Gorton: Team Lacked Toughness and Grit; Will Be Addressed

[Giacomin]

I like him. He brings the toughness, not necessarily the leadership, though.

 

I really think the player will have to complement the coach - the opposite of the Av + McDonagh influence on the team in this aspect.

 

AV isn’t a hoo-rah Guy, so we needed one in the lockerroom. Not sure what the future holds, but I imagine the front office will make a necessary move. Hell, get the right coach, brining in the right mindset, and it could be a guy like Andersson that gets the guys going, similar to Landeskog.

 

If you make it to the NHL, you are tough enough. Just need them to play that way,

I want a mentality more than a physical force. I’m open to how we get that.

 

The bolded points make a lot of sense.

[Giacomin]

Sidebar -- isn't it funny that the toughest organ on the planet—one that's literally births full human babies—is used to signify weakness?

 

Ironically, we've got this completely backwards. We should be calling these guys balls. You know, the things that with the lightest flick, send us to our knees in pain?

 

 

Ha! Always said my wife has balls. Or maybe she's got me by the balls. You should hear what my wife thinks of some of you. At least I only get weird looks. Dunny is only here when his wife let's him.

 

Phil, now I can call you a pussy without getting censored?

[josh]

Sidebar -- isn't it funny that the toughest organ on the planet—one that's literally births full human babies—is used to signify weakness?

 

Ironically, we've got this completely backwards. We should be calling these guys balls. You know, the things that with the lightest flick, send us to our knees in pain?

 

 

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Side bar

 

Tried searching for a gif of the taxi scene from old school and results were not what I was going for :(

[Fatfrancesa]

That's tough. Not sure why that is not considered hard to play against. It's the same for the guy who takes endless punishment in front of the net. That takes toughness. Being strong on your skates like Kreider or even Miller or Ovechkin is tough. Hitting them hurts. Guys playing hurt are tough too. Fatigue and a punch in the nose makes cowards of most.

 

Let's be reasonable and understand these days it is not always about delivering that crushing cross check (which they should officiate out of hockey) or the board crashing hits. Vegas was tough last night. Just standing up to the Kings crap and then outskating them. Keeping them from mounting enough offensive attacks by using speed to outplay their physical bottom 6. And they strategically targeted Drew, as the place to finish their checks. Smart, fast and tough. Though not big.

 

Whatever it is it’s not being a vagina. The guy is gone. He was a very good player here. Played his ass off a lot of the times when he should have been on ir. He’s referenced as a giant vagina on a ranger fan site. Something wrong with that.

[josh]

Whatever it is it’s not being a vagina. The guy is gone. He was a very good player here. Played his ass off a lot of the times when he should have been on ir. He’s referenced as a giant vagina on a ranger fan site. Something wrong with that.

 

We are not talking about playing through injurie s. We are talking about being a tough team to play again st, some in your face hockey, make them keep their head up, setting the tone, standing strong, sticking up for eachother, not letting someone run your goalie

[Scott]

In my opinion hockey players are head and shoulders above any other athlete when it comes to playing in pain. But I don't tie the ability and willingness to play with pain to being tough to play against. Just because Vecsey gets his face jacked at least twice this year and comes back doesn't in anyway make him any tougher along the boards, in the corners or in the paint. Two totally different situations.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

but again, he should.

We dont need him mucking it up, with his PK abilities, and his fragile brain - he should not be involved.

 

He should have teammates that are cognizant of this.

 

I'm a tiny ass dude, but if someone was doing that to my injured player, star player, important player - I'm in the middle.

We never saw this.

 

This is what confuses me really. Im not the biggest dude either, but if someone did something to me or my teammates I would stand up for myself/them. This team just feels like a bunch of robots without feelings, just skating back to the bench regardless of what happens. Thats so freakin' annoying to watch.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Sidebar -- isn't it funny that the toughest organ on the planet?one that's literally births full human babies?is used to signify weakness?

 

Ironically, we've got this completely backwards. We should be calling these guys balls. You know, the things that with the lightest flick, send us to our knees in pain?

 

 

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Im glad I didnt read this high. That would be a serious wtf moment

[Gravesy]

 

Who here compared Schiefele to Hayes. :rofl:

 

I didn't compare them Eddie. Quite the opposite.

I said Scheifele is just one example of a really good player who uses his size to his advantage in a way Hayes doesn't.

[The Dude]

In my opinion hockey players are head and shoulders above any other athlete when it comes to playing in pain. But I don't tie the ability and willingness to play with pain to being tough to play against. Just because Vecsey gets his face jacked at least twice this year and comes back doesn't in anyway make him any tougher along the boards, in the corners or in the paint. Two totally different situations.

 

This. Over the years fans said the Rangers were a tough bunch, because they would get knocked down and come back for more. Playing through injuries and blocking tons of shots in the Torts days... I never thought any Rangers team played tough or were tough to play against.

 

They were a grit style team with very little grit in the Torts days. Blocking shots was their grit... I guess that can make things tough for opponents. But along the boards and infront of the net and hard to go to areas, the Rangers lacked the players that could/would do that. Oddly, Torts started with meat and potatoes, then gained Nash, Gaborik, Zucc and Kreider, yet didn't adjust the system for skilled players, instead demanding they still all block shots and dump and chase.

 

Then with AV they were a speedy team that didn't have much speed. The speed they did have didn't have all that much skill. Even still, they barely took chances or deviated from the norm or low risk AV hockey.

 

I know its a new NHL, and its different from just as little as 5 years ago, but come playoff time, it gets pretty close to the way it was. This team lacks the character of guys willing to skate through walls. Seems nobody has anybody's back. Nor are they willing to take one for the team.

 

They could really use a pest that has another use. I felt they should have brought in that Farnham kid they had in camp. At least to Hartford to have in the system. Hes a terrific pest that can skate and probably kill penalties. Hes not tough, but he brings an energy to a game. A presence that can set the tone if dispatched that way. A guy like Roussel would be a nice addition to this team. A definite pest but a guy that can play as well. Not shy about dropping the gloves either. Attitude can spread from players like this. They need to start there. Someone needs to be willing to play a little dirty some times. Get that player and give him that job, go from there. Hope it spreads.

 

(Says the poster who never coached lol)

[Fatfrancesa]

We are not talking about playing through injurie s. We are talking about being a tough team to play again st, some in your face hockey, make them keep their head up, setting the tone, standing strong, sticking up for eachother, not letting someone run your goalie

 

I don’t disagree with any of that. Characterizing a player who’s played through injury after injury and that literally gave you everything while he was here as a giant vagina is just wrong. He played 25 plus minutes a night on a broken ankle. To call him a giant vagina is not only without fact but it’s says a lot about your character not his.

This is not Odell Beckham refusing to play without an extension for fear of injury. This is not some baseball player not running out a ground ball or being out with a blister. This is not some nba guy missing a month with a bruise. All of those guys get paid way more. Mcd played through injury after injury and nobody ever had to question his effort or dedication to this team, city, or fan base. He’s a true professional and we’d be lucky to have every athlete in ny act with half the class he did while he was here. He like every player had holes to his game. Why the vitriol? Can it not be discussed without giving the guy an ounce of respect that he deserves. Did you have any good feelings for this player? Any respect for his tenure here?

 

How anybody can equate his influence to av’s is ridiculous. One controls ice time, the system in which they play, and roster decisions. One can scratch a guy if the player doesn’t comply with his view for the game. The other just played and tried to lead by example. He played the same game that got him named captain in the first place. Named captain again by the same coach who again holds the power and identity of his team. You don’t ask to become captain you are rewarded with it. The player the coach names captain can also be a message to his team on what the players should aspire to be.

[Fatfrancesa]

Somebody addressed this same issue in another thread. That we should not feel the need to shit on guys who were great rangers on the way out? They gave us a lot, they are defended when here, as soon as they leave they become the worst humans on earth who should have never made the nhl with their obvious lack of talent.

Zucc is going to be an interesting case if he’s moved.

[CBrowningPI]

Wtf is a boo boo face?

 

 

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When McD got hit a little hard he would pout and put on his booboo face. It's self explanatory.

 

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[Vodka Drunkenski]

Somebody addressed this same issue in another thread. That we should not feel the need to shit on guys who were great rangers on the way out? They gave us a lot, they are defended when here, as soon as they leave they become the worst humans on earth who should have never made the nhl with their obvious lack of talent.

Zucc is going to be an interesting case if he’s moved.

 

That's pretty much the same with any fanbase.

[Long live the King]

I don’t disagree with any of that. Characterizing a player who’s played through injury after injury and that literally gave you everything while he was here as a giant vagina is just wrong. He played 25 plus minutes a night on a broken ankle. To call him a giant vagina is not only without fact but it’s says a lot about your character not his.

This is not Odell Beckham refusing to play without an extension for fear of injury. This is not some baseball player not running out a ground ball or being out with a blister. This is not some nba guy missing a month with a bruise. All of those guys get paid way more. Mcd played through injury after injury and nobody ever had to question his effort or dedication to this team, city, or fan base. He’s a true professional and we’d be lucky to have every athlete in ny act with half the class he did while he was here. He like every player had holes to his game. Why the vitriol? Can it not be discussed without giving the guy an ounce of respect that he deserves. Did you have any good feelings for this player? Any respect for his tenure here?

 

How anybody can equate his influence to av’s is ridiculous. One controls ice time, the system in which they play, and roster decisions. One can scratch a guy if the player doesn’t comply with his view for the game. The other just played and tried to lead by example. He played the same game that got him named captain in the first place. Named captain again by the same coach who again holds the power and identity of his team. You don’t ask to become captain you are rewarded with it. The player the coach names captain can also be a message to his team on what the players should aspire to be.

 

Again that's not at all what josh is saying. He's not trashing McD. This is what Josh wants in a captain...

 

[video=youtube;TCwlRWlqF-A]

 

 

This is what Josh wants. He wants his captain to set the tone. Stick up for his guys. Giroux and Stamkos aren't fighters, the way you'd expect a Jamie Benn or Chara to drop the gloves, but they're still willing to stand up for their teammates. And that is 100% on the player. You think AV would survive benching McD because McD dropped the gloves to stick up for a teammate?

[phillyb]

This will always piss me off

 

[video=youtube;p7FfqhLd-qE]

[Fatfrancesa]

Again that's not at all what josh is saying. He's not trashing McD. This is what Josh wants in a captain...

 

[video=youtube;TCwlRWlqF-A]

 

 

This is what Josh wants. He wants his captain to set the tone. Stick up for his guys. Giroux and Stamkos aren't fighters, the way you'd expect a Jamie Benn or Chara to drop the gloves, but they're still willing to stand up for their teammates. And that is 100% on the player. You think AV would survive benching McD because McD dropped the gloves to stick up for a teammate?

 

I don’t disagree with you or him in what is needed or wanted. What you just said and calling him a giant vagina is not the same thing though. So the guy is a giant vagina for not dropping the gloves for a fight that probably ends up in somebody getting tackled but really never being hurt at all but he’s what playing on a broken ankle? To me anyway playing on the broken ankle would remove any talk of him being a pussy. Him getting hit and having a “boo boo face” yet there he is not missing a shift would again remove that label.

 

I love zucc but people pine for him to be captain next. Is he tough in the terms you guys describe? I think the guy is more of a pest and he’s another that lays it all out there. But he’s not punishing anyone for doing anything to a teammate. He’s probably not the guy getting into a teammates face either when needed because maybe I’m wrong but he’s the guy that keeps it “loose” in the locker room. That’s important too but what are we talking about here? It’s my opinion only but I don’t think mcd and giant vagina should ever be used together. Maybe he wasn’t the best captain that is completely fair. However he was the captain that this coach wanted to set the tone with how he carried himself. I hate av’s concept of the game I hated his passiveness from day 1. I hated his loose structure and defensive system. I hated his pick and choose accountability. I liked his professionalism though. He had some success here just not enough.

 

Three months ago you guys couldn’t believe how we could trade a guy like mcd while being in a playoff race. Three months ago I wanted a rebuild. We have come to a point where we agree mostly. I just never questioned these guys character. I thought they gave all they could but things just ran their course. I just don’t get why it’s come to the point of describing a player as a giant vagina that three months ago you could not get your head around trading no less the the ufas too. Three months ago these problems with him you describe didn’t exist. Three months ago this team had the pedigree to possibly contend with his vagina leadership. Of course I didn’t think they could contend then but not because he’s a giant vagina or really for anything having to do with mcd other than the entire team was not good enough.

 

I just don’t get what has changed so much since then concerning him. He was as class as they come, he played his ass off for this team. Nobody can ever think we got a raw deal from him or he didn’t play up to what he was paid. I won’t continue on with this discussion because to me there is really no other logical middle ground here. The guy deserves better than to be called a giant vagina by anyone who had the pleasure to watch his career here. Pointing out his faults and describing disappointments during his tenure here is more than fair. Wishing he would have dropped his gloves or hit with more purpose is fine too. In fact I don’t disagree. Calling somebody a giant vagina is not trashing somebody? On what planet can anybody take that as a term of endearment? How can anybody even have a discussion with somebody who isays that that is not trashing somebody and take them serious?

[RJWantsTheCup]

Ask Ovechkin if McD was tough to play against all those playoff years we eliminated the Caps.

 

The hit on Hank Skjei is right there watching the play and then skates away. Not sure what people see I. Skjei that warrants #1 LHD. In my opinion Pionk outplayed him by far while up and everyone wants him on third pair or 7th defenseman?

 

 

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[Fatfrancesa]

I get some on here don’t particularly like me and I really don’t care. I’m guessing though that if anyone else that you have an ounce of respect for said what I’m saying you would not continue this ridiculous argument. I’m a little surprised that there hasn’t been 1 other person here who takes exception to mcd being labeled like he is.

[phillyb]

For the record, the first time "boo boo face" was mentioned was in reference to this:

 

 

Then some hyperbole and sarcasm happened and now we're on to whether or not playing with a broken ankle qualifies you as a vagina.

I'm happy to see McDonagh go, not because his tenure here was bad, or because he didn't bring enough to the team, or he was a bad captain (something we'll never know), but because he doesn't fit where this team is going in the future. That and he's now injury-prone which makes me nervous.

[Fatfrancesa]

Agreed

[Long live the King]

I get some on here don’t particularly like me and I really don’t care. I’m guessing though that if anyone else that you have an ounce of respect for said what I’m saying you would not continue this ridiculous argument. I’m a little surprised that there hasn’t been 1 other person here who takes exception to mcd being labeled like he is.

 

What? This isn't junior high. I don't like or dislike anyone here, because I don't actually know anyone here. No one is debating that McD didn't give everything he had to this organization. Blood, sweat, and tears. Played through pain. Was a great dman for us. I understand you are ticked at Josh's choice of words, but it's blinding you to his point. He wants a captain that will take the initiative in sticking up for his teammates and setting the physical tone. McD wasn't that guy. That doesn't diminish everything else McD brought to the table.

[The Dude]

Again that's not at all what josh is saying. He's not trashing McD. This is what Josh wants in a captain...

 

[video=youtube;TCwlRWlqF-A]

 

 

This is what Josh wants. He wants his captain to set the tone. Stick up for his guys. Giroux and Stamkos aren't fighters, the way you'd expect a Jamie Benn or Chara to drop the gloves, but they're still willing to stand up for their teammates. And that is 100% on the player. You think AV would survive benching McD because McD dropped the gloves to stick up for a teammate?

 

Not sure that job falls soley on a captain. Especially one with a pudding head. I don't feel the captain needs to "lead by example" all the time to be an effective leader. McD can lead by playing the way the coach demands and sticking true to the system/gameplan. I don't feel its a requirement for him to fight. Maybe you have a few players on the team your captain just has to look to, to do something about it.

 

With that being said, I truly feel AV was strict about taking aggressive penalties, no matter the context. A lot of players games have changed under AV. McD being one of them. He came in as a physical, great skating, puck carrying D man with tons of offensive upside, as well as being very good in his own end. He left as a soft, stay at home D man.

 

McD did his job here. I don't blame him one bit for the little amount of balls this team played with. IMO, that was implemented by AV.

[josh]

Ask Ovechkin if McD was tough to play against all those playoff years we eliminated the Caps.

 

The hit on Hank Skjei is right there watching the play and then skates away. Not sure what people see I. Skjei that warrants #1 LHD. In my opinion Pionk outplayed him by far while up and everyone wants him on third pair or 7th defenseman?

 

 

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That was usually Girardi and Staal.

 

 

When it comes to Ovechkin and McDonagh, I dont think there is any question as to which one is tougher to play against.

[Slobberknocker]

I think that mac plays hard. i'm sure he has the bruises to show for it. however i just felt that at times he needed to get his nose dirty and go after a transgressor on the other team if that guy was taking liberties.

 

OV does it. Stamkos does it. Mess did it. A lot of you guys played the game. I would imagine most of you know when the unwritten rules have been broken. Mac knows it well too. He just never did anything about it.

 

Sometimes that's also being a bit of a bully when nothing has happened but as a captain you lead by example and try to spark the team.

 

i loved the "have a sac" speech the caps coach got caught on tape yelling that year on hbo when OV dropped the gloves to spark the team.

 

thats the kind of captain i want.