Rangers Extend Qualifying Offers to Miller, Lafreniere, Others

[BrooksBurner]

44 minutes ago, siddious said:

::unfollows this Chytil hating thread full of virgins who don’t give my man Fil the respect he deserves:: 

 

[Scott]

3 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

Yeah he's probably most like Kreider of all the current Rangers.

Other than he skates in wet cement and has reportedly not much if any work ethic to speak of, sure. 

 

 

[Albatrosss]

9 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

Other than he skates in wet cement and has reportedly not much if any work ethic to speak of, sure. 

 

 

this is like hating on your children because they're not straight A students.  

[The Dude]

8 hours ago, BreakawayMachine said:

So here is every goal by Laf during last season. Honestly besides 2 or 3 slick moves all of his goals are random tips or garbage cleanups. A goal is still a goal but it would be nice to see him look dangerous.

 

2022-23 Alexis Lafrenière Goals

Don't get pushed around by the Lafrenière posse around here. Most of those goals are crap. Bad goaltending,  horrible defensive blunders, some accidental nonsense and at one point, Sam says Lafrenière scored his 1st goal in 10 games. 

 

If you were trying to really say, the kid kinda sucks. Don't worry.  Many of us agree. 

 

I can't stand him and the sight of him often disgusts me. Worst 1st overall in a while and it's gotta be the 1 time the Rangers get to make the pick. He's a great disappointment and a few of us are absolutely done with him. 

[The Dude]

4 hours ago, Br4d said:

 

Yeah he's probably most like Kreider of all the current Rangers.

Kreider is an offseason workhorse.  Crazy amounts of training for that guy. Lafrenière is said to be taking the offseason lightly.  

 

Game wise? He's nothing like Kreider.  Kreider is strong on his drives to the net, has speed, is pretty good defensively and is immovable from infont of the net. 

 

Lafrenière is Lafrenière of the current Rangers.  Unimpressive all around. 

[Scott]

3 hours ago, CCCP said:

this is like hating on your children because they're not straight A students.  

it is but come on, it was way too easy.  Plus sometimes kids deserve it.

[Pete]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Re: the Evolving Wild link:

 

 

Also, I'm with you up to the moment you say Chytil just needs PP time to be Zibanejad, because that's gonna be a bridge too far for me. Chytil lacks the dynamic element that Zibanejad has, which is why Zib can dine out the way he does. His PP xGAR is blue as fuck. I don't think any volume of PP time given to Chytil is going to magically make him the threat Zibanejad is.

Chytils reply to the comment was "He's one of the best centers in the game, and I'm Filip Chytil".

 

I think everybody knows what the intent behind the comment was, and I think everybody understands that it's not as simple as just going out and doing what you do...except twice as well.

 

We don't need to waste time on statistical comparisons when they're not crafted honestly. 

[Br4d]

Chytil could also have taken away the notion that GG thought he was good enough to play like Zibanejad.  All great players think they have the possibility of greatness before it actually shows up.

 

I don't agree with everything GG did but he was very good at motivating most of the Rangers right up until the Devils series.

 

Chris Kreider had his best two years by far under GG.  Zibanejad also had 2 great years as did Panarin.  Chytil took his first steps towards being a good player in 2022 and he followed up this season.  K'Andre Miller also.

 

I think we're going to miss some of the motivating that GG did before all is said and done.  Hopefully Laviolette will improve the post-season performance.

[Pete]

GG didn't motivate anybody, he wasn't even talking to them. 

[BrooksBurner]

13 minutes ago, Pete said:

GG didn't motivate anybody, he wasn't even talking to them. 

Uh-huh. And nobody said anything to that effect for two full seasons until they looked like trash on ice in a playoff round. I don’t recall hearing of these complaints rolling in about the coach the previous year, but I’m sure it’s just coincidental.

[Br4d]

7 hours ago, Pete said:

GG didn't motivate anybody, he wasn't even talking to them. 

 

This is just hate.

 

We all saw him spending time on the bench during games talking to the players as they came off the ice and while they were awaiting their next shift.

 

Not to mention *you* just said that he told Chytil to play like Zibanejad.

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

This is just hate.

 

We all saw him spending time on the bench during games talking to the players as they came off the ice and while they were awaiting their next shift.

 

Not to mention *you* just said that he told Chytil to play like Zibanejad.

He told the press Chytil should play like Zib. 

 

And yes, it is hate. I hate how 2 years were wasted.

 

But here's the difference between me... And maybe some others here who like to craft narratives... I noticed in GGs first season that the on ice product meaning the shift to shift play) and line combinations were no different than Quinn. But they were winning. About halfway through the season, I started to look at the stats and saw that they were putrid at five on five, living off the power play, and Igor was having a season for the record books. And they lost in the playoffs for exactly those reasons (couldn't score, stopped getting PPs). They were living off life lines the entire playoffs before the TB series. We all know Crosby was manhandling them in R1. And we know how it played out.

 

So I saw something, looked at the stats which confirmed, and formed an opinion.

 

Others here form opinions and then search for specific stats to support that narrative, and then do a fine job of cherry picking.

 

Chytil being "just as good as Zib" , but just not getting PP time, is just nonsense. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Pete

[Br4d]

Zib wasn't all that good against playoff bound teams last season.  That's just undeniable.

[LindG1000]

6 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Zib wasn't all that good against playoff bound teams last season.  That's just undeniable.

 

It's not only deniable, it's demonstrably incorrect when you look at his splits.

 

 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Zib wasn't all that good against playoff bound teams last season.  That's just undeniable.

Yes, those numbers are what they are. But you still have no context for the numbers. If you see Zib didn't do well against team x in four games, what was going on in those four games? Was the other team on a hot streak? Was Zib on a cold streak? Was The team in playoff position when we played them or are you going on record of teams that simply made the playoffs? Was it specifically him that struggled against playoff teams, or was it the entire team? Was he an outlier, or was the team being out coached? If the entire team didn't have a great record against playoff teams, I would just chalk that up to coaching. 

 

There's a lot of gray area at a lot of questions that you're either not asking or not answering because again, you're trying to create a narrative so you're selectively pulling numbers that support your narrative instead of looking at everything holistically and seeing what the evidence tells you.

 

You're trying to create a narrative that he's not good against playoff teams but he was one of the best playoff performers last season. So that kind of flies in the face of the line you're trying to create. It's simply not true.

 

You also, despite all the evidence presented, refuse to acknowledge the impact of coaching on a team. 

[Br4d]

12 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

It's not only deniable, it's demonstrably incorrect when you look at his splits.

 

 

 

He had 4 EV goals against playoff bound teams in 39 games.  That's borderline terrible.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

He had 4 EV goals against playoff bound teams in 39 games.  That's borderline terrible.

Yes, and why did he only have four even strength goals? Because the entire team is bad at even strength! Because they didn't have a plan!

 

Unless you're somehow suggesting that we've assembled 20 of the worst even strength hockey players in the national hockey League? 

 

I'm not sure how many times we have to keep repeating this. 

 

If you can find me a player on this team who excelled at even strength against playoff teams, then you can make an argument that Zib himself is a poor five on five player against top teams.

 

Right now you're looking at this in a silo. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

He told the press Chytil should play like Zib. 

 

And yes, it is hate. I hate how 2 years were wasted.

 

But here's the difference between me... And maybe some others here who like to craft narratives... I noticed in GGs first season that the on ice product meaning the shift to shift play) and line combinations were no different than Quinn. But they were winning. About halfway through the season, I started to look at the stats and saw that they were putrid at five on five, living off the power play, and Igor was having a season for the record books. And they lost in the playoffs for exactly those reasons (couldn't score, stopped getting PPs). They were living off life lines the entire playoffs before the TB series. We all know Crosby was manhandling them in R1. And we know how it played out.

 

So I saw something, looked at the stats which confirmed, and formed an opinion.

 

Others here form opinions and then search for specific stats to support that narrative, and then do a fine job of cherry picking.

 

Chytil being "just as good as Zib" , but just not getting PP time, is just nonsense. 

You’re right about the poor underlying stats, but you’re wrong about the cause of them. You never disputed VGK’s excellent underlying stats under Gallant. They didn’t have that problem. So where you’re claiming that the coach didn’t have have a plan or system or this and that, and he’s the reason for poor underlying stats, there’s a clear example he has coached a team with terrific underlying numbers. Among the league best.

 

The problem is if you say VGK had the players in spite of Gallant, that doesn’t look so good that a cast of misfits who never played together, know how to play hockey better than whatever we have here. If you don’t say that, then you have to admit Gallant is probably a pretty good coach. It’s one or the other. In either case, it blows up the scapegoat narrative, so it’s unsurprising you’ve ran away from countering this point since it’s what you’re hanging your hat on.

 

Meanwhile, the same underlying stats (xGF, corsi, whatever) you used to construct the Gallant narrative, you are ignoring so you don’t have to admit that Zib might not be as good as you think there, and Chytil might be better than you think there. It was close this past year and that’s just what the data indicates. It doesn’t mean it will be close this upcoming year. We’ll see.

[Br4d]

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

 

You also, despite all the evidence presented, refuse to acknowledge the impact of coaching on a team. 

 

Rod Brind'Amour wins the cup fairly often because he's a great coach and that is a key in winning the Stanley Cup.

 

The reality is that collections of great players are the only way to win the Stanley Cup more than once.  That's what NHL history tells us.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Rod Brind'Amour wins the cup fairly often because he's a great coach and that is a key in winning the Stanley Cup.

 

 

This is nonsensical grasping at straws.

 

Quote

The reality is that collections of great players are the only way to win the Stanley Cup more than once.  That's what NHL history tells us.

 

NHL history also tells us that collections of great players don't win the Stanley Cup without a great coach. 

 

The year Galant took Vegas to the finals, you could argue that they had a better roster than the Capitals. But I think we all know at this point that Trotz is a much better coach. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

You’re right about the poor underlying stats, but you’re wrong about the cause of them. You never disputed VGK’s excellent underlying stats under Gallant. They didn’t have that problem. So where you’re claiming that the coach didn’t have have a plan or system or this and that, and he’s the reason for poor underlying stats, there’s a clear example he has coached a team with terrific underlying numbers. Among the league best.

 

The problem is if you say VGK had the players in spite of Gallant, that doesn’t look so good that a cast of misfits who never played together, know how to play hockey better than whatever we have here. If you don’t say that, then you have to admit Gallant is probably a pretty good coach. It’s one or the other. In either case, it blows up the scapegoat narrative, so it’s unsurprising you’ve ran away from countering this point since it’s what you’re hanging your hat on.

 

Meanwhile, the same underlying stats (xGF, corsi, whatever) you used to construct the Gallant narrative, you are ignoring so you don’t have to admit that Zib might not be as good as you think there, and Chytil might be better than you think there. It was close this past year and that’s just what the data indicates. It doesn’t mean it will be close this upcoming year. We’ll see.

VGK had great underlying stats for a little more than a year under GG. 

 

They don't have all the underlying stats for Gigi's entire coaching career, but for the years that they do his teams have largely been bad or middle of the pack in five on five.

 

Vegas' first few years were a fluke plain and simple. The Vegas shooting combined with the island of misfit Toys narrative really fueled them.

 

But yeah, the rest of GG career is nothing special. It's probably why he gets fired at the same point every team. When you get a really close look at what's there, you realize it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. 

 

On the other hand if we interviewed 100 NHL executives and asked them to compare Zib and Chytil, none of them would agree with you. 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

The year Galant took Vegas to the finals, you could argue that they had a better roster than the Capitals. But I think we all know at this point that Trotz is a much better coach.

lol what? No you can't.

 

There's not a single person in the universe that would've taken that Vegas roster over that Capitals roster at the start of the season. Some might have changed their opinion later on in the season, but then you have to give Gallant credit for having them play better than the sum of their part. It was a team full of outcasts. Everyone considered that Capitals teams as one of the favorites to go all the way.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

lol what? No you can't.

 

There's not a single person in the universe that would've taken that Vegas roster over that Capitals roster at the start of the season. Some might have changed their opinion later on in the season, but then you have to give Gallant credit for having them play better than the sum of their part. It was a team full of outcasts. Everyone considered that Capitals teams as one of the favorites to go all the way.

None of this changes that by the time both teams reached the finals, you can argue Vegas had a better roster. 

 

Washington basically fell off a cliff after that Cup.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Pete

[LindG1000]

6 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

lol what? No you can't.

 

There's not a single person in the universe that would've taken that Vegas roster over that Capitals roster at the start of the season. Some might have changed their opinion later on in the season, but then you have to give Gallant credit for having them play better than the sum of their part. It was a team full of outcasts. Everyone considered that Capitals team as one of the favorites to go all the way.

 

Given how Vegas has kept doing that, and yet, Gallant has been twice fired....I wonder if you do.

 

Vegas has had three coaches. They have never changed the two assistant coaches from the start of their 2017 season - Ryan McGill and Ryan Craig.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

4 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

Given how Vegas has kept doing that, and yet, Gallant has been twice fired....I wonder if you do.

 

Vegas has had three coaches. They have never changed the two assistant coaches from the start of their 2017 season - Ryan McGill and Ryan Craig.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing here?

 

I just said that there's no way the 2018 Vegas roster was better than the Capitals roster.