GDT 2021-22 NHL Trade Deadline: All in, Bay Bay!

[BrooksBurner]

20 hours ago, Phil said:

 

The problem is the third and fourth lines are still just where everyone else goes to hopefully find a role/place, like an island of leftover/misfit toys. They don't have an identity outside of the Rooney-Reaves duo, largely because Chytil is just a black hole of a player. Wherever he goes, he sucks ... everything into oblivion.

 

If the team is resigned to make Lafreniere and Kakko top-six RWs, fine, but the bottom-six should be carved out and well-defined. Any way you try, Chytil is the odd man out. He's big, but plays small, and undynamic hockey. And Barron probably isn't sniffing this roster in the playoffs unless he's the 13th forward.

 

Kreider-Zibanejad-Lafreniere

Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Lehkonen-Pavelski-Goodrow

Hunt-Rooney-Reaves/Gauthier

That's a playoffs lineup.

 

It also gives you a legitimate scoring threat in Pavelski to play outside your top-six, or even in it depending on how things shake out. Because Goodrow can play center just fine, so if things get tight, you can move Pavelski up to, say, Kakko's spot, move Kakko down to 3RW, and still go with a defensively responsible checking unit of Lehkonen-Goodrow-Kakko.

 

Yeah, this is a great option. I wouldn't pay the piper for Pavelski to stick him on the 3rd line. Put him in the top 6. He can also be the faceoff guy since Strome is still below average at those (side note: Zibanejad has really gotten better in the dot this year, great to see).

 

I would insist on a top 4 LD in addition to these moves. That would cap off an all-in strategy.

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

Thanks Phil.

 

I agree. I don't think Pittsburgh regrets Hossa at all. Getting the equivalent of a Hossa falls under the "go big" option for me, though, for sure.

 

Re: cap opportunity, I'm not sure. There always seems to be ways to make it work or to buy cap space (see: Tampa).

 

I mean, I guess, but that kind of capology is contingent on a factor they can't control in injuries. Having $30 million in available cap at the deadline isn't. It's stable, and intentional. They can get anyone. They completely control their own destiny. That fact, combined with what they have already — with what is working — is all the reason in the world to go for broke here in terms of the quality of personnel they should be after. There's no reason at all to settle for another John Mitchell deadline. It's arguably dereliction of duty to piss away this opportunity.

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

Yeah, this is a great option. I wouldn't pay the piper for Pavelski to stick him on the 3rd line. Put him in the top 6. He can also be the faceoff guy since Strome is still below average at those (side note: Zibanejad has really gotten better in the dot this year, great to see).

 

I would insist on a top 4 LD in addition to these moves. That would cap off an all-in strategy.

 

I mean, I'd want him there, too. I actually think that's what would end up happening, but the flexibility is huge.

 

On D, i don't know that they'll go for top-four, but I think swapping Nemeth out for a better veteran (Schenn?) would be wise.

[Long live the King]

38 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Why are teams going to settle for 2nd tier Rangers prospects when they can get top prospects from other teams?

I've been saying this to Ozzy since the last time we got together to watch a game.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

Because other teams also aren't going to offer their top prospects. Take a look at any major deal of late, the only team actively trading top prospects without a care is Vegas.

 

Additionally, must of the other 'buyers' have been buying for 2, 3, 4 years and don't have all that much left...

[BrooksBurner]

8 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

 

Yeah, no. They need to gear up now. What's the incentive to do so before and not now? Yes, they're a more physically capable team now, but are also one of the worst 5v5 teams in hockey. They're no longer even capable of generating opportunities off the rush as they had been in the past. Most anyone with a voice in hockey as said that the Rangers need to improve because they're being carried heavily by Shesterkin. Inaction isn't an option.

 

That statement works against you as much as it works for you, because the people who believe that probably don't believe it's an issue immediately fixable by rentals and mercenaries. For the record, I don't agree with that statement.  I think Shesterkin has been amazing, probably our best player, but this team's success isn't just because of Shesterkin.

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

That statement works against you as much as it works for you, because the people who believe that probably don't believe it's an issue immediately fixable by rentals and mercenaries. For the record, I don't agree with that statement.  I think Shesterkin has been amazing, probably our best player, but this team's success isn't just because of Shesterkin.

 

Shesterkin + elite PP. Their 5v5 scoring is putrid. They're 18th in ES goals (87) — the only team in playoff position in this territory.

[Ozzy]

34 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Shesterkin + elite PP. Their 5v5 scoring is putrid. They're 18th in ES goals (87) — the only team in playoff position in this territory.

 

When we shore up that 5v5 scoring, this team is going to be a damn juggernaut!!! 

 

I have a lot of faith Drury pulls off something great, and also smart for the stretch push/playoff run!

[BrooksBurner]

29 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Shesterkin + elite PP. Their 5v5 scoring is putrid. They're 18th in ES goals (87) — the only team in playoff position in this territory.

 

Putrid seems to be a bit strong. It's not elite and we would expect more given the talent, but it's in the median. They are what, 10 goals away from top 10/Tampa/St. Louis in this regard? It's just not that big of a difference across the span of 40-50 games. One extra ES goal for every 4-5 games played? Anyway, they are basically a wash on even strength goal differential. You could make the argument that's all they need to be given their special teams play.

[RJWantsTheCup]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

 

When we shore up that 5v5 scoring, this team is going to be a damn juggernaut!!! 

 

I have a lot of faith Drury pulls off something great, and also smart for the stretch push/playoff run!

 

Hopefully Drury doesn't pull off a Chytil, Lundkvist, Kravtsov and a #1 for a broken down Toews or something similar.

[Ozzy]

Just now, RJWantsTheCup said:

 

Hopefully Drury doesn't pull off a Chytil, Lundkvist, Kravtsov and a #1 for a broken down Toews or something similar.

 

He doesn't strike me as the type that would go that route, RJ.   

 

I'm thinking Drury may throw in one of the #2's, and possibly Kravvy for something big, like a Kane.  But I hope we land a tough, veteran 3C with some skill to play between Goodrow and Laffy.  I don't think we need to go nuts on defense...maybe just an upgrade to Nemeth, and that really shouldn't cost us a bunch I don't think.

 

The more I think about it, I still think Gourde would be perfect in that regard....I think Keith @Keirikhit that one right on the freakin' noggin!

Giroux would be fabulous too, but I just don't see the Flyers being any help to our cause any time soon.

Pavelski would be fine as well.  He fits the mold pretty well.

If Vancouver wants all that was listed for JT Miller, they can blow me!  LOL

 

It's gonna be fun when it goes down.  It will probably be tough to part with some of the guys that get dealt, but as long as we don't do anything stupid like dealing Schneider, Kakko or Yukon, I'll be fine with it.  I may have a beef with Zac going anywhere, but I can deal!  LOL

[Phil]

23 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

Putrid seems to be a bit strong. It's not elite and we would expect more given the talent, but it's in the median. They are what, 10 goals away from top 10/Tampa/St. Louis in this regard? It's just not that big of a difference across the span of 40-50 games. One extra ES goal for every 4-5 games played? Anyway, they are basically a wash on even strength goal differential. You could make the argument that's all they need to be given their special teams play.

 

I mean, you can mitigate to use whatever phrase. I'm fine with that. But the point stands — they're the only playoff team with ES scoring at a comparable rate with non playoff teams. That should be concerning given all we know of the change in refereeing in the playoffs. Something like 75% of the game is played at 5v5. They need to improve there — not dramatically, just improve — in order to be a better postseason threat.

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, you can mitigate to use whatever phrase. I'm fine with that. But the point stands — they're the only playoff team with ES scoring at a comparable rate with non playoff teams. That should be concerning given all we know of the change in refereeing in the playoffs. Something like 75% of the game is played at 5v5. They need to improve there — not dramatically, just improve — in order to be a better postseason threat.

I don’t think we even disagree on any of that, which is why I want to see them try to push themselves into the upper echelon. They are within range, which to me means they are not just reliant on Shesterkin which is what was insinuated. There’s a lot more substance here than simply riding the goaltender.

 

My disagreement was also with the idea that standing pat is invalid because Gorton/JD got flushed out for doing that under completely different circumstances. Even if I wouldn’t choose this direction myself, it’s perfectly reasonable to have reservations about the team or the kids being ready enough to start shoving all in. That’s why I kind of fear they might take a half-measure approach that improves the roster slightly but not nearly enough. Pick a lane. You’re in or you’re out. Don’t dip one toe in the water.

[Phil]

22 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I don’t think we even disagree on any of that, which is why I want to see them try to push themselves into the upper echelon. They are within range, which to me means they are not just reliant on Shesterkin which is what was insinuated. There’s a lot more substance here than simply riding the goaltender.

 

My disagreement was also with the idea that standing pat is invalid because Gorton/JD got flushed out for doing that under completely different circumstances. Even if I wouldn’t choose this direction myself, it’s perfectly reasonable to have reservations about the team or the kids being ready enough to start shoving all in. That’s why I kind of fear they might take a half-measure approach that improves the roster slightly but not nearly enough. Pick a lane. You’re in or you’re out. Don’t dip one toe in the water.

 

Right. Can't be half pregnant.

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

 

He doesn't strike me as the type that would go that route, RJ.   

 

I'm thinking Drury may throw in one of the #2's, and possibly Kravvy for something big, like a Kane.  But I hope we land a tough, veteran 3C with some skill to play between Goodrow and Laffy.  I don't think we need to go nuts on defense...maybe just an upgrade to Nemeth, and that really shouldn't cost us a bunch I don't think.

 

The more I think about it, I still think Gourde would be perfect in that regard....I think Keith @Keirikhit that one right on the freakin' noggin!

Giroux would be fabulous too, but I just don't see the Flyers being any help to our cause any time soon.

Pavelski would be fine as well.  He fits the mold pretty well.

If Vancouver wants all that was listed for JT Miller, they can blow me!  LOL

 

It's gonna be fun when it goes down.  It will probably be tough to part with some of the guys that get dealt, but as long as we don't do anything stupid like dealing Schneider, Kakko or Yukon, I'll be fine with it.  I may have a beef with Zac going anywhere, but I can deal!  LOL

The more I think about this the less validity I think it has.  Wouldn't we deal with them if they were in our position and wanted one of our aging vets for some of their futures? I can't imagine they'd care all that much about dealing with us.  The way I look at it is that if you're not the team hoisting the Stanley Cup at the end of the year, then you need to find the right pieces, regardless of where they come from, to become the team that does hoist the Cup.  Also, with the way the playoffs break down now, I think some of these area rivalries are more important for the fans then they are for the teams themselves.  Even then, most of these rivalries come with intense playoff battles which we've been missing for several years as well as some of our closest (geographic) rivals.  

[RJWantsTheCup]

Even if teams were never rivals by the end of a 7 game series they become rivals.

[Pete]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, I guess, but that kind of capology is contingent on a factor they can't control in injuries. Having $30 million in available cap at the deadline isn't. It's stable, and intentional. They can get anyone. They completely control their own destiny. That fact, combined with what they have already — with what is working — is all the reason in the world to go for broke here in terms of the quality of personnel they should be after. There's no reason at all to settle for another John Mitchell deadline. It's arguably dereliction of duty to piss away this opportunity.

Pretty much this. Standing pat is obviously an option but would be amazingly foolish to do that.

 

Let's say for argument that the front office did't think this team was gonna do anything this post season...Too inexperienced, shitty at 5v5...Fine. There will literally never be another situation where you:

1. Have this much cap space
2. Know who you "can" part with (Krav, Nils, picks, etc)
3. Have "this" team in a sense of Kreider being 50G guy, Shesty being a Vez nom, Fox another Norris nom (this is a more likely annual scenario, but still)

When you add it all up, it's found money. The IRS just refunded you $10K, do not pass Go, do not collect $200, cuz you don't need it... buy that hot tub baby, there's no reason not to. Low risk, high reward potential.

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Pretty much this. Standing pat is obviously an option but would be amazingly foolish to do that.

 

Let's say for argument that the front office did't think this team was gonna do anything this post season...Too inexperienced, shitty at 5v5...Fine. There will literally never be another situation where you:

1. Have this much cap space
2. Know who you "can" part with (Krav, Nils, picks, etc)
3. Have "this" team in a sense of Kreider being 50G guy, Shesty being a Vez nom, Fox another Norris nom (this is a more likely annual scenario, but still)

When you add it all up, it's found money. The IRS just refunded you $10K, do not pass Go, do not collect $200, cuz you don't need it... buy that hot tub baby, there's no reason not to. Low risk, high reward potential.

Yup. And worst case, you have a good time and maybe learn how to win.

[SaveByRichter35]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

Yup. And worst case, you have a good time and maybe learn how to win.

EXACTLY!  I don't know if it was this topic or another where I said it, but, why settle for a first or second round loss when you can bolster the team enough to maybe get to the conference finals.  Even if they don't win it all, give them the tools to go as far as they can.  

Edited February 5, 2022 by SaveByRichter35

[RichieNextel305]

Maybe Kreider can talk to Giroux about how great it’s going to be to win the Cup at MSG.

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by RichieNextel305

[Pete]

12 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Maybe Kreider can talk to Giroux about how great it’s going to be to win the Cup at MSG.

 

Giroux would say "Alec Martinez?" 

[The Dude]

7 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Welcome back.

 

I agree with most of this, but I'd draw one small distinction. Small moves and no moves is the same end result: failing to actually improve a good but flawed roster when you're never going to have this kind of cap opportunity for the foreseeable future. It's hard to argue either isn't a failure of leadership. Because even if you don't win the Cup, going far in the playoffs has tremendous value to young players who may need to learn to win before they can do it. Ask Pittsbugh if they regret the Hossa trade.

While I'm all for going big, I disagree with the thought that small moves are the same as no moves.

 

If the costs are just ridiculous to get one of the names being discussed,  I'm totally OK with going a tier or 2 down.  

 

I'd be happy as fuck if they could nab a guy like Brassard for peanuts. Atleast it's an upgrade.  Something is better than nothing.  

Edited February 5, 2022 by The Dude

[ThirtyONE]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Pretty much this. Standing pat is obviously an option but would be amazingly foolish to do that.

 

Let's say for argument that the front office did't think this team was gonna do anything this post season...Too inexperienced, shitty at 5v5...Fine. There will literally never be another situation where you:

1. Have this much cap space
2. Know who you "can" part with (Krav, Nils, picks, etc)
3. Have "this" team in a sense of Kreider being 50G guy, Shesty being a Vez nom, Fox another Norris nom (this is a more likely annual scenario, but still)

When you add it all up, it's found money. The IRS just refunded you $10K, do not pass Go, do not collect $200, cuz you don't need it... buy that hot tub baby, there's no reason not to. Low risk, high reward potential.

 

I'm ready to run through a wall.

[RichieNextel305]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Giroux would say "Alec Martinez?" 

[Phil]

14 hours ago, The Dude said:

While I'm all for going big, I disagree with the thought that small moves are the same as no moves.

 

If the costs are just ridiculous to get one of the names being discussed,  I'm totally OK with going a tier or 2 down.  

 

I'd be happy as fuck if they could nab a guy like Brassard for peanuts. Atleast it's an upgrade.  Something is better than nothing.  

 

No, it isn't, especially for a player like Brassard, who isn't remotely healthy.

[Phil]

14 hours ago, Pete said:

Giroux would say "Alec Martinez?" 

 

Kreider would reply, "Patrick Kane?"