[brooks] Rangers Getting Alarmingly Close to Forcing Jeff Gorton's Hand

[Guest]

That's the only logical statement to not take Marner or Nylander, in this discussion .

 

Actually, Marner could be OK for the Oilers. He's got one more year after this on his ELC. That would give them an extra year to win a Cup and also figure their shit out.

[Guest]

You know what..,

 

No. These are guys you make cap space for, now and in the future.

 

If you want a team that's so top heavy you can't add needed depth or fix your defense, then sure. But Future's original point stands. A team's make up is important when evaluating any potential trade. MORE for the sake of MORE is a losing strategy in cap league. You need a balance of top end scoring, depth forwards, top end defense, depth defense and at least capable goaltending. You throw any of those things out in favor of extra at any spot and you're just not going to win.

[josh]

If you want a team that's so top heavy you can't add needed depth or fix your defense, then sure. But Future's original point stands. A team's make up is important when evaluating any potential trade. MORE for the sake of MORE is a losing strategy in cap league. You need a balance of top end scoring, depth forwards, top end defense, depth defense and at least capable goaltending. You throw any of those things out in favor of extra at any spot and you're just not going to win.

 

Best teams are top heavy.

 

I've wanted to be top heavy for years.

[phillyb]

Transcribed without a lot of "ummmms" and "you knows" but this excerpt was taken from a AV's pregamer today. I wish I heard the question better.

 

Turnovers have been in little spurts and they've been evident. But I'm looking at the other 90% of our game and it's good. It's good checking and it's good with the puck. We're gonna make some mistakes, we can't be perfect. You just gotta understand that first minute of the period, that last minute of the period, you gotta make the right plays so that you build a little momentum and that's what um...maybe in our case has just been lacking a little bit so...I don't want to overanalyze our game because I feel we're doing a lot of good things right now and gotta go out tonight and play.

 

IDK how to link to the FB vid, but it's on this page - https://www.facebook.com/pg/nyrangers/videos/

[ThirtyONE]

I just got a text that Ruff is leading the am skate from a reliable source.... lets not read too much into it just yet.

 

Moring skate is for scratched players. You don't need a "reliable source" for that that kind of news.

[Future]

Best teams are top heavy.

 

I've wanted to be top heavy for years.

The best teams (Chicago, Pitt) tanked for multiple seasons to get the pieces that made them top heavy. LAK only had one top 5 pick in Doughty, but Schenn (5 overall) was a key piece in getting Richards and Carter.

 

Long story short, you don't get top heavy without having top-5 picks. The Rangers haven't tanked, so they have had to try to win with depth. Trading Mac for Marner or Nylander might make them top heavy, but they'd be an AHL team defensively.

[ThirtyONE]

The best teams (Chicago, Pitt) tanked for multiple seasons to get the pieces that made them top heavy. LAK only had one top 5 pick in Doughty, but Schenn (5 overall) was a key piece in getting Richards and Carter.

 

Long story short, you don't get top heavy without having top-5 picks. The Rangers haven't tanked, so they have to win with depth.

 

Maybe we'll get lucky and this year will be the year.

[Abe Froman]

#suckforacup

 

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[josh]

We don't draft well and have a terrible development system.

 

Teams best players are a 7th rd pick, a trade, a free agent and a free agent. And we also traded for The rest of our first line.

 

Our best picks - one is about to get bought out, one is the biggest frustration for fans, and the other shows up for 1 month out of the season.

[Puck Head]

Well that depends, what's the context? If I'm rebuilding and don't plan on winning any time in the near future, then yea, they're probably the choice. If I want to win right now, I'm taking any one of Zib, Miller, Zucc, Nash, Kreider before them.

 

It also really depends on how a lineup is constructed.

 

Nylander and Marner had 61 points each last season as 19 year olds.

There is no forward on our roster any team would take before those two.

 

 

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[The Dude]

Nylander and Marner had 61 points each last season as 19 year olds.

There is no forward on our roster any team would take before those two.

 

 

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This. And the claim that they are playing bottom six minutes.... Look who they are playing behind?

 

Marner or Nylander would be the best players on this team RIGHT NOW. That's not a shot at Zib. I like that guy, but both of these guys could walk on this team right now and be the definite first line center and go to guys.

[Puck Head]

I think they are about as good as any forward we have now

Factor in age and contract and Skjei is he closest player we have in value

 

 

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[Respecttheblue]

Ranger fans overrating their players again? Laine, kucherov, draisitl, barkov, schiffle straight up for Mcd? Too funny

 

"Disirregardless" of the trades proposed the way Ya say "Ranger fans" sounds vaguely troll-like. Surely not ?

[ASH1962]

The worst team in Hockey drafts 1 no? So maybe we will finally be able to get a McDavid type of player in June.

[siddious]

The worst team in Hockey drafts 1 no? So maybe we will finally be able to get a McDavid type of player in June.

 

not necessarily. there is a lottery between the worst 3 or 5 (i forget) teams for the #1 pick.

[Giacomin]

not necessarily. there is a lottery between the worst 3 or 5 (i forget) teams for the #1 pick.

 

All non-playoff teams receive a descending chance of getting one of the top 3 picks. After the ping pong balls for the top 3 are selected, the remaining teams are ordered, from worst to least worst,

[siddious]

All non-playoff teams receive a descending chance of getting one of the top 3 picks. After the ping pong balls for the top 3 are selected, the remaining teams are ordered, from worst to least worst,

 

isnt there a rule where you cant move back more than 3 spots or something like that as well?

[Giacomin]

isnt there a rule where you cant move back more than 3 spots or something like that as well?

 

Nothing specifically says that (that I've read) but essentially that is how it works out. Read what I wrote and that means the team with the worst record can pick no worse than 4th. And they have the best % chance to score a pick in the top 3. Thus the second shitiest team will pick no worse than 5th, etc.

[josh]

Something inside me is yelling Edmonton. And with that, I looked around our favorite trade proposal site... no, the better one, cap friendly. I see Edmonton fans are very open to making some moves. I could see big, or small moves, but they seem to be a decent match.

 

Small:

Grabner for Kassian

- They need some captive PKers, and Grabner's speed could really add to that team. While originally slotted as a 4th liner, he could really fit anywhere in that lineup. EDM already has some big boys in Lucic and Maroon, and Nurse on the back end. Rangers get much needed toughness, and salaries are almost a wash, with Kassian due an extra year.

 

Medium:

Miller for RNH

Pretty self explanatory. Both are buried on their respective teams and would move up to the 2nd line on their new perspective teams. Rangers add a bit of salary, so maybe Holden on one side, prospects on a other side

 

Big:

Draisaitl for McDonagh (core)

Edmonton is in win now. Rangers are in panic mode. Edmonton has the fire power up front, now and in the future. Although this might not be their favorite option, its hard to deny the impact it could make on their team. Also, I've never been a fan of Klefbom, although solid, just doesn't sell me as a top line guy. I think the Rangers have to add a bit, but possibly Kreider + McDonagh for Draisaitl + Nurse.

 

 

Maybe I'll throw that up on cap friendly and see the responses. What are your thoughts?

[Future]

Kassian is a bad player, especially for this system. He'd only be impactful by being a goon, and that doesn't really make us better.

 

RNH doesn't change any of the Rangers problems. I wouldn't mind bringing him in for a pick/prospect, actually I think he'd be a really smart add, but he doesn't do anything to change the culture of the team, especially if you flip one of your two or three best forwards for him.

 

Like the other thread talking about trading Mac for a forward, you're killing the NYR defense completely by doing this. I could probably be OK with the trade you have there, but I don't think EDM does that. Cap implications aside, that's a major downgrade at forward and a marginal improvement on the blueline - Nurse is a good player and they have good Lefty/Righty balance on D right now in the top 4. Unless Klefbom plays the right side with Russel, adding another lefty doesn't make any sense. And Klefbom/Russel as a pair is not much different than Mac/G.

[Giacomin]

I could probably be OK with the trade you have there, but I don't think EDM does that. Cap implications aside, that's a major downgrade at forward and a marginal improvement on the blueline - Nurse is a good player and they have good Lefty/Righty balance on D right now in the top 4. Unless Klefbom plays the right side with Russel, adding another lefty doesn't make any sense. And Klefbom/Russel as a pair is not much different than Mac/G.

 

Future, you "could probably be OK with that trade". You are cracking me up. You make that trade w/o hesitation and you high five anyone who cares.

Cap smap.

 

However, you are right. Edm never makes that trade. Leon is going nowhere for quite a while. Yet, Edm would value McD highly regardless of Nurse and Klef (who plays the right side).

[Giacomin]

Something inside me is yelling Edmonton. And with that, I looked around our favorite trade proposal site... no, the better one, cap friendly. I see Edmonton fans are very open to making some moves. I could see big, or small moves, but they seem to be a decent match.

 

Small:

Grabner for Kassian

- They need some captive PKers, and Grabner's speed could really add to that team. While originally slotted as a 4th liner, he could really fit anywhere in that lineup. EDM already has some big boys in Lucic and Maroon, and Nurse on the back end. Rangers get much needed toughness, and salaries are almost a wash, with Kassian due an extra year.

 

Medium:

Miller for RNH

Pretty self explanatory. Both are buried on their respective teams and would move up to the 2nd line on their new perspective teams. Rangers add a bit of salary, so maybe Holden on one side, prospects on a other side

 

Big:

Draisaitl for McDonagh (core)

Edmonton is in win now. Rangers are in panic mode. Edmonton has the fire power up front, now and in the future. Although this might not be their favorite option, its hard to deny the impact it could make on their team. Also, I've never been a fan of Klefbom, although solid, just doesn't sell me as a top line guy. I think the Rangers have to add a bit, but possibly Kreider + McDonagh for Draisaitl + Nurse.

 

 

Maybe I'll throw that up on cap friendly and see the responses. What are your thoughts?

 

Josh, Edm is not trading Draisatl, forget about him. After the big 3 young kids, he and Kucherov are probably the most untouchable young forwards in the league.

 

I'd love to add RNH, but not really for Miller. Edm does not need to really think about trading him till the off season anyway and the GM seems committed to that. That means he probably needs a really strong offer at this point.

[Future]

Future, you "could probably be OK with that trade". You are cracking me up. You make that trade w/o hesitation and you high five anyone who cares.

Cap smap.

 

However, you are right. Edm never makes that trade. Leon is going nowhere for quite a while. Yet, Edm would value McD highly regardless of Nurse and Klef (who plays the right side).

How is there not hesitation? We don't know what Draisaitl is without McDavid. He's a tremendous talent, but maybe that only translates to being a secondary scoring winger. To cripple your defense for who knows how many years, of course there's hesitation.

 

I don't think Klefbom plays the right. He's generally paired with Larsson, who is a righty. I don't think they have both of them playing their off side.

[4EverRangerFrank]

Kreider is a hot mess. Too many shifts off. I?m at the point where a ?good? trade might just shake this team up.

 

What about you guys?

[josh]

Josh, Edm is not trading Draisatl, forget about him. After the big 3 young kids, he and Kucherov are probably the most untouchable young forwards in the league.

 

I'd love to add RNH, but not really for Miller. Edm does not need to really think about trading him till the off season anyway and the GM seems committed to that. That means he probably needs a really strong offer at this point.

 

giving up Drais for Kreider, McDonagh & keeping Lucic and RNH.

 

A stretch, but I don't think its too outlandish. You never know.

They have a ton of fire power, and even more coming up the ranks.