RichieNextel305 Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Oh I completely agree. I think this group assembled here has the potential to be freakishly good in all aspects and win and win big. I loved the direction before we got lucky last August and wound up with Lafreniere, so I obviously love it significantly more now. I do think this current crop, once they grow with time, will be a powerhouse. I was just answering the question I saw posed. Nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 The Islanders are better built to play like that. Trotz did incredible work to do what he's done with them, but he wasn't given a team of figure skaters. Bailey, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Martin, Dal Colle, Lee, Komarov, Pageau, Coburn, Mayfield, Pulock, Pelech, etc. aren't being asked to do something/anything they weren't inherently capable of. Can the same be said of Zibanejad, Kakko, Strome, Panarin, Chytil, Miller, etc? I'm not so sure. There's like 5 guys on that list I'd consider to "play big". It's coaching. they buy into the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 I don’t disagree. But, that list of Islanders provided, each of those guys are either fiesty, agitating, hard hitters or aren’t afraid to get their nose dirty. The list provided for the Rangers closely resembles a list of like, 4 or 5 Barzal type finesse players who I wouldn’t even want getting into those dirty areas to begin with. Not saying it’s the worst thing in the world to have a bunch of super talented young forwards, believe me. I’d obviously like to see some muscle in to protect the property. While I do believe that they fully bought in to Trotz, I also think it kind of works two ways where getting this Islander team to play his brand of hockey isn’t the toughest match ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Trotz and that Islanders roster are a perfect fit. That said, the Rangers certainly have the make-up of a team that can complete dominate that team. We just need to add those 2/3 pieces and have the rest come along. WEEEEEE are all in agreement on the fixin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 I’m not saying this even close to being biased, but the talent level on the Rangers right now is surreal. The Rangers are a rare breed. There’s a saying in sports that goes: “You can’t win on talent alone.” The Rangers can effectively deem that a lie on some nights, because on some nights, their talent can simply overwhelm an opponent and kick their asses out of the building before a game is half way over. When this team will be incredibly lethal and deadly is when they put everything together and realize that more often than not, that that quote is true. Once they learn to use their talent and bring a solid 60-65 minute effort every night, this team will truly be a sight to see. And it’ll happen. It’ll come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 There's like 5 guys on that list I'd consider to "play big". It's coaching. they buy into the system. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.And I think a lot of that has to do with coaching. TBH, looks like a lot of guys quit on Quinn this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 And I think a lot of that has to do with coaching. TBH, looks like a lot of guys quit on Quinn this year. Oh, 100%. Brooks had some story about it toward the end of the year about there being a "disconnect" between the coach and the top players. That's just a journalistic euphemism for "quit on him." I also think coaching is a big factor. I think you can absolutely coach some of these guys to be more aggressive, but I also think you'd be painting stripes on a house cat with most of them. The same way we're still waiting on McDonagh's mean streak. You don't "develop" that kind of thing this late in the game. You either have it or you don't. That's what I mean by composition. A guy like Greenway, for example. It's in his DNA. It's a foundational aspect of his game. I seriously doubt any change in coaching is going to get Zibanejad to start emulating Forsberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Oh, 100%. Brooks had some story about it toward the end of the year about there being a "disconnect" between the coach and the top players. That's just a journalistic euphemism for "quit on him." I also think coaching is a big factor. I think you can absolutely coach some of these guys to be more aggressive, but I also think you'd be painting stripes on a house cat with most of them. The same way we're still waiting on McDonagh's mean streak. You don't "develop" that kind of thing this late in the game. You either have it or you don't. That's what I mean by composition. A guy like Greenway, for example. It's in his DNA. It's a foundational aspect of his game. I seriously doubt any change in coaching is going to get Zibanejad to start emulating Forsberg.I also think you're kind of falling into the trap of team toughness versus imposing their will on the game. The Rangers are a perimeter team who rely on finesse, but even guys who are built like Zib, Kreider, Lafreniere, Kakko are big enough to get to the middle of the ice. It's not about going out there and hitting everything that moves. It's about simple plays that get you to the middle of the ice instead of a bunch of fancy plays where you're trying to throw the puck through the middle of the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 22, 2021 Author Share Posted May 22, 2021 That's not what I'm asking for -- I'm asking for aggressive forechecking, and bullish attempts at the net. Ozzy posted up a phenomenal shift (that ends in a fight) from Greenway. That's what I want. Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to not have the puck to hit people either. Forsberg made a career of it. He'd routinely chip the puck into a defenders skates and then run him over and immediately recover it. But what I really want more of is guys getting the fuck off the wall and not passing sixty seven times looking for a perfect shot that never comes. Get into the zone and make simpler plays. Shot on net, crash the net. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 How long are we going to use the "superstar linemate" argument, that's already been debunked? Strome put up points with Panarin on the sidelines, and frankly IIRC Kreider went cold immediately after being moved away from Strome. It takes good players to play with good players, and if we use the "Panarin logic", the RW on that line would be raking points as well. As we've seen with Fast, Kakko, Blackwell...That's just not the case. Per Leftwing Lock, Strome played with 4 different linemates, in various combinations, this year (Panarin, Kreider, Blackwell, Kakko). Chytil also played with 4 (Kakko, Laf, Gauthier, Rooney). Where's the revolving door? And frankly, Quinn did a fantastic job sheltering Chytil. One of the most favorable zone starts and QoC on team. Also per LWL As far as PP time...I mean Blackwell was playing C on until #2...Chytil couldn't even push him out? And not sure what a few seconds on PP2 would have done. I debunked the "debunked" argument already a while ago already. 9 games without Panarin doesn't prove or disprove anything. Too small of a sample size. Continuity and quality matters re: linemates, of course. Take a look at the groups you gave, and you know as well as I do who's going to be on Strome's left when he's not getting smeared by the Russians. I would hope he got sheltered. He's worse than Strome at faceoffs, which is obviously really bad. Chytil had the same point production as Blackwell in 5 less games, and all at even strength while Blackwell got the PP time. Chytil produced plenty to push him out. Quinn just Quinn'd it. Now Quinn is looking for a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 And I think a lot of that has to do with coaching. Coaching is a big part of it. I think at the very least, the right coach can offset some if not all of the lack of diversity in the lineup. It's why I'm really intrigued by Gallant. He took a bunch of misfits in Vegas, got them to play his way, buy into his system and perform waaaaaay above their station. I guess hindsight shows us that group was a probably better than they were given credit for at the start of that season, but Gallant still played a huge part. That team played hard, going 100mph every night, were sons of bitches to play against, was a proper north/south team that went to the net all night long and were true to their system. For many of those players that type of game was a good fit, but certainly not all of them. In many ways, that team was like what Quinn said his Rangers team was going to look like when he started the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 ... But what I really want more of is guys getting the fuck off the wall and not passing sixty seven times looking for a perfect shot that never comes. Get into the zone and make simpler plays. Shot on net, crash the net. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Isn't that what I just said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 I debunked the "debunked" argument already a while ago already. 9 games without Panarin doesn't prove or disprove anything. Too small of a sample size. Continuity and quality matters re: linemates, of course. Take a look at the groups you gave, and you know as well as I do who's going to be on Strome's left when he's not getting smeared by the Russians. I would hope he got sheltered. He's worse than Strome at faceoffs, which is obviously really bad. Chytil had the same point production as Blackwell in 5 less games, and all at even strength while Blackwell got the PP time. Chytil produced plenty to push him out. Quinn just Quinn'd it. Now Quinn is looking for a job. Your grasping at straws. Chytil was the most sheltered forward on the team. His production doesn't signal he's ready to take Strome's job. He put up points in easier matchups. Strome put up more,in harder ones. It's a false equivalence. Want to talk about quality and frequency, Strome might have had Panarin on on side but he had Fast on the other. This year he had the "revolving door" of Blackwell, Kakko, Kravtsov. I think I proved my point so I'm going to stop beating the dead horse. It's really, really dead at this point LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 Your grasping at straws. Chytil was the most sheltered forward on the team. His production doesn't signal he's ready to take Strome's job. He put up points in easier matchups. Strome put up more,in harder ones. It's a false equivalence. Want to talk about quality and frequency, Strome might have had Panarin on on side but he had Fast on the other. This year he had the "revolving door" of Blackwell, Kakko, Kravtsov. I think I proved my point so I'm going to stop beating the dead horse. It's really, really dead at this point LOL. http://www.blueshirtsbrotherhood.com/showthread.php?24078-2021-Offseason-Thread-New-Year-Same-Problems&p=1071063&viewfull=1#post1071063 Looks like we'll go around in circles, because you keep shifting the goalposts of the argument. My point still stands. Chytil has outproduced and proven more than Kakko and Kravtsov. He is more ready to move up the lineup than the other two, even if he isn't "ready". And, again, I wouldn't want to move any of them up in responsibility when the goal is playoffs next year, but even so, Chytil has proven the most of the three that he could possibly produce at a reasonable clip at 2C playing with a superstar more than Kakko and Kravtsov can handle 1 and 2 RW. Between Buch and Strome, if you are keeping one longish term, Buchnevich over Strome is the better decision. I don't see the team winning a thing with both Zib and Strome down the middle in the top 6. It's soft. They suck at faceoffs. They shrink in physical games. Redundant. A different 3C doesn't really fix that. I mentioned it before, if you really want to keep Strome, I could see an argument to keep Strome @ 6.5-7 before Zibanejad @ 9-10 if those are the prices. I don't keep both though. Strome is younger. Good rapport with our best player. No concern with injury history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 Buch, Chytil, Kakko,.Strome.... Any replacement needs to be an upgrade that adds more to the team. Pretty much anyone can be labeled a depth casualty, but they HAVE to make sure they are upgrades. As much as we want physicality, we can't lose a top offensive talent for Lawson Crouse and then wonder why he's not putting up points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 Hmmmm....Not really sure I buy this part of it. Panarin took less than other teams offered. Trouba forced a trade here and then Gorton gave him top dollar...Would have thought if you knew a player wanted to be here, you could get them at a discount. Didn't even have to be a discount. Even just market rate at like 7M would have been a lot more tolerable. I think had he stayed in Winnipeg on a 1 year arb deal, he goes to $6.5. That’s the general consensus too from experts. Friedman, Mackenzie, etc all said that. He costs you probably $7 million or better on a long term deal in free agency. Only Florida offered Panarin more money that we know of. And that’s probably accurate. And who wants to be a hockey player in Florida? Ever been to Sunrise, FL? It sucks. I just moved to South Florida 6 months ago. Nothing in Sunrise. It’s all old people And let’s not forget.... it’s NYC. Nowhere in the country has higher COL. And they gave him more for that and to keep him from FA It’s not a gross overpayment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 I think had he stayed in Winnipeg on a 1 year arb deal, he goes to $6.5. That’s the general consensus too from experts. Friedman, Mackenzie, etc all said that. He costs you probably $7 million or better on a long term deal in free agency. Only Florida offered Panarin more money that we know of. And that’s probably accurate. And who wants to be a hockey player in Florida? Ever been to Sunrise, FL? It sucks. I just moved to South Florida 6 months ago. Nothing in Sunrise. It’s all old people And let’s not forget.... it’s NYC. Nowhere in the country has higher COL. And they gave him more for that and to keep him from FA It’s not a gross overpayment. Trouba at market would have been fine. We paid about a million, million and a half a year too much. Heck, even in a normal cap world...probably fine. Especially with the escalator from the new TV deal that would have pushed the cap into something like the 90m+ range. Panarin got offered more money by Florida, Columbus, and the Islanders. I believe the Islanders offered him 7 years, 91m, the Jackets offered 8 years, 96m. So yeah, he turned down nearly 15 million to play for the Rangers. Also, Sunrise blows, but there's some cool shit nearby. Tons of good breweries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 WHat they need is a Cally like individual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 WHat they need is a Cally like individual I'd probably lean more towards a Dubinsky. Center, bigger, more of in your face asshole. He brought a different douchebaggery that would benefit this squad more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Need couple of more Canadian boys. But then again...Howden is Canadian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 Need Canadian farm boys. Howden looks like he just walked out of a downtown Toronto condo that his investor parents bought him. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddious Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Need Canadian farm boys. Howden looks like he just walked out of a downtown Toronto condo that his investor parents bought him. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk This is so accurate lol Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 New York Sod Farm Rangers. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Need Canadian farm boys. Howden looks like he just walked out of a downtown Toronto condo that his investor parents bought him. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by TapatalkHowden is from Oakbank, Manitoba, population 4600... Just sayin lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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