The Struggle Continues with Kaapo Kakko

[Br4d]

13 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I don't necessarily agree with any of that. Yes they weren't scoring goals at 5 v 5 but that's changing it up for changes sake.  They are winning. Hell, they won with Louis Domigue in goal.  There's no rush to change everything up just becuase one stat isn't perfect along the way. Are you worried Zibanejad isn't a 1c anymore?  It's a long season. 

 

I've actually been worried that Zibanejad wasn't a 1C since last season.

 

Great defense and great on the powerplay but lacking offensively at 5v5.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

I've actually been worried that Zibanejad wasn't a 1C since last season.

 

Great defense and great on the powerplay but lacking offensively at 5v5.

I know we like to overthink and pick apart stats here, and while 5v5 is important, PP goals still count and are required. 

 

40G/90PT 2 way right handed centers don't really exist in the NHL today. To say he's not a number one center is... Come on. 

[Br4d]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

I know we like to overthink and pick apart stats here, and while 5v5 is important, PP goals still count and are required. 

 

40G/90PT 2 way right handed centers don't really exist in the NHL today. To say he's not a number one center is... Come on. 

 

Zibanejad has hit 40 goals once in his career, 5 years ago.

[Long live the King]

5 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Zibanejad has hit 40 goals once in his career, 5 years ago.

 

Yea, he only had 39 last year.  What a bum.

[Keirik]

5 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Zibanejad has hit 40 goals once in his career, 5 years ago.

Just so you know, since that year you mentioned, there are only 13 players in the entire NHL with more points than him during that time. If you want to say just centers, the number dwindles to 6. 

 

If you want to say goals, then he's tied with Mackinnon for 5th most goals by a center during that time. 

 

Don't be so down on him. He's quietly a 1c but he still is one for sure. LGR. 

[jsm7302]

27 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Just so you know, since that year you mentioned, there are only 13 players in the entire NHL with more points than him during that time. If you want to say just centers, the number dwindles to 6. 

 

If you want to say goals, then he's tied with Mackinnon for 5th most goals by a center during that time. 

 

Don't be so down on him. He's quietly a 1c but he still is one for sure. LGR. 

1. Better than 78% of other first line centers for points.

 

2. Better than 84% of other first line centers for goals.

 

Essentially both stats place him in the top 20% of first line centers. No player is perfect but at the end of the day, we got him for Derek Brassard and he is the best center we have had in AGES. 

 

Let's complain about goalies next!!!

[Pete]

52 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Zibanejad has hit 40 goals once in his career, 5 years ago.

Zib as a Ranger averages 34G and 76 points per 82 with several seasons surpassing those totals. 

 

And he plays in every situation, PP/PK, up 1/down 1, tied under a minute, you name it.

 

That's absolutely 1C numbers and role. 

[Br4d]

16 minutes ago, Pete said:

Zib as a Ranger averages 34G and 76 points per 82 with several seasons surpassing those totals. 

 

And he plays in every situation, PP/PK, up 1/down 1, tied under a minute, you name it.

 

That's absolutely 1C numbers and role. 

 

As I said: he's not a 40G Center.

 

Lately he's not a particularly good scorer at 5v5.  Whatever else is true you cannot be a #1C if your line is not contributing goals at 5v5.  5 goals in 14 games. 

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

Who is going to trade a 25-26 year old Center with the chops to play on our 2nd/3rd line for Kaapo Kakko right now?  That's what the Rangers would need to get back for a 22 year old with talent who can't find his asshole for his elbow at the moment. 

 

 

Why is a 25 year old 2nd line center the bar to clear when the alternative in this scenario is moving Kakko to center? Kakko at C is a much lower bar to clear.

Edited November 17, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Pete]

23 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

As I said: he's not a 40G Center.

 

Lately he's not a particularly good scorer at 5v5.  Whatever else is true you cannot be a #1C if your line is not contributing goals at 5v5.  5 goals in 14 games. 

Completely disagree, but not going to keep repeating myself.

 

As I said, he's a 1C. 

[jsm7302]

27 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

As I said: he's not a 40G Center.

 

Lately he's not a particularly good scorer at 5v5.  Whatever else is true you cannot be a #1C if your line is not contributing goals at 5v5.  5 goals in 14 games. 

Edit: I should read better.

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by jsm7302

[BreakawayMachine]

Time to move on from Kakko at the deadline I think. He is defensively responsible and not much more. He is a black hole.

[Sharpshooter]

What a stark contrast between he and Hughes going one and two. lol Jesus. I like his defensive game too, but other than than, ugh. I feel he's regressed big time and has basicaly zero confidence. I'm at the point where I'll be surprised if he's still here by the deadline. 

[Ozzy]

He's a cog in the Rangers machine right now.  He plays a role on this team, and he's really not needed right now to do much scoring.  I actually like the chemistry with Kakko and Cuylle.  When Chytil comes back, he can get some more production, because Bonino is not a scorer, but they are shutting teams down like mad with Bonino centering the 3rd line!

 

I say just leave him be. 

[Pete]

There is absolutely no reason to move on from him. None. Zero. 

[Sharpshooter]

Coming into the season I wanted him to play with Chytil for a bit. I feel like the only time he's looked really good and been semi productive was when he was playing with him.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Coming into the season I wanted him to play with Chytil for a bit. I feel like the only time he's looked really good and been semi productive was when he was playing with him.

Chytil should be back with Panarin. Trocheck needs to center that third line, given it's role. 

[BreakawayMachine]

16 minutes ago, Pete said:

There is absolutely no reason to move on from him. None. Zero. 

If he can help us land another player who can chip in more offense I am all for moving on.

 

He hasnt made any jumps or shown any 2nd gear. What does he bring that we dont already have from Bonino, Vesey, Goodrow and Pitlick? He is redundant and holding up a pretty high spot on the roster. I understand having a winning record hides the flaws but if we had a losing record he would absolutely be one of the people in the spotlight as a non-contributor.

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, BreakawayMachine said:

If he can help us land another player who can chip in more offense I am all for moving on.

 

He hasnt made any jumps or shown any 2nd gear. What does he bring that we dont already have from Bonino, Vesey, Goodrow and Pitlick? He is redundant and holding up a pretty high spot on the roster. I understand having a winning record hides the flaws but if we had a losing record he would absolutely be one of the people in the spotlight as a non-contributor.

 

I get where you're coming from, my man....but his value to other teams won't be very high right now, and we're selling him at a low point.  We would probably have to even give up draft picks or another player as well to get anything remotely useful like a Blake Coleman.  ...not the best asset management in my opinion.

 

The kid has the potential; we've all seen it before.  We came into this season with high hopes he'd break out, and even before Laffy.  We're not even at the 1/4 pole yet, and I don't think cutting bait on him is the way to go at all.

 

We're thin at RW to begin with, and this kid is barely 22 years old.  I have a work boot older than him! We all didn't see shit in Laffy, and we were giving Laffy away for 4th liners before the season started.  Glad we held off on that one, right?  LOL

 

Same shit here...

 

Kakko has a fucking rocket of a wrist shot, and plays a pretty good NZ trap.  I don't know if you catch it on broadcasts, but his back pressure has been causing turn overs like crazy in the NZ.  He turned Sid over 3 times in the Penguins game, I counted.  He drove Marchand nuts in the Bruins game too.

 

I didn't think I heard Marchand's name all but 3 times all game.  Albeit that wasn't all Kakko, but it was that 3rd line...as a unit.  The point is, that I don't think you can just unplug a piece of this mix without it having ramifications with the other parts of the puzzle.

 

This team has a really good mix of vets, kids, and guys that play all different roles.  Kakko will find his place the same way Laffy did.  When he does, we're gonna be glad we kept him!  Right now he's an RFA with Arb rights, which could very well make a great value solution at RW for years to come.  He'll be a cheap resign, and god forbid he finds that scoring touch, we may have a 40 goal RW making somewhere in the neighborhood of $3.5 million for the next 3 seasons!!

 

Too much upside for this kid to go throwing him in the shitter. 

[BreakawayMachine]

All good points and well said. I do like the kid honestly. Hopefully something clicks and he can pot some goals.

[Pete]

38 minutes ago, BreakawayMachine said:

If he can help us land another player who can chip in more offense I am all for moving on.

 

He hasnt made any jumps or shown any 2nd gear. What does he bring that we dont already have from Bonino, Vesey, Goodrow and Pitlick? He is redundant and holding up a pretty high spot on the roster. I understand having a winning record hides the flaws but if we had a losing record he would absolutely be one of the people in the spotlight as a non-contributor.

He's a third line wing who's shown he can contribute on both sides of the puck and he doesn't break the bank.

 

What do you think you are getting for him via trade? And what do you think you will have to pay that player to score more from the third line with no power play time?

 

There is absolutely no reason to walk away from him. None. If Laf didn't move to the right side and turn it on, you walk away from him because he has no place on the third line and he's currently blocked. None of that is true for Kakko. So there's no reason at all to trade him.  

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

He's a third line wing who's shown he can contribute on both sides of the puck and he doesn't break the bank.

 

What do you think you are getting for him via trade? And what do you think you will have to pay that player to score more from the third line with no power play time?

 

There is absolutely no reason to walk away from him. None. If Laf didn't move to the right side and turn it on, you walk away from him because he has no place on the third line and he's currently blocked. None of that is true for Kakko. So there's no reason at all to trade him.  

 

One side of the puck.*

 

He's on pace for 13 points and 8 or 9 goals.

 

I agree there's no reason to walk away from him yet, but he only has one more year of that being true. When he needs another deal and he's still at Joel Ward levels of production, I pass. Especially if the guys we hope are knocking on the door at the time... are. I'd much rather see what they have in Brett Berard or Brennan Othmann than give Kakko $4 million to kill penalties.

[Long live the King]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

One side of the puck.*

 

He's on pace for 13 points and 8 or 9 goals.

 

I agree there's no reason to walk away from him yet, but he only has one more year of that being true. When he needs another deal and he's still at Joel Ward levels of production, I pass. Especially if the guys we hope are knocking on the door at the time... are. I'd much rather see what they have in Brett Berard or Brennan Othmann than give Kakko $4 million to kill penalties.

 

I don't think Kakko has anything to do with Berard or Othmann.  If Othmann makes the team I'd put him on the 3rd line with Cuylle and Trocheck.  Berard is the future Vesey replacement.  Neither has anything to do with Kakko.  Next year on Kakko is the top 6 RW placeholder until Perrault is ready.  Kakko isn't an issue on the roster, the issue is Chytil's health and if they need to find a young top 6 center to replace him. 

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

I don't think Kakko has anything to do with Berard or Othmann.  If Othmann makes the team I'd put him on the 3rd line with Cuylle and Trocheck.  Berard is the future Vesey replacement.  Neither has anything to do with Kakko.  Next year on Kakko is the top 6 RW placeholder until Perrault is ready.  Kakko isn't an issue on the roster, the issue is Chytil's health and if they need to find a young top 6 center to replace him. 

 

I do. Maybe Berard is a stretch, but the analytics behind him suggest he has a future as a third-liner because of his motor. Example:

 

 

I also can't believe you're trying to make an argument that a guy pacing 13 fucking points, who you have earmarked as a top-six winger, isn't a problem.

[Long live the King]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I do. Maybe Berard is a stretch, but the analytics behind him suggest he has a future as a third-liner because of his motor. Example:

 

 

I also can't believe you're trying to make an argument that a guy pacing 13 fucking points, who you have earmarked as a top-six winger, isn't a problem.

 

I have him ear marked as a place holder for another year or 2 until Perrault is ready.  I don't really care about his pace 20 games in.  I trust Kakko's all around game on the top line more than either Othmann or Berard as rookies.  That said, here is my question. 

 

How much Does Gus like playing for Lavi and in New York?  Can you sign Gus in the $5-6 million dollar range and would Arizona give you Connor Geekie for a package built around Miller and either Chytil/Kakko?