes) couldn't get out of their own zone to save their ass. hit all over the ice with no answer. Nothing close to a solid performance there...except the kid line

[BrooksBurner]

46 minutes ago, Pete said:

Bingo. Because it's happened to almost every other player of his size who plays the way he plays. When you are 5-10/11, 175-85 and you want to use your body as a missile, it normally doesn't end well.

We've witnessed it, see: Callahan, Ryan.

 

This is a pretty specific rabbit hole though. It doesn’t suggest that the Rangers as a team would be grinded down by the Bruins as a team because a single player might be Callahan part deux (I disagree with this assertion by the way) and McAvoy is over 6’ tall 200Lb. I would take a gander that most defensemen are over 6’ 200 lb.

[Phil]

51 minutes ago, Pete said:

Bingo. Because it's happened to almost every other player of his size who plays the way he plays. When you are 5-10/11, 175-85 and you want to use your body as a missile, it normally doesn't end well.

We've witnessed it, see: Callahan, Ryan.

 

 

And he's only the best Rangers example. This is true of the entire league. Guys who use their bodies as missiles burn out twice as fast as those who don't, and that rate is probably worse for the player the smaller he is, because he's having to exert even more energy against bigger players.

 

The smart ones, like Marchand, reinvent themselves as they age so get away from this. It's what allows them to play as long as they are.

[trooooooobs]

14 minutes ago, vanman said:

Wasn't taking about taresenko, was talking about Kane...5'9" 179 pounds.  

 

[BrooksBurner]

53 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

And he's only the best Rangers example. This is true of the entire league. Guys who use their bodies as missiles burn out twice as fast as those who don't, and that rate is probably worse for the player the smaller he is, because he's having to exert even more energy against bigger players.

 

The smart ones, like Marchand, reinvent themselves as they age so get away from this. It's what allows them to play as long as they are.

We have to distinguish between “wear and tear” during a singular playoff run, versus wear and tear year over year as a career progresses.

 

This conversation was specifically about this year’s playoff run. I don’t buy that a 7 game series with the Bruins, or a 25-30 game playoff run, would leave Trocheck battered and broken simply because he checks players 2 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier.

Edited March 6, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

We have to distinguish between “wear and tear” during a singular playoff run, versus wear and tear year over year as a career progresses.

 

This conversation was specifically about this year’s playoff run. I don’t buy that a 7 game series with the Bruins, or a 25-30 game playoff run, would leave Trocheck battered and broken simply because he checks players 2 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier.

 

No disagreement. We're kinda having two different arguments, sorta. Micro vs. macro. I'm looking at micro — what might happen to this team over the course of a presumable run to the Cup. My concerns around that are that they don't really have the options on paper to reconfigure based on the opposing muscle they're likely to have to go through. It's Carolina and Boston especially I'm most concerned with. My main worry is that there's really no combination of lines they can put together deep in a series against Boston that can help them get over the fact that they're gonna get physically abused in it. Can they outscore that problem? On paper, yes. But I don't think I'm wrong to be somewhat concerned that that can actually manifest in reality when it matters most.

Trocheck I have longer-term concerns with in the same way I did with Callahan. But that's a macro issue. I think it's pretty undeniable the link between players who go this hard, physically (especially the undersized guys) and the eventual price that's paid for it down the line when they get into their thirties.

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

No disagreement. We're kinda having two different arguments, sorta. Micro vs. macro. I'm looking at micro — what might happen to this team over the course of a presumable run to the Cup. My concerns around that are that they don't really have the options on paper to reconfigure based on the opposing muscle they're likely to have to go through. It's Carolina and Boston especially I'm most concerned with. My main worry is that there's really no combination of lines they can put together deep in a series against Boston that can help them get over the fact that they're gonna get physically abused in it. Can they outscore that problem? On paper, yes. But I don't think I'm wrong to be somewhat concerned that that can actually manifest in reality when it matters most.

Trocheck I have longer-term concerns with in the same way I did with Callahan. But that's a macro issue. I think it's pretty undeniable the link between players who go this hard, physically (especially the undersized guys) and the eventual price that's paid for it down the line when they get into their thirties.

I’m partially with you on Trocheck at a macro-level. He’ll naturally have to lighten up a little bit, but I don’t see it at the Callahan level.  Callahan was a terrific, but especially ballsy, PKer, but he got beat up so often from giving up his body there that it had a cumulative effect with the way he also played at even strength. He was much more of a wrecking ball than Trocheck. Just look at his hit totals early on and compare to Tro. Cally also had way less skill to successfully adapt his game. Tro can carry the puck and has some finesse to his game.

[Phil]

Agreed. One of the biggest issues with Callahan was that, like Girardi, he was a fearless shot-blocker. I'd imagine his body was just a consistent black and blue during the season.

[Long live the King]

38 minutes ago, Phil said:

Agreed. One of the biggest issues with Callahan was that, like Girardi, he was a fearless shot-blocker. I'd imagine his body was just a consistent black and blue during the season.

 

This.  Plus Trocheck is nowhere near Cally's numbers.  Cally was logging over 250 hits per season, and more so that that I think the 70-80 shots blocked are way more of a factor in the breakdown as far as broken feet and ankles go.

 

Trocheck's high hit total is 185 and high blocked shots is 55.

[Pete]

3 hours ago, vanman said:

I wasn't taking about him.  I was talking about Kane.  5'9" 179 pounds

I understand that, but you're acting like they didn't add the exact player you're talking about.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

This is a pretty specific rabbit hole though. It doesn’t suggest that the Rangers as a team would be grinded down by the Bruins as a team because a single player might be Callahan part deux (I disagree with this assertion by the way) and McAvoy is over 6’ tall 200Lb. I would take a gander that most defensemen are over 6’ 200 lb.

You're going down the hole. I made 2 points.

1. You don't need to be physical to win
2. Things indicated by one Saturday afternoon in early March have nothing to do with playoff hockey.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

No disagreement. We're kinda having two different arguments, sorta. Micro vs. macro. I'm looking at micro — what might happen to this team over the course of a presumable run to the Cup. My concerns around that are that they don't really have the options on paper to reconfigure based on the opposing muscle they're likely to have to go through. It's Carolina and Boston especially I'm most concerned with. My main worry is that there's really no combination of lines they can put together deep in a series against Boston that can help them get over the fact that they're gonna get physically abused in it. Can they outscore that problem? On paper, yes. But I don't think I'm wrong to be somewhat concerned that that can actually manifest in reality when it matters most.

Trocheck I have longer-term concerns with in the same way I did with Callahan. But that's a macro issue. I think it's pretty undeniable the link between players who go this hard, physically (especially the undersized guys) and the eventual price that's paid for it down the line when they get into their thirties.

Right. It's a simple conversation, I don't know why people are dissecting it. Are the Bruins going to grind you down over 7 games? Yes. Are the Rangers? No. Does that predict an outcome? Also no.

[Pete]

Also Callahan's back injury that led to his retirement didn't come from shot blocking,

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Right. It's a simple conversation, I don't know why people are dissecting it. Are the Bruins going to grind you down over 7 games? Yes. Are the Rangers? No. Does that predict an outcome? Also no.

 

Yup. It's why I keep reiterating that this is just a concern of mine. I think it's entirely plausible they can outscore the problem.

 

I don't know that I'd have gone this exact route if I were running things, but I'm not. These are the moves they've made. On paper, it's the deepest offensive team they've probably ever had. We'll see what happens.

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, vanman said:

 

VanGoodman?

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

No disagreement. We're kinda having two different arguments, sorta. Micro vs. macro. I'm looking at micro — what might happen to this team over the course of a presumable run to the Cup. My concerns around that are that they don't really have the options on paper to reconfigure based on the opposing muscle they're likely to have to go through. It's Carolina and Boston especially I'm most concerned with. My main worry is that there's really no combination of lines they can put together deep in a series against Boston that can help them get over the fact that they're gonna get physically abused in it. Can they outscore that problem? On paper, yes. But I don't think I'm wrong to be somewhat concerned that that can actually manifest in reality when it matters most.

Trocheck I have longer-term concerns with in the same way I did with Callahan. But that's a macro issue. I think it's pretty undeniable the link between players who go this hard, physically (especially the undersized guys) and the eventual price that's paid for it down the line when they get into their thirties.

Kreider- Trocheck- Kane/Tarasenko 

Could and should be that combination as well as rolling out the 4th line regularly.  Goodrow is going to shape back into the mold of the physical player they thought they were signing. If he is deployed correctly, I think he makes that difference up.

 

That Trocheck/ Kreider combo looked pretty good a few weeks ago. It's that different look we need in the top 6/9. I can't stand watching Panarin with Trocheck anymore. It just doesn't work. It should. But it doesn't. 

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Yup. It's why I keep reiterating that this is just a concern of mine. I think it's entirely plausible they can outscore the problem.

 

I don't know that I'd have gone this exact route if I were running things, but I'm not. These are the moves they've made. On paper, it's the deepest offensive team they've probably ever had. We'll see what happens.

I think people just aren't paying attention to who got added. 

 

Tarasenko is a beast, 3G in 7 games against Boston in a Cup final. 

 

Kane is a P/G playoff performer, Conn Smythe winner, beat the Kings in a year they played Bruins the following series for the Cup.

 

These guys know what they're doing. 

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

I think people just aren't paying attention to who got added. 

 

Tarasenko is a beast, 3G in 7 games against Boston in a Cup final. 

 

Kane is a P/G playoff performer, Conn Smythe winner, beat the Kings in a year they played Bruins the following series for the Cup.

 

These guys know what they're doing. 

 

It's very much what have you done for me lately issue with the team dropping games (that matter very little) while the new guys get acclimated. In a lot of ways, they kinda reset again after getting Kane. It took Tarasenko like eight-ish games? Plus they haven't had Lindgren or Miller in the lineup.

[Ozzy]

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think people just aren't paying attention to who got added. 

 

Tarasenko is a beast, 3G in 7 games against Boston in a Cup final. 

 

Kane is a P/G playoff performer, Conn Smythe winner, beat the Kings in a year they played Bruins the following series for the Cup.

 

These guys know what they're doing. 

 

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

It's very much what have you done for me lately issue with the team dropping games (that matter very little) while the new guys get acclimated. In a lot of ways, they kinda reset again after getting Kane. It took Tarasenko like eight-ish games? Plus they haven't had Lindgren or Miller in the lineup.

 

So let me get this straight, fellas... 

 

Just kinda RELAX and not jump off the bridge yet??  LOL

 

Fuckin' A boys, we got this!  These guys were brought here to win in the playoffs.  Right now is "training camp" (Regular season style)...20 games worth.

 

[torontonyr]

Is it just me or has Kane been invisible these past few days?

[SaveByRichter35]

4 hours ago, torontonyr said:

Is it just me or has Kane been invisible these past few days?

Whole bunch of them haven't done shit since Saturday.  This team stinks.

[Sharpshooter]

Hopefully they've gotten another letter ready these last few days. Time to blow it up again. Done.

[lefty9]

I know I'm in the Minority, but I would like to see Kane,Zib,Kreider 

Kane setting up Zib and Kreider could be lethal 

[Long live the King]

2 hours ago, lefty9 said:

I know I'm in the Minority, but I would like to see Kane,Zib,Kreider 

Kane setting up Zib and Kreider could be lethal 

 

Kane and Panarin both had 2 of their best goal scoring seasons when they played together.  They combined for 76 and 65 goals those two years.  Their vision, creativity, and playmaking is so advanced that they are more likely to shoot when the other one sets them up.  Panarin had 6 shoots in the OTT game.  I think we'll see Panarin shooting a lot more going forward.  If Panarin is with Tarasenko, he'll be forcing the puck to him the whole game and never shoot.