Future Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Still curious why Columbus, who has never in their history won a playoff series, became a measuring stick for a contender. Also that history is important for that team. Winning a round or two would be a good thing for that franchise and probably measured a success. Again, nobody said that. Again, if 14 wins is a barometer for the Rangers, then it also has to be for CBJ. It doesn't matter who that other team is, specifically. If history is an important measuring stick then the only teams we should consider contenders in the East are Pitt and Boston, because they're the only champions to come out of the East in the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 14 wins is not the only barometer. Stated it multiple times. 60 minutes efforts, advanced metrics, shots allowed, giving up high end scoring chances in droves are all in that consideration. Issues on the defense and center are also significant holes that only get magnified in a series, no less 4 series if lucky enough. Listing the teams who I think are contenders would only drive this post off track with needless arguments. Just the caps alone would take pages alone going both ways I’d guess. So I’ll list them but I’m not getting into it past this post. The Atlantic I’d say Tampa heavily and Boston with a mix of experience and youth. Metro caps and pens regardless of standings just because obvious for pens and the caps I’ll always say have a chance but even them it’s hard to be confident they can get over the hump. Out west the kings and Nashville are the top two with everyone else capable of runs but probably not a cup. History does matter. For teams like Columbus winning a playoff series would be a big deal. It may also be the difference in them making money not and securing season ticket holders for next year. Fortunately the rangers do not have those concerns. They will remain sold out and printing money regardless. A playoff run adds to the bottom line but has little bearing on ticket sales going forward. My point regarding history had nothing to do with them being legit contenders or not just why that team who has zero, literally zero success, in the post season as the team to measure themselves against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 And josh I do think Columbus is a good team for all the reasons you listed. So now that you listed their strengths without the record can you do the same for the rangers? That goes for everybody. Forget record. Make the case for the Rangers as contenders Here’s mine. Hank. It ends there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Strong forward depth, great speed, PP struggling but they have the guys, great PK, relentless on the forecheck, team weakness is they dont show up and lack an on-ice leader. Every line is a threat to score multiple goals a game. If they play their system, and skate, theres not too many teams that can keep up. (unfortunately, those teams that can keep up are in their division, lol) contenders? probably not. do they have a change? yes. (I dont think Columbus is better than the Rangers, necessarily) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Strong forward depth, great speed, PP struggling but they have the guys, great PK, relentless on the forecheck, team weakness is they dont show up and lack an on-ice leader. Every line is a threat to score multiple goals a game. If they play their system, and skate, theres not too many teams that can keep up. (unfortunately, those teams that can keep up are in their division, lol) contenders? probably not. do they have a change? yes. (I don think Columbus is better than the Rangers, necessarily) Fair enough. My thoughts on that is yes they have forward depth but not at center. I think it matters but maybe more than you. Speed is decent but why Kreider out that takes a huge hit. I also think that their speed has been largely minimized since 14 because the league in general has caught up in a lot of cases Power play is a crap shoot for everyone come playoff time. It’s almost like getting the hot goalie. You don’t know for sure who will get it. Rangers could get hot there and they’d have to to have a chance Pk is good Forecheck couldn’t disagree more. Way to many one and done. Also possession numbers and shots for and against say different as do my eyes I do think the rangers can win a round maybe 2 if everything broke right. I just think their issues would eventually be exposed. They always are and it’s why it’s so hard to win. The 60 minute effort thing is a huge concern. They lost last year mainly for that reason. They have done nothing this year to dull those concerns. Not sure how anyone being reasonable can expect a switch to be flipped when you are going on basically three years of the same issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 14 wins is not the only barometer. Stated it multiple times. 60 minutes efforts, advanced metrics, shots allowed, giving up high end scoring chances in droves are all in that consideration. Issues on the defense and center are also significant holes that only get magnified in a series, no less 4 series if lucky enough. Listing the teams who I think are contenders would only drive this post off track with needless arguments. Just the caps alone would take pages alone going both ways I’d guess. So I’ll list them but I’m not getting into it past this post. The Atlantic I’d say Tampa heavily and Boston with a mix of experience and youth. Metro caps and pens regardless of standings just because obvious for pens and the caps I’ll always say have a chance but even them it’s hard to be confident they can get over the hump. Out west the kings and Nashville are the top two with everyone else capable of runs but probably not a cup. History does matter. For teams like Columbus winning a playoff series would be a big deal. It may also be the difference in them making money not and securing season ticket holders for next year. Fortunately the rangers do not have those concerns. They will remain sold out and printing money regardless. A playoff run adds to the bottom line but has little bearing on ticket sales going forward. My point regarding history had nothing to do with them being legit contenders or not just why that team who has zero, literally zero success, in the post season as the team to measure themselves against. How does it take the thread off track? The thread is about being sellers or not. The Rangers' place in the standings in relation to the contenders' place in the standings is very much relevant. None of those teams in the east you listed are scary and LA has lost 4 in a row and is barley clinging to a wild card spot. If that is your list of contenders, the Rangers are very much in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Ok great. So can you tell me what is the reason you think the rangers are that team that has a chance? So far it just seems like they are just as good or bad as anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Well, against Tampa 1-0-0 (OT), Boston 2-0-0 (1 OT win), Washington 1-1-0 (SO win), Pitt 1-1-1, Nash 1-0-0, LA 1-0-0. So in actual games played against the contenders the Rangers are 7-2-1, and that's with injuries to Zib, Hayes, Kreider, and McD. So ok great. Why are those teams so much better? I get it 14 regulation wins, the Rangers have issues. Every team has issues and we beat the teams at the top of the league head to head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Still didn’t tell me why you think the rangers are contenders. Not hard josh did a good job. 14 wins, seriously. Can you read. I’ve given you 75 reasons why. You may not agree, that’s fine. Can you have a discussion without being belligerent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Still didn’t tell me why you think the rangers are contenders. Not hard josh did a good job. 14 wins, seriously. Can you read. I’ve given you 75 reasons why. You may not agree, that’s fine. Can you have a discussion without being belligerent? I was belligerent? Did I ask you if you could read? I provided the Rangers record against the teams you consider contenders. The Rangers have done quite well against those teams over 10 games, a fairly large sample size. Is winning actual hockey games not a reason to believe the Rangers could complete with said teams? I'm fine having a discussion, you're the one providing confrontational responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Guys, after spending over a month in the area, Tampa is formidable. It was clear they are better because of their play, consistency, high end talent and complete roster. Their best players consistently deliver. They lost Hedman for more than a month, and any team will be less scary if they suffer a few key injuries. Barring that, lookout. The Bruins have been surprisingly impressive. Their dmen have been awesome. Their top line rivals the best in the NHL. Coaching is much better now. The Caps are playing very well again and they have the horses to sustain this pace. Toronto is apiece or two away, but very dynamic . Over in the West, let's just say we are not playing in the same league as Nashville. They look like they did in the playoffs. And as good as they are watch out for the Jets. My pick for the finals. They are fast, loaded, great chemistry and balance. Now they have the goaltending too. Doing it w/o Sheifele too. LA hit a mini slump, let's see how long it lasts, but they are contenders. St Louis has been solid. Better injury luck and they could be a favorite. Do I even bring up Vegas? It seems crazy to compare the Rangers to the teams above. We have not been as good and our roster does not project us into that trajectory. With the giant holes at center and a #1 RHD and the longterm injury to Kreids we are seriously impaired. Until we string a bunch together on the road, I'd put us a tier below all those teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 and that's why we play the games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Tampa should tread lightly. Only three times since the lockout has the team that won the President's Trophy played in the Stanley Cup finals, winning 2 and losing one. The President's Trophy winning team has lost in the first round 4 times, and failed to advance past the 2nd round an additional 4 times. Seems like dominating the regular season tends to make team a little over confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I was belligerent? Did I ask you if you could read? I provided the Rangers record against the teams you consider contenders. The Rangers have done quite well against those teams over 10 games, a fairly large sample size. Is winning actual hockey games not a reason to believe the Rangers could complete with said teams? I'm fine having a discussion, you're the one providing confrontational responses. You keep bring up the same tired 14 game shit. I’ve given you post after post of reasons why they aren’t winning shit. So yes I’m asking you why do you keep bringing up the same thing. How does it move the conversation along. If your going to pick and choose tid bits and act like that is my argument than yes it is being belligerent. It’s yet another post of the same thing. Maybe this is easier. 4 tickets to a Stanley cup final game for say $100 from you. I’ll take PayPal. The tickets are worth minimum $3000. Section 224 row 20 with aisle seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Clarify that is a bet. If the rangers get there I will give them to you for $100. If they don’t I keep the $100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Well, against Tampa 1-0-0 (OT), Boston 2-0-0 (1 OT win), Washington 1-1-0 (SO win), Pitt 1-1-1, Nash 1-0-0, LA 1-0-0. So in actual games played against the contenders the Rangers are 7-2-1, and that's with injuries to Zib, Hayes, Kreider, and McD. So ok great. Why are those teams so much better? I get it 14 regulation wins, the Rangers have issues. Every team has issues and we beat the teams at the top of the league head to head. Actually I'm not just bringing up the same thing. Did you skip this part? Because you still haven't addressed the fact the Rangers, despite their flaws, have fared very well against the contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I know their record but like I originally asked forget the record give me a breakdown of why the rangers are contenders? Their defense? They are a matchup nightmare. Obviously they have the goaltending. Other than that what do they have? Beating somebody in November or by a shootout is not the same thing as beating 4 out of 7 games. Surely you know that and you also know that the nhl season ramps up and up. The quality of play improves each month and the games tighten. If you put added stock in head to head records ok that’s fair. Again though what do you make of the things josh and I just discussed? Do you have an opinion or is the record enough. If it is then great I’m moving on and we can revisit come parade time or pitchfork time. If I’m wrong I’ll gladly say so and trust me be very happy that I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Strong forward depth, great speed, PP struggling but they have the guys, great PK, relentless on the forecheck, team weakness is they dont show up and lack an on-ice leader. Every line is a threat to score multiple goals a game. If they play their system, and skate, theres not too many teams that can keep up. I agree, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 To be fair I thought 2016 they had no chance last year I thought they did. In 2016 I stated it on the old site to. When the pens blew them away I was told it’s easy to pick them not to win. I’m not saying I know who will win. I have no idea. I can tell you this is not a Stanley cup team. For all the reasons I stated having nothing to do with their record or 14 now 15 wins. Teams with Nick Holden on their top pair and their centers should be enough. Throw in Kreider being done and mcd having his worst season should ice it. I would expect him to raise his play but remember most thought Holden was solid until he got a taste of playoff hockey. Also this year there is no easy path. Last year the Atlantic was a path paved in gold this year good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I agree, Lol ok I’ll move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 That same record if viewed by the opponents totals 3-4-3. Not quite as formidable as 7-2-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Ok now Ill move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Look at how you start your post, why? You want good discussion then stop. I’ve stopped days ago with the crap and you continue. ? Please do explain? You can't be the victim when you are the one who came in swinging. You also fail to comment on the rest of the post. I don't know what you are referring to about the start. Why what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 For what it’s worth I don’t know who made a team who has never in history won a playoff series a favorite. If you’re saying the hockey insiders did well those same insiders are saying right now that the rangers are not real contenders ? What does their history have to do with anything? Only great historical franchises can be contenders? Guess you should stop being a Ranger fan then.. With that hole 80 years of futility you love to bring up. ?????? I guess only the Penguins, and Montreal are the only true contenders. You know because of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 History meaning. They have never won s pkayoff series. Rarely does a team go from having zero playoff success to winning the cup. Typically teams grow into a cup team. It had nothing to do with the history of the league. Columbus the past three years lost round 1, missed the playoffs, lost round 1. Thought it was an odd choice of a peer that’s all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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