Staple Rangers, Chytil Have Begun Preliminary Talks on Contract Extension

[jsm7302]

Just now, BrooksBurner said:

 

I get all of that, but that's how offensive players are. Everyone wants Chytil to produce top 6 offense with bottom 6 center grit. How many of those types exist? We don't even get that from Zibanejad or Panarin, and both of those players slump plenty enough.

 

The original debate over the last year plus that the Rangers need bottom 6 center grit more than top 6 center offense is fair. To keep expecting Chytil to be both for $3.5-4M isn't.

I think most would be happy with top 6 production solely. The issue is consistency and inability to bring it up to that level. His numbers are consistent with a 3rd line center and normally third liners do have that intangible quality. He does not. HOWEVER Trochek does so this roster construction COULD utilize Chytil as he exists today. It is just a matter of coaching and line matching.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I get all of that, but that's how offensive players are. Everyone wants Chytil to produce top 6 offense with bottom 6 center grit. How many of those types exist? We don't even get that from Zibanejad or Panarin, and both of those players slump plenty enough.

 

The original debate over the last year plus that the Rangers need bottom 6 center grit more than top 6 center offense is fair. To keep expecting Chytil to be both for $3.5-4M isn't.

 

Not all of them. Not even on the Rangers. Look at Trocheck. Kreider should be similar but usually isn't. But when he does decide to remember he's a horse, he trucks dudes. Tarasenko sent some Penguin into the shadow realm last game.

 

Panarin, Zibanejad... these guys, for sure. Same as Chytil. Either scoring or existing. But again, this is all the more reason to not sink too much of your cap into multiple players like this at once.

[Cash or Czech]

Honestly this spells out a likely trade candidate to get another asset, or maybe move an expensive contract out.

[Pete]

52 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Yeah, I should have included that. That's what I meant. Think Jeannot. I know, I know, broken record, but when that guy isn't scoring, he's doing something. There's something else he's bringing to games. He'll throw big hits. He'll fight. He'll PK. He'll do lots of sneaky dirty shit that irritates the hell out of opposing players. Chytil is either scoring in bunches or just existing.

Not even that, but 15 games with no goals and 3 assists? Not even making anyone around him better just because he's not scoring?

 

Not everyone needs to be physical but it just outlines that when pucks aren't going in there's nothing else he adds.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Pete

[Pete]

43 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Everyone wants Chytil to produce top 6 offense with bottom 6 center grit.

I don't. I want him to be an offensive contributor when not scoring goals. He's not that. When he's not scoring goals he's an empty sweater.

[BrooksBurner]

42 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Not all of them. Not even on the Rangers. Look at Trocheck. Kreider should be similar but usually isn't. But when he does decide to remember he's a horse, he trucks dudes. Tarasenko sent some Penguin into the shadow realm last game.

 

Panarin, Zibanejad... these guys, for sure. Same as Chytil. Either scoring or existing. But again, this is all the more reason to not sink too much of your cap into multiple players like this at once.

 

I love that Tarasenko has that in him. I'm not sure if the dollars will work out to sign him, but I sure hope so.

 

I understand the gripes with Chytil. It's just much harder to be a consistent goal scorer at only even strength like everyone wants him to be. Zibanejad, for example, hasn't had an even strength goal in the last 12 games. That's not an infrequent occurrence for him either. He's had 3 stretches this year of 10 games or more with zero ES goals. It's just swept under the run because he's afforded the privilege (earned) to bank gobs of PP goals during the same stretches lol. Chytil doesn't have that kind of opportunity to hide behind.

Edited March 13, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[jsm7302]

Problem is.....no one in Hartford exists to fill his role....so here we are overpaying on the open market again. Not good.

[jsm7302]

Just now, BrooksBurner said:

 

I love that Tarasenko has that in him. I'm not sure if the dollars will work out to sign him, but I sure hope so.

 

I understand the gripes with Chytil. It's just much harder to be a consistent goal scorer at only even strength like everyone wants him to be. Zibanejad, for example, hasn't had an even strength goal in the last 12 games. That's not an infrequent occurrence for him either. He's had 3 stretches this year of 10 games or more with zero ES goals. It's just swept under the run because when he's afforded the privilege (earned) to bank 4+ PP goals during the same stretches lol. Chytil doesn't have that kind of opportunity to hide behind.

Comparing apples to oranges. Zib is on the PP, PK and though may not be potting his own, he certainly contributes in creating offense for others. Chytil does not.

[RJWantsTheCup]

Chytil is playing the power play, he's just invisible on it.

[BrooksBurner]

Just now, jsm7302 said:

Comparing apples to oranges. Zib is on the PP, PK and though may not be potting his own, he certainly contributes in creating offense for others. Chytil does not.

 

Zib has 0 goals and 3 assists at ES in his last 12 games.

 

It's not really apples to oranges at all. It's just acknowledging the obvious. Zib is a tremendous special teams player and he only got that way by refining his craft playing special teams while the team wasn't so good. Chytil is expected to perform better than Zib at even strength because why?

[jsm7302]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

Zib has 0 goals and 3 assists at ES in his last 12 games.

 

It's not really apples to oranges at all. It's just acknowledging the obvious. Zib is a tremendous special teams player and he only got that way by refining his craft playing special teams while the team wasn't so good. Chytil is expected to perform better than Zib at even strength because why?

Better matchups

[BrooksBurner]

2 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Chytil is playing the power play, he's just invisible on it.

 

He's gotten a crack on the PP over the last two weeks, but not in a position to succeed. He's completely out of position. I can't remember one instance where a good shooting opportunity existed for him, primarily because it made no sense for a lefty to play in the bumper spot with the PP running through Panarin on the right boards. That's not a shooting position. The failure here is on the coach.

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Better matchups

 

So your stance is a team's 3C on the depth chart should outperform the 1C because better matchups?

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

So your stance is a team's 3C on the depth chart should outperform the 1C because better matchups?

Earlier in the thread you called him a high end 2C, so yes he should be able to excel against the other team's 3rd and 4th lines.

[Scott]

Plus there's all that chemistry and up and coming skill on the kids line!  Apparently based on some recollections they were unstoppable during the entire playoffs.  All that potential,except potential still means having never done it.

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

Earlier in the thread you called him a high end 2C, so yes he should be able to excel against the other team's 3rd and 4th lines.

 

That's not what I said. I was talking about his yearly production to date, being high end 2C quality, and that there's a seed of doubt at the moment if he is in a rut where he returns to that level of play when he's out of it, or if he reverts back to mid 6 C type production. There's no doubt that in the first 48 games, pacing 30 goals and 60 points at even strength, is high end 2C production.

[Jdog99]

this team collectively has been sh*t the last few weeks - and i would not attirbute that to just individual parts not playing well.

 

Hard to come up with a good evaluation of players in that environment. I would still bet on chytil if the numbers and all other moving pieces this offseason fit.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

That's not what I said. I was talking about his yearly production to date, being high end 2C quality, and that there's a seed of doubt at the moment if he is in a rut where he returns to that level of play when he's out of it, or if he reverts back to mid 6 C type production. There's no doubt that in the first 48 games, pacing 30 goals and 60 points at even strength, is high end 2C production.

But he's not consistent. And he never is. Pointing to one recent slump from Zib as a point of deflection doesn't change that.

[jsm7302]

43 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

So your stance is a team's 3C on the depth chart should outperform the 1C because better matchups?

My stance is, if we are discussing his viability as a  center  in the top two lines then yes he should be performing quite well against 3rd/4th line matchups. If he is not able to perform under those circumstances then he is certainly a third line center without a mean/aggressive bone in his body and this team could cut ties to find a cheaper alternative if he prices himself out. His only saving grace is that #2 on the depth chart plays bigger than he is with toughness. 

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

But he's not consistent. And he never is. Pointing to one recent slump from Zib as a point of deflection doesn't change that.

 

It was actually 3 ES slumps of 10+ games by Zib. All this year.

 

10/11 -> 11/01, 14 games, 0 goals, 5 assists (start of year, he had no ES goals until the 15th game of the season)

12/3 -> 12/27, 11 games, 0 goals, 6 assists

2/17 -> 3/12, 12 games, 0 goals, 3 assists

 

Not even trying to shit on Zibanejad. Just pointing out the error of putting Chytil on blast for having a stretch of doing the same thing and on less TOI.

 

Here's Chytil's similarly prolonged ES slumps this year , btw:

 

11/13 -> 12/02, 9 games, 0 goals, 4 assists

2/10 -> 3/12, 15 games, 0 goals, 4 assists

 

He's on a cold streak at ES like Zib was to start the year. It is what it is. Chytil gets less ice time and doesn't get a real opportunity to contribute on special teams in the midst of it, so we get to sit here and have discussions like this.

[BrooksBurner]

20 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

My stance is, if we are discussing his viability as a  center  in the top two lines then yes he should be performing quite well against 3rd/4th line matchups. If he is not able to perform under those circumstances then he is certainly a third line center without a mean/aggressive bone in his body and this team could cut ties to find a cheaper alternative if he prices himself out. His only saving grace is that #2 on the depth chart plays bigger than he is with toughness. 

 

 

 

Ok. Even with the slump, he's got 14 goals and 27 points at 5v5 with 725 TOI. Zibanejad has 10 goals and 27 points at 5v5 with 885 TOI. What does that make him?

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

It was actually 3 ES slumps of 10+ games by Zib. All this year.

 

10/11 -> 11/01, 14 games, 0 goals, 5 assists (start of year, he had no ES goals until the 15th game of the season)

12/3 -> 12/27, 11 games, 0 goals, 6 assists

2/17 -> 3/12, 12 games, 0 goals, 3 assists

 

Not even trying to shit on Zibanejad. Just pointing out the error of putting Chytil on blast for having a stretch of doing the same thing and on less TOI.

 

Here's Chytil's similarly prolonged ES slumps this year , btw:

 

11/13 -> 12/02, 9 games, 0 goals, 4 assists

2/10 -> 3/12, 15 games, 0 goals, 4 assists

 

He's on a cold streak at ES like Zib was to start the year. It is what it is. Chytil gets less ice time and doesn't get a real opportunity to contribute on special teams in the midst of it, so we get to sit here and have discussions like this.

Let's keep justifying Chytil's slumps by pointing at other players!

 

This is just more of a reason to move on from Chytil. We already have other players who slump enough. Just reinforces my point.

 

They need something like 20 goal guy, preferably one who generally scores every 4 games and not one who does something like score in 10 games straight, twice, and then the rest of the time does absolutely nothing against the other team's weaker players.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Let's keep justifying Chytil's slumps by pointing at other players!

 

This is just more of a reason to move on from Chytil. We already have other players who slump enough. Just reinforces my point.

 

They need something like 20 goal guy, preferably one who generally scores every 4 games and not one who does something like score in 10 games straight, twice, and then the rest of the time does absolutely nothing against the other team's weaker players.

That’s a reach. I didn’t justify anything. I’m treating Zibanejad’s and Chytil’s slumps similarly. I’m not overreacting to either, and what I’d like to see is if one is slumping the other one is grooving. That’s how you stay afloat and have success. It’s not always the same guy. It seems you are the one trying to justify treating the streaks differently.

You might be right that they should trade him, just for the wrong reasons. What I’ve pointed out reinforces that Chytil is a top 6 player on offense and should be top 6 with a quality PP role and time. He’s semi-blocked at his position from reaching his full potential. That is why it might make sense to trade him. Not because he goes through streaks like others.

 

In one thread you want Chytil slotted between Panarin and Kane, which acknowledges Chytil is a good offensive player. In this thread, he’s not worth $4M and Dru should walk away. Mixed messaging.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

I love that Tarasenko has that in him. I'm not sure if the dollars will work out to sign him, but I sure hope so.

 

I understand the gripes with Chytil. It's just much harder to be a consistent goal scorer at only even strength like everyone wants him to be. Zibanejad, for example, hasn't had an even strength goal in the last 12 games. That's not an infrequent occurrence for him either. He's had 3 stretches this year of 10 games or more with zero ES goals. It's just swept under the run because he's afforded the privilege (earned) to bank gobs of PP goals during the same stretches lol. Chytil doesn't have that kind of opportunity to hide behind.

 

I don't want him to be a "consistent goal scorer" I want him to be a "consistent performer." He has two points (assists) in his last ten games. He hasnt' scored a goal in more than a month. He has five points (all assists) in his last 15 games.

 

Again, I think Pete is right. When he's not "on" he barely exists.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, jsm7302 said:

Problem is.....no one in Hartford exists to fill his role....so here we are overpaying on the open market again. Not good.

 

Just sign Barbashev for like $3 million per?