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Rangers Getting Alarmingly Close to Forcing Jeff Gorton's Hand


Phil
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There is no indication that a change behind the bench or in the uniformed personnel is imminent, but everyone?s antenna should be up around the Garden because what we?ve seen from the Rangers is not even close to good enough.

 

?I can?t think about whether there could be changes. That?s not my job or focus,? Mats Zuccarello said after the Blueshirts fell to 1-5 with Saturday night?s 3-2 defeat to the Devils at the Garden. ?For me as an individual and for us as a team, we have to go day by day and try to improve.

 

?When you lose five out of six any time, it?s tough, and it?s probably tougher when it comes at the start. We?re just not playing well enough.?

 

It is difficult to determine whether the Rangers, who dominated the young and fresh Devils for the first 25 minutes and the final 15, but yielded three goals while going AWOL for those other 20 minutes, need shock treatment ? Darryl Sutter, anyone? ? or simply a tune-up.

 

This is a team that has had only three coaches since the NHL reopened for business in 2005-06 ? Tom Renney followed by John Tortorella followed by Alain Vigneault ? and whose ownership and management values stability. But 1-5, while looking disorganized much of the time, tends to prompt careful examination of the program.

 

http://nypost.com/2017/10/15/rangers-getting-alarmingly-close-to-forcing-jeff-gortons-hand/

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I think it's still a little too early to talk changes. Maybe within the first 15-20 games, but not after the first 6. They were 1-4-0 to start 13-14 and then went on to the Cup finals then. Not to say that this team can replicate, but to say that we've seen the team turn it around under this coaching staff.

 

I think it's certainly concerning though. This team is hard to have expectations for. They're not very good on paper. You have to rely a lot on potential. The players are definitely a big issue. There's no one who drives play.

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I disagree, Drew. If they let this spin out that long, they run the risk of seriously losing the entire season. If you wait until they go 3-15-2, there's no coming back.

 

But like you mentioned, this is also an issue of inferior talent. They lack any threatening center depth or goal-scoring. The only game-breaking talent they do have is in net, and that varies night-to-night.

 

I'm starting to think the bill has arrived and there's no more stalling to avoid paying it. Missing the playoffs and strategically rebuilding is probably a requirement at this point.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

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I disagree, Drew. If they let this spin out that long, they run the risk of seriously losing the entire season. If you wait until they go 3-15-2, there's no coming back.

 

But like you mentioned, this is also an issue of inferior talent. They lack any threatening center depth or goal-scoring. The only game-breaking talent they do have is in net, and that varies night-to-night.

 

I'm starting to think the bill has arrived and there's no more stalling to avoid paying it. Missing the playoffs and strategically rebuilding is probably a requirement at this point.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

Totally get where you're coming from. I just think that with the way this management has worked in the past we're more likely to see a bit of a wait out approach.

 

How the team proceeds in terms of personnel is key. You can fire AV and bring someone else in, but don't expect that this team can suddenly be a winner. The odds of that happening are too low. The Penguins turned around hard under Sullivan but they also have talent I don't even have to bother listing to prove my point. The Rangers can still "build on the fly" to a certain extent, but that may mean having to sacrifice this season if they can get enough pieces fast enough.

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Dunno. I think it depends on performance most likely, and probably who ends up being made available and also on what the front office decides is the best course of action for the next few years. The team's basically treading water as it is with not very much promise outside of foot soldiers coming up the pipe. Oddly, the only potentially truly impressive prospect is the Russian goalie who is probably 2-4 years from maybe bring an NHL starter anyway.

 

I almost think that whoever is coaching doesn't matter. They'd be best served trading veterans for prospects and picks for this season and maybe next, too. Then come at the league in full force after a few key, strategic adds and hopefully be a threatening team again by 2019 or 2020.

 

 

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It all depends how these next 5 games at home go IMO. If we come out 1-4 or less, that leaves you 2-9 at best, and that's a hell of a long way back even at this early stage, and considering the division we are in.

 

Firing AV won't get us in the playoffs, but at least it might stop the bleeding and start to build up something for next year in terms of mentality and style of play.

 

On the plus side, a couple of decent 1st round picks in back to back years doesn't hurt.

 

 

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I don't think it'll happen but if it spins out of control,any chance they Trade McD?

Him or Skjei probabaly have most value and I don't see Skjei getting moved

 

I'm probably in a very small minority but I'd contemplate trading McDonagh. It makes little sense to trade the single most competent defender you have, but he has inarguably the most value via trade and his upcoming contract will only be more difficult for the Rangers to fit in. I don't think there's anyone in particular that should really be safe though. If you trade McDonagh though you're basically admitting to tearing things down.

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Think any number of non-Zib/Miller forwards become trade bait-Kreider, Vesey, Hayes, Zucc, Buch, Nash. SImply if they aren't producing, why not. There has to be some changes here, whether that's a trade, bringing up kids, or a HC change.

 

Igor is a least a season away and Lundqvist's contract makes him perhaps the most worthless trading piece in the NHL.

 

Trading McD is crazy.

 

Small sample and all that, but the late game collapses would indicate this is not a well-conditioned team. This franchise has always had a country club atmosphere spare when Tortarella was the HC. Even if it isn't that, players are way too comfortable right now.

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I'm probably in a very small minority but I'd contemplate trading McDonagh. It makes little sense to trade the single most competent defender you have, but he has inarguably the most value via trade and his upcoming contract will only be more difficult for the Rangers to fit in. I don't think there's anyone in particular that should really be safe though. If you trade McDonagh though you're basically admitting to tearing things down.

 

I wouldn't mind tearing it down. Trading McD should definitely be on the table then. Obviously would want to move Lundqvist as well but that would be a tough contract to take on.

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Think any number of non-Zib/Miller forwards become trade bait-Kreider, Vesey, Hayes, Zucc, Buch, Nash. SImply if they aren't producing, why not. There has to be some changes here, whether that's a trade, bringing up kids, or a HC change.

 

Igor is a least a season away and Lundqvist's contract makes him perhaps the most worthless trading piece in the NHL.

 

Trading McD is crazy.

 

Shestyorkin still has a couple years to go. He still has that one year remaining on his contract and he'll likely have to play behind or in tandem with Lundqvist first.

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I still can't believe the amount of people that are willing to defend the years of sell-your-soul trades for a shot at the Cup. Got in a half hour debate with one of my friends last night watching the game. This team's current shit situation, and lack of any real future, is a direct result of convincing ourselves we were one piece away for the past 5-6 years. The Nash trade was dumb, the MSL trade was dumber, the Yandle trade was dumber than that, and the Eric Staal trade was the worst we've made in decades.

 

All those years we could've been patient, and continued to stockpile picks and sell off old talent as it become too expensive. We could've been competitive for a decade, possibly for the foreseeable future, instead of 2-3 years. Instead, we have about $25 mil tied up in over-the-hill underperforming players, no game-breaking talents, a barren prospect cupboard, and exactly one real center in a league where centers have arguably become the most important position.

 

This team is in for Dark Ages 2.0. That's the price we pay for short-sightedness. Don't be surprised if you see 3-4 consecutive years without a playoff berth in the near future.

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I'm probably in a very small minority but I'd contemplate trading McDonagh. It makes little sense to trade the single most competent defender you have, but he has inarguably the most value via trade and his upcoming contract will only be more difficult for the Rangers to fit in. I don't think there's anyone in particular that should really be safe though. If you trade McDonagh though you're basically admitting to tearing things down.

 

Over the summer I was toying around with writing out a lengthy piece regarding trading McDonagh. That's not going to happen, but here are some of my notes:

 

Due a contract

Current deal expires offseason 2019, 2 seasons remaining

Current cap hit $4.7 for 6 years sign on July 8, 2013

Expected cap hit $7m+ 7y

Recent comparables

 

 

 

Rangers history:

Girardi, Staal tenures - finales for both.

- Eventual wear down - mostly within the last 2/3 years for both

History of Rangers players breaking down around 30 years old:

- Staal is 30, 689 (reg) + 104 (playoffs) games played, (523 total 2 years ago) 2 concussions

- Girardi 33, 788 +122 games played (637 total 2 seasons ago, age 31)

- Klein 32, 627 + 73

- McD: 467 + 96 (563 total games played)

- - Turned 28 on June 13

History of rangers players breaking down (guys that aged with the rangers, or came here around ~30): Drury (34), Gomez(29 trade), Richards (just turned 34 at buyout), Girardi, Staal, Redden (last game as a ranger at 32)

~33 years old, thats 5 more seasons… sure, but its 3 years into a 7 year deal. Potential 4 years of $7m left on the books. Isnt this the exact problem thats been repeating season after season, the achilles heal of the rangers cap space? All contracts bought out with 3-5 years remaining

 

 

Past cup champions:

Need for a center (Crosby/Malkin, Kopitar, Toews (sharp/Richards,Kane, Hossa), Bergeron/Krejci

Potential targets - Duchene, RNH, Tavares

Penguins 2016-17 Defense (Shultz was best defenseman)

 

Nashville departed D (Weber, Suter, Klein, Jones)

Huge shift away from the "defense wins championships"

 

Rangers future:

Skjei - no doubt

Shattenkirk, smith signed for 4 years

Staal still a very capable of #4minutes, at worst. Even holding onto Holden adds affordable depth and versatility, as he can play either side and in all situations, if necessary.

Bereglazov, trade for Deangelo, Pionk, Day, Pedrie, Graves

- Past bottom pair dmen: McIlrath, Kampfer, Bickel, Raphael Diaz, Conor Allen, Justin Faulk, Dan Boyle, Matt Hunwick, Mike Kostka, Chris Summers, Adam Clendening

 

Offensive turnover (Kreider/Zucc longest tenure) has proven successful

McDonagh was with Staal when the rest of the corps was Eminger, Moore, Del Zotto, Hamrlik and Bickel

Our defense has been solid in the past with only McDonagh... Now you have Skjei, Smith for stability and Shatty for offense.

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Think any number of non-Zib/Miller forwards become trade bait-Kreider, Vesey, Hayes, Zucc, Buch, Nash. SImply if they aren't producing, why not. There has to be some changes here, whether that's a trade, bringing up kids, or a HC change.

 

Igor is a least a season away and Lundqvist's contract makes him perhaps the most worthless trading piece in the NHL.

 

Trading McD is crazy.

 

Small sample and all that, but the late game collapses would indicate this is not a well-conditioned team. This franchise has always had a country club atmosphere spare when Tortarella was the HC. Even if it isn't that, players are way too comfortable right now.

 

Why Miller and Zib?

Strange duo to keep over the rest...

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I still can't believe the amount of people that are willing to defend the years of sell-your-soul trades for a shot at the Cup. Got in a half hour debate with one of my friends last night watching the game. This team's current shit situation, and lack of any real future, is a direct result of convincing ourselves we were one piece away for the past 5-6 years. The Nash trade was dumb, the MSL trade was dumber, the Yandle trade was dumber than that, and the Eric Staal trade was the worst we've made in decades.

 

All those years we could've been patient, and continued to stockpile picks and sell off old talent as it become too expensive. We could've been competitive for a decade, possibly for the foreseeable future, instead of 2-3 years. Instead, we have about $25 mil tied up in over-the-hill underperforming players, no game-breaking talents, a barren prospect cupboard, and exactly one real center in a league where centers have arguably become the most important position.

 

This team is in for Dark Ages 2.0. That's the price we pay for short-sightedness. Don't be surprised if you see 3-4 consecutive years without a playoff berth in the near future.

 

Other than the Staal trade, there have been no trades that you speak of in about a decade.

 

Saying our future outlook is bleak is completely incorrect as well. Our core is incredibly young, and theres guys like Buch, Chytil and Anderson. Defensively, we are even younger and very deep when it comes to prospects.

 

Also, the myth that tanking will ever make you good is overlooked. You've had 2 teams be successful, with possibly Edmonton soon. Those teams were bad for a number of years are lucked out with generational players... not just elite players, but guys that will go down as some of the best players in NHL history. Thats luck, nothing more, nothing less. You can't tank for a chance to get lucky.

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Other than the Staal trade, there have been no trades that you speak of in about a decade.

 

Saying our future outlook is bleak is completely incorrect as well. Our core is incredibly young, and theres guys like Buch, Chytil and Anderson. Defensively, we are even younger and very deep when it comes to prospects.

 

Also, the myth that tanking will ever make you good is overlooked. You've had 2 teams be successful, with possibly Edmonton soon. Those teams were bad for a number of years are lucked out with generational players... not just elite players, but guys that will go down as some of the best players in NHL history. Thats luck, nothing more, nothing less. You can't tank for a chance to get lucky.

 

I still can't believe the amount of people that are willing to defend the years of sell-your-soul trades for a shot at the Cup. Got in a half hour debate with one of my friends last night watching the game. This team's current shit situation, and lack of any real future, is a direct result of convincing ourselves we were one piece away for the past 5-6 years. The Nash trade was dumb, the MSL trade was dumber, the Yandle trade was dumber than that, and the Eric Staal trade was the worst we've made in decades.

 

All those years we could've been patient, and continued to stockpile picks and sell off old talent as it become too expensive. We could've been competitive for a decade, possibly for the foreseeable future, instead of 2-3 years. Instead, we have about $25 mil tied up in over-the-hill underperforming players, no game-breaking talents, a barren prospect cupboard, and exactly one real center in a league where centers have arguably become the most important position.

 

This team is in for Dark Ages 2.0. That's the price we pay for short-sightedness. Don't be surprised if you see 3-4 consecutive years without a playoff berth in the near future.

 

They got to a Finals off the MSL trade.

 

There is some young talent in the pipeline.

 

And as others have noted TML and EDM have sucked long term and until now had nothing really to show for it. Pile up all the picks you want, but doesn't guarantee success unless you luck into a generational talent.

 

Nash's contract comes off the books this summer and there is at least one young superstar center who is going to be a free agent.

 

Obviously the Staal trade was a disaster and the Staal, Girardi and Ludnqvist contracts hurt.

 

But you have to take a shot every year here. This team should have at least gotten into the ECF last year. Heck, not even granting you this year is a disaster, even if this start has been terrible. But grant you could come a point before the trade deadline if things don't get dramatically better this team could be sellers.

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I still can't believe the amount of people that are willing to defend the years of sell-your-soul trades for a shot at the Cup. Got in a half hour debate with one of my friends last night watching the game. This team's current shit situation, and lack of any real future, is a direct result of convincing ourselves we were one piece away for the past 5-6 years. The Nash trade was dumb, the MSL trade was dumber, the Yandle trade was dumber than that, and the Eric Staal trade was the worst we've made in decades.

 

All those years we could've been patient, and continued to stockpile picks and sell off old talent as it become too expensive. We could've been competitive for a decade, possibly for the foreseeable future, instead of 2-3 years. Instead, we have about $25 mil tied up in over-the-hill underperforming players, no game-breaking talents, a barren prospect cupboard, and exactly one real center in a league where centers have arguably become the most important position.

 

This team is in for Dark Ages 2.0. That's the price we pay for short-sightedness. Don't be surprised if you see 3-4 consecutive years without a playoff berth in the near future.

 

This team has been rock solid and a playoff team and serious contenders for the cup over the last 5 years. What are we complaining about? They've done better than most of the league. And like in most sports, the run and the consistency comes to an end. Without most of those trades, the Rangers probably are bubble playoff teams with Brandon Dubinsky and Ryan Callahan as the teams "elite" players.

 

So tired of hearing about how bad that Nash trade was. They gave up role players for him. Is Artem Anisimov going to put this team over the top? Has he put Columbus or Chicago over the top? Only AV can take one of the games better goal scorers and make him into a defense first forward that is lucky to crack the 25 goal mark....

 

This franchise is never going to be interested in a complete rebuild and sucking for years to attain first overall draft picks. Just not going to happen. Fuck I don't want it to happen. See what they drafted with the 7th overall pick? Imagine the vanilla boring player they would reach for with the first over all...

 

If this continues I deal anybody not named Skjei. Fuck Miller, fuck Zucc, fuck McD. Rip it all down. Gut this team and it's coaching staff and try something new, with a new cast.

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I fail to see how the St Louis trade was dumb, it got us 3 wins away from a championship, and a lucky break here or there, Rangers could've easily won that series in 5. The following season they were heavy favorites and a move for Yandle is the type of one piece move a team makes destined for another run. Rick Nash was acquired following a season where the team made the conference finals and also should've won if they could score. The go out and trade for him at the age of 28 while averaging 35 goals in his last 5 seasons with Columbus.

 

It sounds like a lot of bitching just for the sake of bitching

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