Rangers Give Kravtsov Permission to Seek Trade; Loaned to KHL

[Long live the King]

4 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I’d say outside of a miracle of epic proportions, we all know there are going to be large stretches where Kreider does his bi weekly coast so he moves up and down the lineup as he cools and heats up, krav slides up as necessary.  We also can’t just assume Kakko and ALF are 100% over any hump of performing. Hunt, while having a good preseason, is 25 and has shown plenty of times his inconsistencies. He won’t be a 100% ink for the lineup every game. Blais, if you ask many Blues fans, struggles with consistency as well. 
 

   The point is, there are going to be times Krav would slot right in. Now, the other part is that if we then are saying Krav isn’t really battling Gaut as much as he’s battling everything else we mentioned above then the question is this? Who benefits more by being around the NHL roster? Our top 10 pick that I think many agree belongs in the NHL or Gauthier who is going on year 3 of his chances to prove he belongs here?  I really think it was time to reward Krav with a roster spot. I’d even be willing to think if he spent the first couple of weeks around the club on our roster, he would respond better to an AHL stint in a few weeks if the coaching staff said “look we just need you to get some games in….keep your head up and you’re our first call up” rather than the direction they went with now. 

Again, all this points to Krav is whiney and entitled.  We're not playing you on the 4th line, go down play a ton of minutes and if anything in the first paragraph ^here^ happens, you're called up.  This is on Krav.

[josh]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

For the record, I'd have bailed on Gauthier no problem. Same with Hajek. In a vacuum. Contextually, I don't think it would have made a big difference because I think the player thinks he's due the position Kreider or Kakko have right now.

No. He wants to be in NY, like he was promised, and get a shot in the line up.

[Long live the King]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

But I think he did beat out Gauthier. That last game alone in the game that was the closest to real an actual NHL rivalry late March style game . Where our top players weren’t even there and guys had to step up. That wasn’t a preseason game as much as it was a game that didn’t count. Kravtsov looked great. Pp time, goal, etc. Gauthier? Meh?  I guess he did his drive to the net thing with no results?  I’d have to check since I don’t remember him doing too much. 

But neither Krav nor Gauthier is in the lineup.  So the one that's waivers exempt can shuttle back and forth.

[LindG1000]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

For the record, I'd have bailed on Gauthier no problem. Same with Hajek. In a vacuum. Contextually, I don't think it would have made a big difference because I think the player thinks he's due the position Kreider or Kakko have right now.

I wholeheartedly agree. If they moved Gauthier here - sure, whatever. Not a problem.

Kravtsov isn't Gauthier. He's a better offensive player, probably a better defensive player, but also probably not near as ready to accept a bottom 6 role and actually excel in it. 

[Keirik]

Just now, josh said:

No. He wants to be in NY, like he was promised, and get a shot in the line up.

Yeah, I think we are adding a bit to this with emotion. I haven’t read anywhere where he said he deserved specific type of minutes. I think he just wants a chance on this team. 

[josh]

Just now, Keirik said:

Yeah, I think we are adding a bit to this with emotion. I haven’t read anywhere where he said he deserved specific type of minutes. I think he just wants a chance on this team. 

Well, Drury all but indicated such.

It was more playing off Phil suggesting he thought he was getting Kakko or Kreiders minutes.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, G1000 said:

I wholeheartedly agree. If they moved Gauthier here - sure, whatever. Not a problem.

Kravtsov isn't Gauthier. He's a better offensive player, probably a better defensive player, but also probably not near as ready to accept a bottom 6 role and actually excel in it. 

Right. It's an unfalsifiable assertion/projection, but I think this is entirely driven by Kravtsov believing he belongs in place of one of Kreider or Kakko right now, today, tomorrow, and the day after. The Rangers cleared the path for he and Kakko to "take the reigns" and only one actually did. Kravtsov was hurt — not his fault — but that stopped him from being able to perform as consistently as Kakko did, to leave Gallant and the coaching staff with no doubt that he's ready for it.

[Keirik]

1 minute ago, Long live the King said:

But neither Krav nor Gauthier is in the lineup.  So the one that's waivers exempt can shuttle back and forth.

And as myself and others have said, he deserved to be part of the nhl roster. Fuck the waivers part. That’s on the organization. They brought back Gauthier. They signed Hunt when they have him in spades. It’s not like they forgot Kravtsov was on the team. 

[Keirik]

3 minutes ago, josh said:

Well, Drury all but indicated such.

It was more playing off Phil suggesting he thought he was getting Kakko or Kreiders minutes.

I suppose he thought maybe he was getting BuchnevichS minutes when they traded him for grit? 

[Flynn]

I'm not sure he deserved anything..  He has no NHL resume to speak of, and his camp was both abbreviated and inconsistent. Not the best way to remove any doubt. 

 

 

[josh]

Just now, Keirik said:

I suppose he thought maybe he was getting BuchnevichS minutes when they traded him for grit? 

I think he was told he was getting a spot on the team, not necessarily minutes.

[Keirik]

5 minutes ago, G1000 said:

I wholeheartedly agree. If they moved Gauthier here - sure, whatever. Not a problem.

Kravtsov isn't Gauthier. He's a better offensive player, probably a better defensive player, but also probably not near as ready to accept a bottom 6 role and actually excel in it. 

But until you really offer that to him, can any of us really say that? He wasn’t even offered that much. He wasn’t even offered a roster spot. He was offered Colony Pizza. 

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

I suppose he thought maybe he was getting BuchnevichS minutes when they traded him for grit? 

Yes, that's the role Kreider/Kakko are in, currently.

[Keirik]

Just now, Phil said:

Yes, that's the role Kreider/Kakko are in, currently.

I know. I’m just thinking if anything, maybe a conversation was had prior to the elevation of Kakko moreso. Kreider we all know is what he is. He’s paid top 6 and by golly he will be top 6 regardless of his staycations.

    And for the record, I don’t think Kravtsov should have been given top 6. What I do think is that he should be on this active roster. Hell even if it’s just so he is around the boys, gets an nhl salary, and slots in around the lineup. It’s sure as hell better than the A. If they wanted to reward Julien then they could have done so by giving the rest of the league a shot at picking him up. 

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, josh said:

I think he was told he was getting a spot on the team, not necessarily minutes.

Yes, top-nine or nothing. Gallant has already signaled, publicly, he doesn't want skilled players on his fourth line.

So, in reality, the roster fight is Kravtsov versus Kreider, Kakko, Goodrow.

The Narrative fight is that he's competing with Gauthier, Hajek, and Hunt. He's not. Because none of them are playing either. The only difference is they require waivers and he didn't.

[josh]

Phil setting a  record for using the slanted I

[Long live the King]

7 minutes ago, Keirik said:

And as myself and others have said, he deserved to be part of the nhl roster. Fuck the waivers part. That’s on the organization. They brought back Gauthier. They signed Hunt when they have him in spades. It’s not like they forgot Kravtsov was on the team. 

No they didn't forget he was there.  They sent him down because he was waivers exempt.  Seems like Krav forgot that he's an adult and life doesn't always go exactly the way you want.  Gauthier when he's in the lineup will be a bottom 6 grinder.  Hunt is a 4th liner/13th forward.  Neither of those things apply to Krav.

[josh]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

Yes, top-nine or nothing. Gallant has already signaled, publicly, he doesn't want skilled players on his fourth line.

So, in reality, the roster fight is Kravtsov versus Kreider, Kakko, Goodrow.

The Narrative fight is that he's competing with Gauthier, Hajek, and Hunt. He's not. Because none of them are playing either. The only difference is they require waivers and he didn't.

Kravtsov isn't learning anything in the AHL or the KHL that will help his NHL game. That's the reality.

There is no problem carrying 14 forwards when you have a ton of young kids, Strome and Reaves out with injuries, and Hajek and Tinordi as extra D, literal dead weight.

[Long live the King]

Strome and Reeves aren't out with injuries.

[Phil]

  

8 minutes ago, josh said:

Kravtsov isn't learning anything in the AHL or the KHL that will help his NHL game. That's the reality.

There is no problem carrying 14 forwards when you have a ton of young kids, Strome and Reaves out with injuries, and Hajek and Tinordi as extra D, literal dead weight.

Again, it's not about learning. It's about waiting for an opportunity. Injury. Trade. Players falling back to earth. There's no guarantee Kreider sticks at RW. There's no body of evidence to suggest Kakko's preseason dominance will translate long-term. Blais could slip, and end up on the fourth-line LW, allowing Goodrow to move to the left of Chytil and giving Kravtsov an opening.

The question is whether or not he'd even accept that. I'm not sure he would. I recognize there's a difference between being assigned to HFD and being an extra on the NHL roster, but I'm not sure it changes the outcome of requesting a trade.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, josh said:

Kravtsov isn't learning anything in the AHL or the KHL that will help his NHL game. That's the reality.

There is no problem carrying 14 forwards when you have a ton of young kids, Strome and Reaves out with injuries, and Hajek and Tinordi as extra D, literal dead weight.

I don't really know if that's true. LINK

Quote

"One of the things that we were looking for was the maturity to his game," Rangers director of player development Jed Ortmeyer told the USA TODAY Network in August. "The second-effort battles, backchecking, defensive responsibility – that was showing up more and more frequently in his games in the KHL last year. That was encouraging."

It's totally possible they didn't see good habits in his limited time.

Or it could just be the path of least resistance with his status+waivers. He should just go play. What's the message to the Barrons and Joneses of the world? They're good enough for the AHL but he's too good for it? That's not a good look.

[josh]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't really know if that's true. LINK

It's totally possible they didn't see good habits in his limited time.

Or it could just be the path of least resistance with his status+waivers. He should just go play. What's the message to the Barrons and Joneses of the world? They're good enough for the AHL but he's too good for it? That's not a good look.

Pete I dont get the quote. That's from August praising what he did in the KHL last year (his "send down, do the right things, and you come up" stint). That's exactly when you give a guy a chance in the lineup, no?

They saw it in the KHL last year. They saw enough in the NHL last year for Drury to list him with the NHLers not the prospects (Barron and Jones). So a few good games while injured does it?

Edited October 12, 2021 by josh

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, josh said:

Pete I dont get the quote. That's from August praising what he did in the KHL last year (his "send down, do the right things, and you come up" stint). That's exactly when you give a guy a chance in the lineup, no?

They saw it in the KHL last year. They saw enough in the NHL last year for Drury to list him with the NHLers not the prospects (Barron and Jones). So a few good games while injured does it?

It's possible they saw some laziness or bad habits in his limited time. Who knows?

This is the coach everyone wanted, and this is a decision he weighed in on, and now everyone is upset. Would people be this upset had he just went down and played? So are people upset that he got cut, or that he's reacting poorly?

[Keirik]

26 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

No they didn't forget he was there.  They sent him down because he was waivers exempt.  Seems like Krav forgot that he's an adult and life doesn't always go exactly the way you want.  Gauthier when he's in the lineup will be a bottom 6 grinder.  Hunt is a 4th liner/13th forward.  Neither of those things apply to Krav.

I wish you would pick a lane. One hour in the thread you’re saying it’s waivers, the other time you’re saying it’s because 

Quote

Gallant today in the video posted earlier:  "We like Kravy...he missed some time and the other guys played well...you have to do it day in and day out."  Sounds like the coach who was at practice everyday wanted to see a little more from Krav.

   I get you can make generic “it’s a bit of both” but you keep flopping back and forth on why he was sent down. Besides, if it was based on play, then it’s a horrible evaluation of talent and roster management. Gauthier hasn’t done anything different in this camp that has hasn’t already been doing with the same zero results for 2 prior seasons here. Im sure Drury and Gallant have seen it with their own eyes or watched summer videos of players in Gallants case. Even in the short time Krav played he showed results.

    If it was based on waivers then again, it’s horrible roster management and evaluation. One has a future, one is a bust. 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

20 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't really know if that's true. LINK

It's totally possible they didn't see good habits in his limited time.

Or it could just be the path of least resistance with his status+waivers. He should just go play. What's the message to the Barrons and Joneses of the world? They're good enough for the AHL but he's too good for it? That's not a good look.

To me that article by Vince pretty much solidifies that this was a communication issue which is on the organization. If true, the article pretty clearly implies that Kravtsov found out and was not given a clear idea of what the plan was. 

We can do the "he is a baby" and "needs to grow up" all day long(which I do agree with); but at the end of the day, a simple conversation probably could have avoided the organization putting themselves in the position that they have with him now. This is not a 5th round draft pick, but the best forward prospect in the organization if you acknowledge that Lafeneire and Kaako are not really prospects anymore.

I remain unchanged in my view that this is horrible asset management.