gdt: 2018 Off-Season Thread: #TradeSzn

[BrooksBurner]

Why would we have to resign him? Pipeline, baby. In 6 years one of the D we drafted last year or this year or next year will slot up.

 

Same thing we did with McD, really.

 

If Skjei proves worthy of a 6 year contract and lives up to his potential, he'll probably be an anchor on the blueline for us. That's not usually something you can just lose, especially since we should be a competitive team by then.

 

I'll take the bridge for the next 2 years, see how he does. If he's good, a 6-8 yr contract should be no problem. If he's not, you don't have another 4 years tied up into him.

 

With a rebuilding team, nothing should be handed out. You don't want to come back in 2 years and have a potential problem contract on your hands. This conversation would be much different if he was half as good as McD was when he got his contract.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

September 17/m/NYC

 

This deserves to be in the revealing age thread

[josh]

I wish I knew how to “slide into DMs”

[Pete]

If Skjei proves worthy of a 6 year contract and lives up to his potential, he'll probably be an anchor on the blueline for us. That's not usually something you can just lose, especially since we should be a competitive team by then.

 

I'll take the bridge for the next 2 years, see how he does. If he's good, a 6-8 yr contract should be no problem. If he's not, you don't have another 4 years tied up into him.

 

With a rebuilding team, nothing should be handed out. You don't want to come back in 2 years and have a potential problem contract on your hands. This conversation would be much different if he was half as good as McD was when he got his contract.

I think he's already proven his worth.

[BrooksBurner]

I think he's already proven his worth.

 

You didn't watch much hockey last year did you?

[josh]

Let’s get ready to ruuuuuummmmbbbbbllllllleeeee!!!!!!

[Pete]

Let?s get ready to ruuuuuummmmbbbbbllllllleeeee!!!!!!

Remember when I was saying people don't understand the difference between a bad player and a player who had a bad year? Now you know what I mean.

[josh]

Dumba re-signs for 5 years, 6m AAV

[BrooksBurner]

Remember when I was saying people don't understand the difference between a bad player and a player who had a bad year? Now you know what I mean.

 

Don't think anyone here called him a bad player. A solid rookie year and a bad sophomore year does not tell us enough. Ask Michael Del Zotto about that.

[Pete]

Don't think anyone here called him a bad player. A solid rookie year and a bad sophomore year does not tell us enough. Ask Michael Del Zotto about that.

Yeah, you're right. I guess the term sophomore slump came to be for absolutely no reason at all.

[BrooksBurner]

Yeah, you're right. I guess the term sophomore slump came to be for absolutely no reason at all.

 

Sorry. Don't buy into that nonsense as a blanket for all players. If you do, that's fine. I expect that.

[Pete]

Sorry. Don't buy into that nonsense as a blanket for all players. If you do, that's fine. I expect that.

This is what someone who doesn't really have a point posts.

 

Have a good weekend.

[BrooksBurner]

This is what someone who doesn't really have a point posts.

 

Have a good weekend.

 

Read your canned responses :rofl:

 

Have a wonderful weekend!

[Puck Head]

Yeah, you're right. I guess the term sophomore slump came to be for absolutely no reason at all.

 

I?d be hesitant to judge him with the mess of a roster and lack of structure we had last season.

 

Outside of Staal who is a 12 year journeyman, everyone else was well below average.

One of the greatest goaltenders is his generation was below league average.

 

It was a mess from top to bottom.

 

 

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[Pete]

I?d be hesitant to judge him with the mess of a roster and lack of structure we had last season.

 

Outside of Staal who is a 12 year journeyman, everyone else was well below average.

One of the greatest goaltenders is his generation was below league average.

 

It was a mess from top to bottom.

 

 

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Now now, be careful. You're making sense and not falling in line with the narrative.

[BrooksBurner]

I’d be hesitant to judge him with the mess of a roster and lack of structure we had last season.

 

Outside of Staal who is a 12 year journeyman, everyone else was well below average.

One of the greatest goaltenders is his generation was below league average.

 

It was a mess from top to bottom.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

You can't. That's why you don't give him a 6 year contract.

[Puck Head]

You can't. That's why you don't give him a 6 year contract.

 

I have to disagree

 

 

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[RodrigueGabriel]

Unless the coaches who worked him in practice day in and day out last year saw a major change in his mind (loss of confidence, drop in commitment, etc.) or his body (reduced energy, speed, eyesight problems, etc.; whatever the D-man equivalent is of losing 7 mph off your fastball.) that caused them to say "we may not have what we thought we had," then I think you proceed as if he had a bump in the road and sign him for at least 4. If you think there was a fundamental change in the product and you think he could be on a permanent plateau or downward trajectory, then you bridge. I haven't heard about any big crisis of either with Skjei, but I'm all armchair.

[Fatfrancesa]

I would think most could at least see both arguments here. Bridge or lock up.

[Giacomin]

Unless the coaches who worked him in practice day in and day out last year saw a major change in his mind (loss of confidence, drop in commitment, etc.) or his body (reduced energy, speed, eyesight problems, etc.; whatever the D-man equivalent is of losing 7 mph off your fastball.) that caused them to say "we may not have what we thought we had," then I think you proceed as if he had a bump in the road and sign him for at least 4. If you think there was a fundamental change in the product and you think he could be on a permanent plateau or downward trajectory, then you bridge. I haven't heard about any big crisis of either with Skjei, but I'm all armchair.

 

Excellent, excellent. Please stick around this forum, we all benefit from your perspective and temperament.

 

You hit the heart of the issue. Spending every day with a player is very conducive to assessing abilities, especially against his peers. For instance, player X has the hardest shot from the point, player Y the most accurate. This guy is fastest on the backcheck, this guy retrieves the puck effectively and moves it forward most efficiently, etc. There are thousands of elements to self scout. Familiarity should make the coaches impeccable experts.

 

Even the players will arrive at many similar conclusions. Everyone is usually making hundreds of comparisons during practice, unconsciously. It is critical that the coaches don't just file the info internally, but overshare with mgmt. This is one of the things some of the older breed of coaches think they are doing enough of, but they are not. ["Coaches coach and mgmt manages."] Thus they just provide a summary for mgmt, ultimately a disservice if one wants the best detailed personnel assessments.

 

Just watching every single game, we can scout a ton. Brady is clearly the most talented Dman at a number of key skills and sub skills. He also has attributes like speed and size. Young with no red flags. So one would assume the team would want to rebuild around it's best Dman and get him in the fold for 5 years at a manageable salary.

 

For those thinking bridge, consider this:

1. The Rangers are competitive in 2 years.

2. If you can assume good health for our two best young vet forwards... we basically locked Zib up, but we stand to lose Kreids just when he will be most useful. To keep him might require a 7-8 year overpayment for a power forward who likely starts declining just a couple of years into that big contract.

 

We fucked up. Again.

Time to stop making the same mistakes over and over.

[BrooksBurner]

Excellent, excellent. Please stick around this forum, we all benefit from your perspective and temperament.

 

You hit the heart of the issue. Spending every day with a player is very conducive to assessing abilities, especially against his peers. For instance, player X has the hardest shot from the point, player Y the most accurate. This guy is fastest on the backcheck, this guy retrieves the puck effectively and moves it forward most efficiently, etc. There are thousands of elements to self scout. Familiarity should make the coaches impeccable experts.

 

Even the players will arrive at many similar conclusions. Everyone is usually making hundreds of comparisons during practice, unconsciously. It is critical that the coaches don't just file the info internally, but overshare with mgmt. This is one of the things some of the older breed of coaches think they are doing enough of, but they are not. ["Coaches coach and mgmt manages."] Thus they just provide a summary for mgmt, ultimately a disservice if one wants the best detailed personnel assessments.

 

Just watching every single game, we can scout a ton. Brady is clearly the most talented Dman at a number of key skills and sub skills. He also has attributes like speed and size. Young with no red flags. So one would assume the team would want to rebuild around it's best Dman and get him in the fold for 5 years at a manageable salary.

 

For those thinking bridge, consider this:

1. The Rangers are competitive in 2 years.

2. If you can assume good health for our two best young vet forwards... we basically locked Zib up, but we stand to lose Kreids just when he will be most useful. To keep him might require a 7-8 year overpayment for a power forward who likely starts declining just a couple of years into that big contract.

 

We fucked up. Again.

Time to stop making the same mistakes over and over.

 

This supports a bridge. This is the exact boat you'll be in after a hypothetical 6 year contract to Skjei.

[Giacomin]

I would think most could at least see both arguments here. Bridge or lock up.

 

It is understandable that folks may have a different take on a player, especially one who was part of a mistake-filled, poorly performing D. People are often watching the game and the team emotionally and focusing on winning, not on individual evaluations.

 

There was a lot of bad last year and Skjei was a part of that. Yet, it is important to see what skillset a player brings and what is correctable. The problems in his game are correctable. Some of us did realize we weren't competing fairly early, and did watch mostly to evaluate.

 

Sidenote: One issue that has not been corrected is that Brady does not have a defensively capable partner to demonstrate his full potential. He'll need that to help neutralize top lines enough to be a winning team.

 

What I find difficult to understand is why fans want our better players to get to UFA. The good UFAs (or pending UFAs) under 30 are often getting 7/8 year deals, assuring we are on the hook for numerous declining years. These players are also very difficult to trade.

 

For arguments sake, is 2 x 5 mil really better than 5 x 5? I would argue it is much more risky and much worse. Trading Skjei in the middle of a reasonable 5 year deal will still be easy.

 

Hard would be the decision to go 7-8 years at 8 mil, when he is 27. Hard would be trying to trade him as a rental next year because we fear losing him as a UFA or fear that kind of term. These hard decisions are avoidable if we are smart up front.

[Pete]

It is understandable that folks may have a different take on a player, especially one who was part of a mistake-filled, poorly performing D. People are often watching the game and the team emotionally and focusing on winning, not on individual evaluations.

 

There was a lot of bad last year and Skjei was a part of that. Yet, it is important to see what skillset a player brings and what is correctable. The problems in his game are correctable. Some of us did realize we weren't competing fairly early, and did watch mostly to evaluate.

 

Sidenote: One issue that has not been corrected is that Brady does not have a defensively capable partner to demonstrate his full potential. He'll need that to help neutralize top lines enough to be a winning team.

 

What I find difficult to understand is why fans want our better players to get to UFA. The good UFAs (or pending UFAs) under 30 are often getting 7/8 year deals, assuring we are on the hook for numerous declining years. These players are also very difficult to trade.

 

For arguments sake, is 2 x 5 mil really better than 5 x 5? I would argue it is much more risky and much worse. Trading Skjei in the middle of a reasonable 5 year deal will still be easy.

 

Hard would be the decision to go 7-8 years at 8 mil, when he is 27. Hard would be trying to trade him as a rental next year because we fear losing him as a UFA or fear that kind of term. These hard decisions are avoidable if we are smart up front.

If you look around the league, players with Skjei's skill set are all being locked long term.

 

It's undeniable that he had a bad year last year. If you're the team, you use that information to drive his price down long term.

 

It's incredibly short sighted to use that as a reason to bridge him and play over double for an older player on a max term deal.

 

You can have Skjei 6x$5+ now for 24-30, or in 2 years potentially be looking at 8x$8 for 26-34...makes no sense.

 

Way market is going, in 2 season he's still tradeable with that cap hit, unless he becomes a total nightmare...which I seriously doubt happens.

[Giacomin]

This supports a bridge. This is the exact boat you'll be in after a hypothetical 6 year contract to Skjei.

 

Not really. Kreids will be in his last contract year during his 28 y/o season. Next year. Had we signed him to just the extra 2 years and paid just a bit more, he'd be locked up throgh his 30 y/o season. A 6 year contract locks Skjei up into his 30 y/o season also.

 

What are we going to do with Kreider next year? Assume he's the post blood clot player and the next two years are his best yet. We have a problem. Just when we are ready to compete, we have to let him go.

 

We have to have foresight. We will have a pipeline and can replace players at 31 years old. Skjei may have to be replaced at 26-27 if we bridge him. More waste. What a waste.

[Giacomin]

Don't think anyone here called him a bad player. A solid rookie year and a bad sophomore year does not tell us enough. Ask Michael Del Zotto about that.

 

We have good discussions, allow me to disagree specifically here.

 

On its face, this is a decent comparison for various reasons. Here is where it falls apart.

 

Besides Skjei being an overall much better hockey player with more size and a better skater, consider Skjei really had two very good years with the Rangers, even if one was partial. That partial season he proved his meddle and potential in the playoffs. His first full season he was a very good all year and a stud in the playoffs. That kind of performance two playoffs in a row, proved plenty. Del Zotto did not do that.

 

The other area it falls apart is with certain abilities. DZ could not skate backwards well and it became a liability Skjei will never face. DZ also got turned around or put out of position quickly due to his lesser ability to defend in the neutral and D zone. DZ would get muscled off the puck in his own zone where Skjei is less susceptible. He also isn't as efficient at moving the puck out when facing the boards. Skjei has better reach and extension which help him in both the O and D zone.

 

DZ made lots of bad decisions. Some were correctable like getting too deep when possession was in question or when no one was covering for him. He got better at that in Philly, yet still made too many unforced errors. Even last year, Skjei made less of those mistakes and they are even more correctable for him since he demonstrated hockey smarts in the past.