Future Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Well yeah he is neither a gamebreaker or winger. Nothing wrong with preferring the other options. Yet, looking for a different type of player is no reason to denigrate his prospects. There is a reason Foote is more highly valued to Yzerman than any Ranger Dman you mentioned besides Skjei. Foote was off limits to us, Hajek was not. No knock on Hajek, I'm optimistic about him. Foote was selected in the middle of last year's 1st round and so far it looks like a good pick. Dmen who have top 4 written all over them (no red flags) are very highly valued. Your projections seem to undervalue him. Where did Yzerman say that? And I didn't denigrate his prospects...he has no more upside than any of the guys I compared him to. Certainly less than Miller. Foote is a high floor, low ceiling pick who has red flags - he's not a great skater and hasn't produced at 5v5. He might not even have been a first rounder this year, last year was a much weaker draft class for defensemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Definitely need wingers back in return for taking on either of those contracts. The Rangers have about 6,347 D men in the system. Time to stock up on wingers. What do these two teams have to offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Definitely need wingers back in return for taking on either of those contracts. The Rangers have about 6,347 D men in the system. Time to stock up on wingers. What do these two teams have to offer? I named 3 wingers I like. Dunny named one from Ottawa who is a good prospect. There is Tampa's first too, which was also discussed. We've yet to deplete Tampa's stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWantsTheCup Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Unless Tampa & Ottawa are giving us can't miss prospects that aren't bottom pair defensemen or bottom six forwards I rather keep the cap space and not help Tampa get stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Unless Tampa & Ottawa are giving us can't miss prospects that aren't bottom pair defensemen or bottom six forwards I rather keep the cap space and not help Tampa get stronger.Tampa will be older and less potent by the time we're ready to compete. They can't keep their top talent locked up forever unless significant cap increases happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Tampa will be older and less potent by the time we're ready to compete. They can't keep their top talent locked up forever unless significant cap increases happen. Their top talent is already locked up forever. Stamkos, Kuch, Miller, Killorn, Johnson, Hedman and Mac are already locked up through at least 22-23. Assuming no other roster changes or cap increases, they're ~13.5m under the cap next year with only Point, Sergachev and maybe Stralman to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Their top talent is already locked up forever. Stamkos, Kuch, Miller, Killorn, Johnson, Hedman and Mac are already locked up through at least 22-23. Assuming no other roster changes or cap increases, they're ~13.5m under the cap next year with only Point, Sergachev and maybe Stralman to sign. Isnt 22-23 about the time when we should be able to have Cup aspirations? Figure 2 years from being competitive. 3-5 years from being serious Cup contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Isnt 22-23 about the time when we should be able to have Cup aspirations? Figure 2 years from being competitive. 3-5 years from being serious Cup contenders. Well sure - even though I think that's a little bit longer than it should take. But JTM is the only one not signed through 23-24. Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, Mac and presumably Point & Sergachev will all still be there. Plus whatever prospects they're able to retain and hit on - Foote, Katchouk, Raddysh, Cirelli. TBL's window is wide open right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Well sure - even though I think that's a little bit longer than it should take. But JTM is the only one not signed through 23-24. Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, Mac and presumably Point & Sergachev will all still be there. Plus whatever prospects they're able to retain and hit on - Foote, Katchouk, Raddysh, Cirelli. TBL's window is wide open right now. Given what we've seen, McD should not be in that list. He doesn't have that much time left, especially if they go 2 or 3 rounds deep in the playoffs every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Given what we've seen, McD should not be in that list. He doesn't have that much time left, especially if they go 2 or 3 rounds deep in the playoffs every year. Eh, I don't buy that. He can play 20:00 on the second pair for another 4-5 years easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 with his growing injury history i don't think he has another 400+ games in him where he'll be worth $6.75M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 with his growing injury history i don't think he has another 400+ games in him where he'll be worth $6.75M Ok, I don't think he's worth $6.75 now. But he is locked up and he is their second-best defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 And they will all be 3-4 years older. And they probably won't be able to keep much of a support cast. And your draft picks at 27 or 28 won't be the same as where you picked Stamkos and Hedman. I just don't see them being as good in 4-5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Ok, I don't think he's worth $6.75 now. But he is locked up and he is their second-best defenseman. So if you already don't think he's worth it, then it isn't beneficial to Tampa to have him signed through the next 8 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 So if you already don't think he's worth it, then it isn't beneficial to Tampa to have him signed through the next 8 years. Ok? That's never a part of anything that I said. All I said was that all of their top players are locked up and their window is open for a long time. Whether they overpaid for Mac or not is irrelevant. And overpaying a guy doesn't mean it's not beneficial to have him signed anyways, when you're competing for a cup.k The only way that matters is if the contract costs you something else, and TBL isn't in a position where that's going to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Ok? That's never a part of anything that I said. All I said was that all of their top players are locked up and their window is open for a long time. Whether they overpaid for Mac or not is irrelevant. And overpaying a guy doesn't mean it's not beneficial to have him signed anyways, when you're competing for a cup.k The only way that matters is if the contract costs you something else, and TBL isn't in a position where that's going to be the case. It most certainly does. If your paying McD $6.75M three years from now, and he's a shell of his former self, that hurts your window. That's the reason we bought out Girardi. They have about 3 years before McD is their new Callahan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 And they will all be 3-4 years older. And they probably won't be able to keep much of a support cast. And your draft picks at 27 or 28 won't be the same as where you picked Stamkos and Hedman. I just don't see them being as good in 4-5 years. In 4 years, Kilorn will be their oldest forward, at 33 and Stamkos will only be 32. Their supporting cast will be exactly the same, except they have to replace Cally, G, Coburn and maybe Stralman. Four years from now, with no roster adds or cap dumps, this could be their lineup: JTM - Stamkos - Kuch Palat - Point - Johnson Cirelli - Gourde - Killorn Katchouck - Paquette - Raddysh Hedman - Sergachev Mac - Stralman Dotchin - Foote Vasilevsky Domingue That's better than what they rolled out this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 It most certainly does. If your paying McD $6.75M three years from now, and he's a shell of his former self, that hurts your window. That's the reason we bought out Girardi. They have about 3 years before McD is their new Callahan. We bought out Girardi because we couldn't pay other guys. TBL doesn't have to do that. You're also assuming that McD is going to continue to regress, which is silly, because he's been the same player since 2014, and now he's going to get easier minutes. And again, this is not the point I'm making. The point is that they can roll with the exact roster they have now for another 5 years and be a contender. They don't have to do a single thing except extend their own guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 In 4 years, Kilorn will be their oldest forward, at 33 and Stamkos will only be 32. Their supporting cast will be exactly the same, except they have to replace Cally, G, Coburn and maybe Stralman. Four years from now, with no roster adds or cap dumps, this could be their lineup: JTM - Stamkos - Kuch Palat - Point - Johnson Cirelli - Gourde - Killorn Katchouck - Paquette - Raddysh Hedman - Sergachev Mac - Stralman Dotchin - Foote Vasilevsky Domingue That's better than what they rolled out this year. What's that salary cap look like with Point, Sergachev off of their ELCs and Gourde making close to 5 mil and Vas around 7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 We bought out Girardi because we couldn't pay other guys. TBL doesn't have to do that. You're also assuming that McD is going to continue to regress, which is silly, because he's been the same player since 2014, and now he's going to get easier minutes. And again, this is not the point I'm making. The point is that they can roll with the exact roster they have now for another 5 years and be a contender. They don't have to do a single thing except extend their own guys. How do they not have to pay anyone? Stralman UFA, Gourde UFA, Point and Serg off ELCs...Vas will be UFA 20-21... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 What's that salary cap look like with Point, Sergachev off of their ELCs and Gourde making close to 5 mil and Vas around 7? It's easy. In 21-22, with Point - 8 Gourde - 5 Serg - 6 Vas - 7 Foote - 5 Katchouk - 3 Raddysh - 3 Cirelli - 3 They'd only be at $87,320,000. That might be a little tight, but all it would mean is moving bottom of the lineup players, at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 How do they not have to pay anyone? Stralman UFA, Gourde UFA, Point and Serg off ELCs...Vas will be UFA 20-21... "If you didn't read the last line, it shows how little you pay attention to other people's posts, honestly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 It's easy. In 21-22, with Point - 8 Gourde - 5 Serg - 6 Vas - 7 Foote - 5 Katchouk - 3 Raddysh - 3 Cirelli - 3 They'd only be at $87,320,000. That might be a little tight, but all it would mean is moving bottom of the lineup players, at that point. Isn’t the CBA up in 20 or 21? Who knows what is going to happen at that point with salaries. Hell, we could lose another season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Isn’t the CBA up in 20 or 21? Who knows what is going to happen at that point with salaries. Hell, we could lose another season. Good point. Also expansion to consider. CBA ends in 2022 but I think they can terminate before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 "If you didn't read the last line, it shows how little you pay attention to other people's posts, honestly."Just when I think you can't possibly go more out of context, you've got a gem like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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