Flyers Acquire Tony DeAngelo From Hurricanes; Signs 2-Year/$10m Contract ($5m AAV)

[Pete]

Torts heavily values players who have character and don't do silly things to hurt the team like take bad penalties and make bad turnovers.

 

The only way this works is if ADA stops doing dumb stuff because you know the outcome if he does. 

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

It’s possible, but the Torts of today eats the lunch of guys like Laine that just purely don’t give a crap. I actually think Torts might be the kind of guy that gets the best out of ADA in his own zone. 
 

we shall see I suppose. 

 

Tony's skill will get him his points. He'll dine out on the PP, as he should. At ES, especially in close games, or defending a lead? I dunno.

[Bugg]

31 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Tony's skill will get him his points. He'll dine out on the PP, as he should. At ES, especially in close games, or defending a lead? I dunno.

Saw a podcast a few months back with Hartnall discussing his time with CBJ and Tortorella. Basic idea; they got along very well. But Tortorella was/is totally obsessed with the defensive aspect of the game and his players, and even when Hartnall was producing his ice time was cut any time Tortorella thought he wasn't defensively responsible. Heard Sonny Milano(who also personally liked Tortorella away from the ice) say roughly the same thing; if you aren't totally devoted to defense, Tortorella has no use for you. ADA is a tough fit with that approach. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Bugg

[Keirik]

3 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Saw a podcast a few months back with Hartnall discussing his time with CBJ and Tortorella. Basic idea; they got along very well. But Tortorella was/is totally obsessed with the defensive aspect of the game and his players, and even when Hartnall was producing his ice time was cut any time Tortorella thought he wasn't defensively responsible. Heard Sonny Milano(who also personally liked Tortorella away from the ice) say roughly the same thing; if you aren't totally devoted to defense, Tortorella has no use for you. ADA is a tough fit with that approach. 

I find it incredibly difficult to believe the Flyers hired Torts first then didn’t even discuss ADA with him before pulling the trigger on this. 

[Bugg]

15 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I find it incredibly difficult to believe the Flyers hired Torts first then didn’t even discuss ADA with him before pulling the trigger on this. 

Of course. Objectively though ADA is an offensive defenseman who is not very good in his own zone, and Tortorella demands everyone play defense. Granted their roster isn't very good, so the options are few. If he were to cut ADA's ice time, who is he gonna play? May be the GM's perspective is ADA can take a ton of ice time for now while the roster gets better, and he could be trade bait this year or next at the deadline. 

[Albatrosss]

Or maybe Torts will mold him to be more defensively responsible 

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

1. This move is made by the GM. The coach is irrelevant to the conversation. I seriously doubt the GM is phoning his first year coach to ask "are you OK with this move?"

 

2. The rest, I agree in principle, but Torts heavily values players who defend, and Tony does not do this. I don't know that they'll clash personally much, but repeated blown coverage that costs the Flyers games could cause a rift if Tony gets benched over any of them.

Torts also put guys like Dan Boyle to use. I think he's a very comparable player to DeAngelo. 

 

If DeAngelo occasionally steps up and takes the body, blocks some shots, and shows emotion (things he already does), while producing points I think the relationship will go fine. 

 

 

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Of course. Objectively though ADA is an offensive defenseman who is not very good in his own zone, and Tortorella demands everyone play defense. Granted their roster isn't very good, so the options are few. If he were to cut ADA's ice time, who is he gonna play? May be the GM's perspective is ADA can take a ton of ice time for now while the roster gets better, and he could be trade bait this year or next at the deadline. 

Zero chance they signed him to think he's trade bait. ADA still carries baggage. There still are teams that won't touch him. Torts did manage guys like Boyle, Del Zotto, and even most recently Werenski who are all very offensive minded D. He'll he's notnD but Torts managed Panarin who males ADA look like a shut down d in comparison

 

[Sod16]

ADA is a top flight offensive defenseman who is being paid accordingly at $5m.  If he could do that and play shut down D, he'd be making $9m and contending for the Norris.  There's a place for Tony on a good team: 3rd pair and PP and bump him up if you're behind.

[Scott]

Where's the good team in this situation? 

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, jsrangers said:

Where's the good team in this situation? 

What exactly are you trying to get at all in this thread? He had 51 points in 64 games last year QBing a pp all year. I’m not trying to pick on you specifically but a couple po5 shots and making it seem like he will be walking home soon seems like a bit of a head scratcher. 
how many near point per game D at 26 years old do you think are out there at his price point? 

[Scott]

It's not all that complicated and I'm sorry you  take anything negative (I posted stats showing his offensive and defensive chart) personally about the guy. I said in jest  at least it will be a short walk home because my belief is he and Torts won't see eye to eye for long.  Both I'm sure will be on their best behavior to start ( overall, not having anything to do with each other). The team should be a bottom feeder or close to it so the pressure will build.  I think Torts will eventually settle back into the grinding guy who values defense first as others have quoted here from past players. I think eventually the odds of it becoming toxic are fairly high. 

 

Sod16 said there's a place for Tony on a good team 3rd pair, pp etc. I asked where the good team is in this situation? Again in jest but hey if you think the flyers are a good team have at it. 

 

Gotta hand it to him though after watching 2 playoff games most nights he was the only guy who made an ass out of himself by chirping the opposing coach after the horn. He basically took himself out of the whole series all by himself. He had the perfect opportunity to give us a huge FU with his play, but he could only say the words. 

 

[Bugg]

8 hours ago, Keirik said:

Zero chance they signed him to think he's trade bait. ADA still carries baggage. There still are teams that won't touch him. Torts did manage guys like Boyle, Del Zotto, and even most recently Werenski who are all very offensive minded D. He'll he's notnD but Torts managed Panarin who males ADA look like a shut down d in comparison

 

Think of it like this; Flyers do not figure to be much more than a longshot for the playoffs this year and next. They need a D who can run the PP and take big minutes. There really isn't much talent on the roster. Doubt anyone would buy ADA for an extra year @ $5 million next spring. But deadline 2024, entierly plausible a team loading up for a playoff run takes him on with minimal cap hit and no long term obligation. 

 

 Lack of talent across the Flyers' roster plus Carter Hart means Tortorella's Flyers are gonna take the body, be in good defensive positions and block shots. Think the clash of personalities thing is overblown; even players who have had their differences with Tortorella genuinely like and respect him. Problem is defense has not ever been ADA's game. Monet is a painter, but you wouldn't hire him to paint your garage. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Bugg

[The Dude]

8 hours ago, Sod16 said:

ADA is a top flight offensive defenseman who is being paid accordingly at $5m.  If he could do that and play shut down D, he'd be making $9m and contending for the Norris.  There's a place for Tony on a good team: 3rd pair and PP and bump him up if you're behind.

Meh. He was on the top pair in Carolina.  Let's not make it out like how people had him penciled in as a Ranger.

 

When given the opportunity, the unlikable big mouth walked the walk on one of the best teams in the league last season. He's not some 3rd pair PP specialist. He did very well with the opportunity and the right situation. 

 

But he's obviously not likeable. Heck. Now that he's a Flyer, I honestly lose interest in anything about him. Fuck him. He STINKS. LOL. 

[Pete]

Any team that can't pair him with a Jaccob Slavin-like object is going to struggle. 

 

I see it going down like... Tons of turnovers leads to benchings leads to mouthing off leads to his ticket punched out of town.

 

That is unless he learned from Rod the Bod to keep his mouth shut. It's entirely possible however highly unlikely. 

[Phil]

22 hours ago, Bugg said:

Saw a podcast a few months back with Hartnall discussing his time with CBJ and Tortorella. Basic idea; they got along very well. But Tortorella was/is totally obsessed with the defensive aspect of the game and his players, and even when Hartnall was producing his ice time was cut any time Tortorella thought he wasn't defensively responsible. Heard Sonny Milano(who also personally liked Tortorella away from the ice) say roughly the same thing; if you aren't totally devoted to defense, Tortorella has no use for you. ADA is a tough fit with that approach. 

Exactly this. It’s why Del Zotto, Gaborik, and others also butted heads with him. Defend first. Everything second.

[Keirik]

5 hours ago, Phil said:

Exactly this. It’s why Del Zotto, Gaborik, and others also butted heads with him. Defend first. Everything second.

Not sure that’s exactly accurate.  that’s also ignoring that Gaby had his best offensive seasons under Torts. Think it was over 100 goals in 3 seasons before falling out of favor in year 4. Torts isn’t just about defend 1st at all costs. He’s about production. If you’re producing offensively you get to slide a bit, but if you fail to produce offensively, then he isn’t going to give you quarter for not defending. It’s always been that way. 

[Phil]

8 hours ago, Keirik said:

Not sure that’s exactly accurate.  that’s also ignoring that Gaby had his best offensive seasons under Torts. Think it was over 100 goals in 3 seasons before falling out of favor in year 4. Torts isn’t just about defend 1st at all costs. He’s about production. If you’re producing offensively you get to slide a bit, but if you fail to produce offensively, then he isn’t going to give you quarter for not defending. It’s always been that way. 

You're conflating rifts with like relentless bullying. Average players don't really struggle to play for him, but defensively suspect ones do. Whether they're successful in spite of it often comes down to individual talent. That's why Gaby stayed in the league and why MDZ became a near instantaneous journeyman.

 

In DeAngelo's case, it's compounded, because he barks back and it's gotten him in trouble literally everywhere he's been except Carolina. So it's justified to question if this will work naturally or if it's going to take a lot more "best behavior" work from DeAngelo.

[Pete]

I'm just looking forward to him getting turnstyled on his way to a 30ish point season.

 

Philly just doesn't have the team D to support him, or the forwards to compliment his dynamic offense. He really left a perfect situation for him in Carolina, over what seems to be ~$1.5/year.

 

Quote

DeAngelo is probably best served as a sheltered No. 4/5 defenseman on an NHL depth chart who can thrive on the power play. That’s more or less how Carolina viewed him during contract negotiations, pegging him more as a mid-$3 million cap hit player. Instead, the Flyers are likely to give him around $5 million per year, which either makes him an overpaid third-pair defenseman, or an Ellis replacement on the top pair (assuming they keep Sanheim and Ristolainen together) with serious defensive issues. Yes, DeAngelo did spend a significant amount of time next to Jaccob Slavin on the Hurricanes’ top pair in 2021-22, and that pair thrived, even if head coach Rod Brind’Amour did his best to still shelter DeAngelo when possible. But Provorov isn’t Slavin, particularly defensively. Giving DeAngelo top pair minutes seems like a serious risk, especially with Ristolainen right behind him on the depth chart. It’s just not an ideally structured blue line group.

 

And that’s not even getting into the character risks, which remain significant. In Carolina, DeAngelo was on a cheap “prove it” deal with every incentive to avoid rocking the boat; it very well could have been his last chance in the NHL. Now, he’s again a highly paid player with contract security.

Like I said, Carolina puts a specific value on players, and walk away from anyone who wants what they think is too much.

[BrooksBurner]

Teams coached by Torts generally know how to tighten up defensively and protect the net in exchange for less offense, to keep games close whether the team is overmatched or not. I remember his stint here thinking we just needed a good PP to put us over the top. Never got it. DeAngelo is one of the best in the business running a PP.

 

Tortorella hockey + a good PP can be a winning combination.

[Pete]

54 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

Teams coached by Torts generally know how to tighten up defensively and protect the net in exchange for less offense, to keep games close whether the team is overmatched or not. I remember his stint here thinking we just needed a good PP to put us over the top. Never got it. DeAngelo is one of the best in the business running a PP.

 

Tortorella hockey + a good PP can be a winning combination.

Gonna take more than ADA to fix their PP. If they get Gaudreau, that's cooking with gas. 

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Gonna take more than ADA to fix their PP. If they get Gaudreau, that's cooking with gas. 

Do they have the cap to do it?

[Pete]

26 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

Do they have the cap to do it?

Not sure. They have RFA decisions and they're trying to move Provorov. 

[Br4d]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:11 PM, CCCP said:

Or maybe Torts will mold him to be more defensively responsible 

ADA's are born not molded.  Just an opinion.

[Phil]

6 hours ago, rmc51 said:

Teams coached by Torts generally know how to tighten up defensively and protect the net in exchange for less offense, to keep games close whether the team is overmatched or not. I remember his stint here thinking we just needed a good PP to put us over the top. Never got it. DeAngelo is one of the best in the business running a PP.

 

Tortorella hockey + a good PP can be a winning combination.

 

I agree. I just don't think the Flyers have the roster to support it successfully (yet).