2021-22 Reports From the Rink

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

False alarm:

 

 

4th alarm. 

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, ThirtyONE said:

 

I don't think it's punishment. The Rangers were basically the worst team Laf could get drafted to with Kreider and Panarin signed long term on the LW. He's either a 3rd liner or nothing and 3rd line is not his kind of game at the NHL level.

 

Vatrano has come back to earth lately. I think the move for the playoffs is Laf on the 1st line RW, swapping him out with Vatrano when they need to. 

 I was thinking the same with Vatrano. I'd still like to see Copp centering Lafreniere and Kakko, but he's meshing really well with Panarin and Strome.

 

The kid line has potential, and is the likely end game moving forward this season.  They haven't seemed able to stay in the lineup together via health reasons. I'd like to see Gallant up their playing time a little and get them going. All it takes is for one of those guys to get going and the line will be a success. The Rangers really need to bank on that, so they can get Goodrow back to where hes most effective. On the 4th line. I don’t see him clicking with offensive minded, skill players. He needs to be with his own kind. 

 

I don't know what it is, but that dude clicks on a different level when he's with Rooney and Reaves.  Absolute pests that play hard and can keep the puck pinned in the oppositions end, wearing down a defense. Pretty much what he did in Tampa and kinda what everyone came in their pants over, with the Isles 4th line in the playoffs last year. To have that different look to throw out there is a luxury the Rangers must exploit. 

[josh]

Right now, I keep the top two lines, they’re hot.

Assuming the lines cool off and they want to change it up. 

Kreider - Zibanejad - Lafreniere (Kreider is the big body on the line. Skill, speed and size) 

panarin - Strome -  Hunt (When this line is together, watch after every whistle. Hunts always involved in something, taking the opponents attention. That’s going to be beneficial to Panarin in the post season) 

I put this bottom 6 together trying to make something  hard to play against. The third line is annoying, the 4th line is physical. Even if it’s Chytil (on the wing!) he could do some damage with the other guys taking up room and playing physical. 

Vatrano - Copp - Kakko

Goodrow - Rooney - Reaves/Chytil 

the problem will be gallant stuck on using Chytil. Most likely at 3C

[The Dude]

4 hours ago, josh said:

Right now, I keep the top two lines, they’re hot.

Assuming the lines cool off and they want to change it up. 

Kreider - Zibanejad - Lafreniere (Kreider is the big body on the line. Skill, speed and size) 

panarin - Strome -  Hunt (When this line is together, watch after every whistle. Hunts always involved in something, taking the opponents attention. That’s going to be beneficial to Panarin in the post season) 

I put this bottom 6 together trying to make something  hard to play against. The third line is annoying, the 4th line is physical. Even if it’s Chytil (on the wing!) he could do some damage with the other guys taking up room and playing physical. 

Vatrano - Copp - Kakko

Goodrow - Rooney - Reaves/Chytil 

the problem will be gallant stuck on using Chytil. Most likely at 3C

[RangersIn7]

18 hours ago, The Dude said:

 I was thinking the same with Vatrano. I'd still like to see Copp centering Lafreniere and Kakko, but he's meshing really well with Panarin and Strome.

 

The kid line has potential, and is the likely end game moving forward this season.  They haven't seemed able to stay in the lineup together via health reasons. I'd like to see Gallant up their playing time a little and get them going. All it takes is for one of those guys to get going and the line will be a success. The Rangers really need to bank on that, so they can get Goodrow back to where hes most effective. On the 4th line. I don’t see him clicking with offensive minded, skill players. He needs to be with his own kind. 

 

I don't know what it is, but that dude clicks on a different level when he's with Rooney and Reaves.  Absolute pests that play hard and can keep the puck pinned in the oppositions end, wearing down a defense. Pretty much what he did in Tampa and kinda what everyone came in their pants over, with the Isles 4th line in the playoffs last year. To have that different look to throw out there is a luxury the Rangers must exploit. 

Broken record here, but…

 

The reasons you don’t see LaFreniere putting up more offensively is two-fold

1) He clearly is inexperienced and finding his way in every way. He needs more time and to put in more work in terms of his conditioning and style and learning.

2) He hasn’t been just given the ice time that most guys of his draft status, pedigree, and age are given. Period.

 

I’m all for guys earning their time. Most guys have to. With one exception. Top prospects. 
 

Teams just typically run those guys out there.

 

The Rangers haven’t done so. Not with him. Not with Kakko either. 
 

They just haven’t.

 

Dont believe me? Go look at their game logs. Then look at the game logs for top-2 picks in the last 15 drafts. 
 

They’ve gotten less ice time almost universally. And basically zero PP time. Plus limited ice time with top players.

 

Thats the why.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

Broken record here, but…

 

The reasons you don’t see LaFreniere putting up more offensively is two-fold

1) He clearly is inexperienced and finding his way in every way. He needs more time and to put in more work in terms of his conditioning and style and learning.

2) He hasn’t been just given the ice time that most guys of his draft status, pedigree, and age are given. Period.

 

I’m all for guys earning their time. Most guys have to. With one exception. Top prospects. 
 

Teams just typically run those guys out there.

 

The Rangers haven’t done so. Not with him. Not with Kakko either. 
 

They just haven’t.

 

Dont believe me? Go look at their game logs. Then look at the game logs for top-2 picks in the last 15 drafts. 
 

They’ve gotten less ice time almost universally. And basically zero PP time. Plus limited ice time with top players.

 

Thats the why.

That's one part. 

 

The other part is that when they have gotten bumps in ice time and higher in the lineup, they did dick with it. 

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Broken record here, but…

 

The reasons you don’t see LaFreniere putting up more offensively is two-fold

1) He clearly is inexperienced and finding his way in every way. He needs more time and to put in more work in terms of his conditioning and style and learning.

2) He hasn’t been just given the ice time that most guys of his draft status, pedigree, and age are given. Period.

 

I’m all for guys earning their time. Most guys have to. With one exception. Top prospects. 
 

Teams just typically run those guys out there.

 

The Rangers haven’t done so. Not with him. Not with Kakko either. 
 

They just haven’t.

 

Dont believe me? Go look at their game logs. Then look at the game logs for top-2 picks in the last 15 drafts. 
 

They’ve gotten less ice time almost universally. And basically zero PP time. Plus limited ice time with top players.

 

Thats the why.

? 

 

I didn't shit all over Lafreniere here. Not exactly sure why I'm getting a "broken record" lecture on Lafreniere, when all I said was the kid line just needs one of them to get going for that line to be a success. Not a single word about Lafrenieres ups and downs. Just that the kid line hasn't been together much due to injuries..

 

Kind implying the line should stick together once they put it back together,  pushing Goodrow to where he belongs and plays best, on the 4th line. 

 

As for Lafreniere not getting to play with the top players. He started with the top players LAST season. He played his way out of that spot. Ended the season back with the top players. Same thing this year. He started the season onnthe 1st line pushing Kreider to the RW. Played his way off the line... Mid season he spent weeks on the RW with Zibanejad and Kreider.  

 

Enough with the excuses. He's had more opportunities than any young forward in the organization. More than Chytil. More than Kakko (who did nothing with his one opportunity to play with Panarin for weeks).

 

He produced today, Kakko produced last game and that is exactly what they need from them. Pop in a goal or 2 every other game. Hope Kakko is ok. He's a part of what NEEDS to work and come together. That's huge. Lafreniere wont stay on thev4th line after a game like today. 

 

Now that 4th line can go out there and do their thing. 

 

 

 

 

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

That's one part. 

 

The other part is that when they have gotten bumps in ice time and higher in the lineup, they did dick with it. 

Yeah. But the others got more than a “bump”

They just parked them there. Regardless. 

 

12 points in 16 games is Dick?

 

Sorry but I disagree.

 

Do you not believe this kid will succeed? Do you think this kid was the wrong pick?

And you’re response will likely be something to the effect of, Oh I’m just telling the truth, or looking at the numbers, or it’s what everyone can see.

 

Development isn’t linear. Especially when you completely change the circumstances for a 20 year old kid who has always played under certain circumstances. 
 

Not disavowing your opinion. It just sounds like peanut gallery, instant gratification shit to me.

 

Relax.

 

Hes 20

 

[Scott]

My guess is if we were a junk team say like the Devils we would of rolled Laf and Kakko no matter how badly they struggled.  So sure the Devils/Sens  and other bad teams tend to ride or die with top five pick regardless of what they do on the ice because they have nothing to lose.  The leash was shorter here because we don't suck, but they did have a  leash to work with and did nothing with it up to this point.

[Pete]

3 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah. But the others got more than a “bump”

They just parked them there. Regardless. 

 

12 points in 16 games is Dick?

 

Sorry but I disagree.

 

Do you not believe this kid will succeed? Do you think this kid was the wrong pick?

And you’re response will likely be something to the effect of, Oh I’m just telling the truth, or looking at the numbers, or it’s what everyone can see.

 

Development isn’t linear. Especially when you completely change the circumstances for a 20 year old kid who has always played under certain circumstances. 
 

Not disavowing your opinion. It just sounds like peanut gallery, instant gratification shit to me.

 

Relax.

 

Hes 20

 

I don't have a crystal ball. Neither do you. But I don't need one to see what he's done to this point which can only be described as disappointing. 

 

You're telling me to relax when you're the only on worked up. But I do appreciate the way you shit on my opinion without actually shitting on it. I might sound like the peanut gallery but you sound like Rangers Twitter so I think I come out on top there.

 

You can go back to making excuses and I'll go back to just calling it what it is today because no one can predict what he'll be in 2/3/4 seasons. 

 

At least we can agree he scored a nasty goal today. I'm sure guys like Zegras see him in their rear view mirrors and worry.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Pete

[RangersIn7]

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't have a crystal ball. Neither do you. But I don't need one to see what he's done to this point which can only be described as disappointing. 

 

You're telling me to relax when you're the only on worked up. But I do appreciate the way you shit on my opinion without actually shitting on it. I might sound like the peanut gallery but you sound like Rangers Twitter so I think I come out on top there.

 

You can go back to making excuses and I'll go back to just calling it what it is today because no one can predict what he'll be in 2/3/4 seasons. 

 

At least we can agree he scored a nasty goal today. I'm sure guys like Zegras see him in their rear view mirrors and worry.

No

 

None of us do. 
 

But I do know that talent typically plays out. When you actually play it.

People always want to call reasons as to why things happen as excuses for why things don’t happen. 
 

Im not shitting on your opinion Pete. Not at all. You expected X and got Y. And there were things attached to it that were probably reasonable. And I do think what you think is valid. 

 

All I’m saying is that the context has been completely lost with both these kids.

Its a unique set of circumstances these kids are developing under. And that’s the why. 
Based on that, I’m not disappointed. 
Not at all. I’d like more.

But I see why we aren’t getting it.
 

The fact that you bring up 2/3/4 years from now leads me to believe you know what I mean.

 

Yeah… we’d like him taking the league by storm. Guess what? 
Id like that too.

We’ve all said this organization doesn’t know how to handle prospects, by in large.

 

Cause you know what? They don’t. 
 

He’s actually fine. So is Kakko. 
 

It’s actually no one’s fault. They’re dealing with a spot wherein they’re trying to win and doing so with a team that actually could win a Cup, but at the same time, pushing these kids in a role where they’ve never been.

 

All I’m saying is what’s real and observeable is a result of context and perspective. 
 

Love your insight. 
But with these two… sorry to say, but you may have to wait longer than you’d like. And longer than it might be if they got drafted in other places. 

[Pete]

10 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

No

 

None of us do. 
 

But I do know that talent typically plays out. When you actually play it.

People always want to call reasons as to why things happen as excuses for why things don’t happen. 
 

Im not shitting on your opinion Pete. Not at all. You expected X and got Y. And there were things attached to it that were probably reasonable. And I do think what you think is valid. 

 

All I’m saying is that the context has been completely lost with both these kids.

Its a unique set of circumstances these kids are developing under. And that’s the why. 
Based on that, I’m not disappointed. 
Not at all. I’d like more.

But I see why we aren’t getting it.
 

The fact that you bring up 2/3/4 years from now leads me to believe you know what I mean.

 

Yeah… we’d like him taking the league by storm. Guess what? 
Id like that too.

We’ve all said this organization doesn’t know how to handle prospects, by in large.

 

Cause you know what? They don’t. 
 

He’s actually fine. So is Kakko. 
 

It’s actually no one’s fault. They’re dealing with a spot wherein they’re trying to win and doing so with a team that actually could win a Cup, but at the same time, pushing these kids in a role where they’ve never been.

 

All I’m saying is what’s real and observeable is a result of context and perspective. 
 

Love your insight. 
But with these two… sorry to say, but you may have to wait longer than you’d like. And longer than it might be if they got drafted in other places. 

There's a lot here that's fair, I can agree with some of these points for sure. 

 

However, where one person may see less icetime that other previous 1 or 2 OAs, others see 60% OZone starts and matching up against the other teams 3rd line instead of 1st and 1st pair D...if they were drafted other places. 

 

And I'm fine being patient at least with Lafreniere, Kakko's body of work has "bust" all over it because on top of all his on ice shortcomings, he can't stay healthy. That said, the fact we had to wait this long with Laf to see a play leading to goal that was even remotely dynamic is concerning.

[BrooksBurner]

I think Lafreniere has had several "dynamic" plays, but they've just been too few and far between. This was probably his first highlight reel play though.

 

On Kakko's side of things, it's been even fewer and further between...and his ELC is now up. We can't even say lack of opportunity or lack of good linemates. He's played in the top 6 all season before his injury. Averaging about 16 minutes a game. I don't know what his value is on the trade market, but there needs to be some serious conversation within the organization on what to do with him. If his ceiling was 30-35 goals 70-80 points on draft day, then it's probably shimmied on down to about 20-25g 50-60 pts now. Not even Pavel Buchnevich numbers. Kakko is legitimately in "cut bait" territory in order to bolster a Cup contending roster.

 

This isn't lack of patience by the way, or saying Kakko won't be any good. I'm still patient with Chytil, but I wouldn't imagine he has a ton of value on the trade market, so I'd rather play the long game. Kakko might have quite a lot of value still, so it's a legitimate discussion to weigh cashing in and getting something of pretty good value in return.

Edited April 17, 2022 by rmc51

[RangersIn7]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

There's a lot here that's fair, I can agree with some of these points for sure. 

 

However, where one person may see less icetime that other previous 1 or 2 OAs, others see 60% OZone starts and matching up against the other teams 3rd line instead of 1st and 1st pair D...if they were drafted other places. 

 

And I'm fine being patient at least with Lafreniere, Kakko's body of work has "bust" all over it because on top of all his on ice shortcomings, he can't stay healthy. That said, the fact we had to wait this long with Laf to see a play leading to goal that was even remotely dynamic is concerning.

Kakko concerns me because of the fragility. 
More than anything else actually. I like the way his game has developed, but there’s not much offense there to speak of.  
 

But again… they’re kids. Let’s see what happens 

 

If Kakko gets an actual full season with decent ice time next year, and shows nothing, I’m with you.

 

Im just nowhere near reaching for the rip cord yet. 
 

And honestly, I bet if they traded one of them, they’d regret it. 
 

I see NHL careers in front of them at the least. That would be bust status, for sure, if they were just “NHL Players.”

But we are still in Act 1.

 

 

[RangersIn7]

8 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I think Lafreniere has had several "dynamic" plays, but they've just been too few and far between. This was probably his first highlight reel play though.

 

On Kakko's side of things, it's been even fewer and further between...and his ELC is now up. We can't even say lack of opportunity or lack of good linemates. He's played in the top 6 all season before his injury. Averaging about 16 minutes a game. I don't know what his value is on the trade market, but there needs to be some serious conversation within the organization on what to do with him. If his ceiling was 30-35 goals 70-80 points on draft day, then it's probably shimmied on down to about 20-25g 50-60 pts now. Not even Pavel Buchnevich numbers. Kakko is legitimately in "cut bait" territory in order to bolster a Cup contending roster.

 

This isn't lack of patience by the way, or saying Kakko won't be any good. I'm still patient with Chytil, but I wouldn't imagine he has a ton of value on the trade market, so I'd rather play the long game. Kakko might have quite a lot of value still, so it's a legitimate discussion to weigh cashing in and getting something of pretty good value in return.

I think we have to reassess Kakko. 
I honestly dindnt know what he’d be.

Dynamic offensive player?

Great two-way player?

Who knows?

 

You might just get 20-25 goals and 50-60 points, but an all situation 200-foot player who soaks up 20 minutes a night. 
 

On the surface, at 2 OVA, that’s disappointing, but in play, it’s so valuable.

 

 

He is by no means there yet though. 
 

But hey… 21. 150ish GP. Punctuations. Interruptions. Injury. Illness. 
 

I know… excuses. But they still occurred. Still real. Still stuff that actually had to be dealt with. It’s like… sigh… every time he turns around.

Plus… he’s gotta play with who?

How much ice time?

Oh, I don’t see the ice on the PP?

 

Ok.

 

Maybe I just need to play a responsible, minimal mistake kind of game.

 

When I watch those 2, that’s actually what I see.

 

Theyre both just looking to not fuck up. 
 

And they haven’t actually. 
 

They just haven’t been turned loose, and felt comfortable enough to just go.

 

 

[RangersIn7]

Also, with LaFreniere, much more so than Kakko, I do see rise to the occasion characteristics. 
 

Kid just looks like he has a dick to swing. He just doesn’t know how to swing it yet. 
They also have not let him really swing it. Or he’s scared to.

 

But it’s big. 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

50 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

I think we have to reassess Kakko. 
I honestly dindnt know what he’d be.

Dynamic offensive player?

Great two-way player?

Who knows?

 

You might just get 20-25 goals and 50-60 points, but an all situation 200-foot player who soaks up 20 minutes a night. 
 

On the surface, at 2 OVA, that’s disappointing, but in play, it’s so valuable.

 

 

He is by no means there yet though. 
 

But hey… 21. 150ish GP. Punctuations. Interruptions. Injury. Illness. 
 

I know… excuses. But they still occurred. Still real. Still stuff that actually had to be dealt with. It’s like… sigh… every time he turns around.

Plus… he’s gotta play with who?

How much ice time?

Oh, I don’t see the ice on the PP?

 

Ok.

 

Maybe I just need to play a responsible, minimal mistake kind of game.

 

When I watch those 2, that’s actually what I see.

 

Theyre both just looking to not fuck up. 
 

And they haven’t actually. 
 

They just haven’t been turned loose, and felt comfortable enough to just go.

 

 

 

Basically Buchnevich-lite, no? And we only got a 2nd round pick and a prayer for him. I'm not going to shit on Kakko since that's not my intent. I like him (as I liked Buchnevich). I like that he's a bit of a hound on puck carriers and he's a fairly responsible player. But these aren't the valuable traits of a #2 pick. They are quality 3rd liner traits. If there is a team who values him closer to #2 overall pick potential, rather than quality 3rd liner, perhaps they should deal him.

 

For arguments sake, let's say a team offers a mid-1st and a decent prospect on ELC. The Rangers get a lot of things here. A prospect who could potentially contribute to the bottom 6 right away. Another much needed ELC bullet for later (by way of the 1st rounder) when cap space remains tight as we field a Cup-competing team. And, perhaps most importantly as we are now firmly in our first window, giving the Rangers cap savings to retain a player they might otherwise lose to free agency (Strome or Copp). Do we sacrifice this if our hope is Kakko is maybe a 60 point player in X years?

[BrooksBurner]

Oh, and also this guy (another winger) is on the way:

 

 

[RangersIn7]

23 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

Basically Buchnevich-lite, no? And we only got a 2nd round pick and a prayer for him. I'm not going to shit on Kakko since that's not my intent. I like him (as I liked Buchnevich). I like that he's a bit of a hound on puck carriers and he's a fairly responsible player. But these aren't the valuable traits of a #2 pick. They are quality 3rd liner traits. If there is a team who values him closer to #2 overall pick potential, rather than quality 3rd liner, perhaps they should deal him.

 

For arguments sake, let's say a team offers a mid-1st and a decent prospect on ELC. The Rangers get a lot of things here. A prospect who could potentially contribute to the bottom 6 right away. Another much needed ELC bullet for later (by way of the 1st rounder) when cap space remains tight as we field a Cup-competing team. And, perhaps most importantly as we are now firmly in our first window, giving the Rangers cap savings to retain a player they might otherwise lose to free agency (Strome or Copp). Do we sacrifice this if our hope is Kakko is maybe a 60 point player in X years?

I still think with an offer like that, your receipt in exchange ceiling is Kakko at his ceiling. I keep Kakko.

 

Bottom line… we have to wait. 
 

At 24, I think we like where he is and what he gives. 
 

 

[josh]

In several years, you could have your top 6 wingers be Lafreniere, Kakko, Othmann and Cuylle 

 

don’t fuck it up. 

[Dunny]

If Cuylle is in your top 6 you probably have some serious issues.

[josh]

They upgraded by adding Vatrano, man 

[BrooksBurner]

Colorado whooped Carolina. Rangers tied for 1st in Metro. Carolina's schedule is a lot easier however.

 

Carolina remaining games

 

Arizona

Jets

NJD

NYI

NYR

NJD

 

NYR remaining games

 

Jets

NYI

Bos

Car

Mtl

Wash

[RichieNextel305]

11 hours ago, rmc51 said:

Colorado whooped Carolina. Rangers tied for 1st in Metro. Carolina's schedule is a lot easier however.

 

Carolina remaining games

 

Arizona

Jets

NJD

NYI

NYR

NJD

 

NYR remaining games

 

Jets

NYI

Bos

Car

Mtl

Wash

Carolina lost Andersen and Staal to injuries last night.

[jsm7302]

8 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Carolina lost Andersen and Staal to injuries last night.

How serious?