Targets to Break the Rangers' Homogeneity?

[Pete]

Kakko played 66 games in a 56 game season where he missed time on COVID protocol? That's impressive.

[Drew a Penalty]

Well I don't understand it. Kakko played 66 games last season. No camp, no preseason, no minors stint,, no preparation for the NHL.

 

You can't decide after such a weird season that you have to make dramatic changes to your top prospect. I think that's ridiculous.

 

Gauthier didn’t play a perimeter game, so I don't know where you got that from. Come to think of it he was a part of the only line that did anything in the first 15 games or so.. I believe it was Lafreniere Chytil and Gauthier who were the only line doing anything. Then Chytil got hurt and Gauthier was thrown to the 4th line. The 4th line really never came together. It was a mish mosh of players that didn't seem to have any direction..

 

After a weird season? They've been trying to help Kakko out for two seasons. It was after his first season that Kakko came out and said that the coaching staff was attempting to get him to take a different approach. It's not a dramatic change. It's telling him to stop trying the same move repeatedly that wasn't working. Is it wrong for him to develop skills to make him a complete player? Do you think he has to delete certain processes from his brain to learn new ones?

 

Gauthier did play a perimeter game. What don't you understand that they were trying to help him? That the positives in his game were actually stemming from the right direction. They repeatedly said on broadcasts how much they were trying to get him to use his body. Do you think they were lying? If Gauthier wasn't using his body enough then what do you think he was doing? Connect the dots.

[Drew a Penalty]

All things being equal and with the hindsight we have - I'd have paid Fast and just held DeAngelo to the coals until he buckled. We should never have let Fast go.

 

Letting Fast go was stupid when now all they're doing is trying to find a new Fast.

[Phil]

Letting Fast go was stupid when now all they're doing is trying to find a new Fast.

 

Especially over what he ended up signing for. How in the fuck was Fast not worth $2M x 2?

[Phil]

Thank god “Make Mistakes Faster” is fucking done!!

 

I can already see the brand campaign taking flight...

[LindG1000]

Kakko played 66 games in a 56 game season where he missed time on COVID protocol? That's impressive.

 

The powers of a 2nd overall pick are limitless.

[Drew a Penalty]

Especially over what he ended up signing for. How in the fuck was Fast not worth $2M x 2?

 

Even with the hesitancy to add that extra year, I don't get it. So what if it was $2M x 3? You're going to be competing through that span and spending that money on an equivalent player anyway. Just keep the one you have and know is good.

[The Dude]

Kakko has never been a dangler. He's a possession-based projectable big wing with a good shot. Not sure where you got "dangler" from here.

 

Meanwhile, Kakko's gone from "worst defensive forward" in the NHL to "a non-scoring Mark Stone" as a barely 20 year old with no meaningful special teams time, and Julien Gauthier went from "tons of wasted potential" to "tons of wasted potential in the press box". Maybe we should just accept that one of them earned something and the other didn't.

 

We get it - you hated Quinn for offing your boys and won't give him a lick of credit for anything else he's done. Quinn's gone. We have no idea how Gallant views either of these players and we have no idea how Gallant will utilize them. We do know that Gallant happens to like big players, good skaters, and people who work hard. Kakko will probably be fine, in no small part because Quinn made him work to play two-way hockey. Gauthier? TBD, but Gallant tends to like players of his skillset. Maybe he gets a chance.

 

Hmm yeah, the discussion I was having with Drew was brought up by Drew saying Kakko was used to dangling his way through defenders or something. Which is correct. Kakkos game was more or less him having the puck for long stretches and weaving through would be defenders and taking the shot. Unless I'm wrong about the definition of dangler??

 

How about we look at what Kakko's draft status was to what he is now? Elite shooter who likes to have the puck to Jesper Fast or "Non scoring Mark Stone " as is THAT is a good thing.

 

Maybe we should accept that Quinn wasn't very good at player development? Or that he couldn't develop a game plan that suited his young players?

 

As far as giving Quinn credit for anything else he's done... What exactly DID he do? What players weren't going to ascend without him here?

 

Maybe Buch? Or maybe Buch becomes a more offensive minded player? Lindgren? Lmao he was forced to use him and had he not been "on" during his call up, he probably never sniffs NHL ice here.. Miller was forced in due to lack of actual competition. Fox was going to be good no matter the coach. Zibanejad? Nah. He was on his way under AV.

 

I'll give you Strome. Strome and Buchnevich.

 

Who are my boys?

 

I hope Gallant can work with high level talent. He has a very talented group here, but seems like his claim to fame is taking guys with less skill and putting them to use in a way that suites their abilities. Very good with scrap heap players. But how is he with elite guys? Is he going to be OK with Panarin floating sometimes? I hope so.

[LindG1000]

Hmm yeah, the discussion I was having with Drew was brought up by Drew saying Kakko was used to dangling his way through defenders or something. Which is correct. Kakkos game was more or less him having the puck for long stretches and weaving through would be defenders and taking the shot. Unless I'm wrong about the definition of dangler??

 

How about we look at what Kakko's draft status was to what he is now? Elite shooter who likes to have the puck to Jesper Fast or "Non scoring Mark Stone " as is THAT is a good thing.

 

Maybe we should accept that Quinn wasn't very good at player development? Or that he couldn't develop a game plan that suited his young players?

 

As far as giving Quinn credit for anything else he's done... What exactly DID he do? What players weren't going to ascend without him here?

 

Maybe Buch? Or maybe Buch becomes a more offensive minded player? Lindgren? Lmao he was forced to use him and had he not been "on" during his call up, he probably never sniffs NHL ice here.. Miller was forced in due to lack of actual competition. Fox was going to be good no matter the coach. Zibanejad? Nah. He was on his way under AV.

 

I'll give you Strome. Strome and Buchnevich.

 

Who are my boys?

 

I hope Gallant can work with high level talent. He has a very talented group here, but seems like his claim to fame is taking guys with less skill and putting them to use in a way that suites their abilities. Very good with scrap heap players. But how is he with elite guys? Is he going to be OK with Panarin floating sometimes? I hope so.

 

We're not relitigating Quinn again. He's gone. Get over it.

 

Gallant had Ekblad, Huberdeau, Barkov, Trocheck, and Jagr in his first full season. He got a 43 point season out of Nick Bjugstad and a 19 goal season out of Jimmy Hayes. He's got a track record of building and nurturing elite talent too.

[Stephen]

We're not relitigating Quinn again. He's gone. Get over it.

 

Gallant had Ekblad, Huberdeau, Barkov, Trocheck, and Jagr in his first full season. He got a 43 point season out of Nick Bjugstad and a 19 goal season out of Jimmy Hayes. He's got a track record of building and nurturing elite talent too.

 

Not to mention transforming William Karlson from a bottom-six no-name forward to a key piece of the Vegas top-six.

[The Dude]

After a weird season? They've been trying to help Kakko out for two seasons. It was after his first season that Kakko came out and said that the coaching staff was attempting to get him to take a different approach. It's not a dramatic change. It's telling him to stop trying the same move repeatedly that wasn't working. Is it wrong for him to develop skills to make him a complete player? Do you think he has to delete certain processes from his brain to learn new ones?

 

Gauthier did play a perimeter game. What don't you understand that they were trying to help him? That the positives in his game were actually stemming from the right direction. They repeatedly said on broadcasts how much they were trying to get him to use his body. Do you think they were lying? If Gauthier wasn't using his body enough then what do you think he was doing? Connect the dots.

 

I'll admit I misspoke about last season. This season was the weird one. I screwed that up.

But after the covid break last season he actually came back and looked good doing what he was trying to do all season. He WAS carrying the puck and shaking defenders out of their skates. To me it is a drastic change. He seems to NOT want to carry puck at all. You think it helped him. I say it scrambled his brain and no longer relies on his natural instinct of doing what got him drafted 2nd overall.

 

I never heard them talk about Gauthier repeatedly as you claim. More or less applauding how he would shield the puck with his body while taking it to the net. What were they "helping him with"? ???? He never played. When he DID his line produced.

 

The guy isn't a grinder. That doesn't mean he's a perimeter player. He's not afraid of contact. He just doesn't seem to be a dump and chase guy that wants to spend time along the boards. More or less just goes for it. If they were talking about using his body more along the boards, then again.. They aren't using the player to the best of his ability. Obviously it'd be awesome if he was a guy that could do that. He's huge and a good skater. But as we all know, some players just don't have that in them. Was Brian Boyle a perimeter player. Mother fucker stayed away from the boards AND physical play, but was good defensively.. Why did nobody abandon him as a player? Instead finding use for what he actually did do? Shitty skater and all.

[Phil]

Not to mention transforming William Karlson from a bottom-six no-name forward to a key piece of the Vegas top-six.

 

For a year or so. He's come crashing back to earth. He went from 43 goals to 24 in his first two (full) seasons under Gallant, then down to 15 in 63 in Gallant's final Vegas season.

 

 

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[The Dude]

All things being equal and with the hindsight we have - I'd have paid Fast and just held DeAngelo to the coals until he buckled. We should never have let Fast go.

 

What'd he do this year in his new team? Oh yeah. More Jesper Fast numbers. 6 goals 13 assists.

 

WWWWWOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!

 

I'll never understand how people pine over guys like that. Mediocre, PK specialist. Yawn. We have Kevin Rooney here to be Jesper Fast. Costs a quarter the salary, will fight will put up the same numbers.

 

FUCK Jesper Fast

[BrooksBurner]

All things being equal and with the hindsight we have - I'd have paid Fast and just held DeAngelo to the coals until he buckled. We should never have let Fast go.

 

No doubt. Huge mistake not keeping Fast.

[BrooksBurner]

What'd he do this year in his new team? Oh yeah. More Jesper Fast numbers. 6 goals 13 assists.

 

WWWWWOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!

 

I'll never understand how people pine over guys like that. Mediocre, PK specialist. Yawn. We have Kevin Rooney here to be Jesper Fast. Costs a quarter the salary, will fight will put up the same numbers.

 

FUCK Jesper Fast

 

Rooney was serviceable, but are you really telling me you don't see a difference between the two?

[The Dude]

Especially over what he ended up signing for. How in the fuck was Fast not worth $2M x 2?

 

I'd think the plan was to get a more productive player to play opposite Panarin. They had Kakko, Kravstov, Gauthier, Chytil, Buchnevich , Lafreniere and Kreider as options. The coach chose Blackwell over all the options.. Blackwell.

[josh]

Kakko played 66 games in a 56 game season where he missed time on COVID protocol? That's impressive.

 

A new level of invisible.

[josh]

All things being equal and with the hindsight we have - I'd have paid Fast and just held DeAngelo to the coals until he buckled. We should never have let Fast go.

 

Fast would have taken so much shit last season.

 

I think everyone moved on at the right time.

[Drew a Penalty]

I'll admit I misspoke about last season. This season was the weird one. I screwed that up.

But after the covid break last season he actually came back and looked good doing what he was trying to do all season. He WAS carrying the puck and shaking defenders out of their skates. To me it is a drastic change. He seems to NOT want to carry puck at all. You think it helped him. I say it scrambled his brain and no longer relies on his natural instinct of doing what got him drafted 2nd overall.

 

I never heard them talk about Gauthier repeatedly as you claim. More or less applauding how he would shield the puck with his body while taking it to the net. What were they "helping him with"? ???? He never played. When he DID his line produced.

 

The guy isn't a grinder. That doesn't mean he's a perimeter player. He's not afraid of contact. He just doesn't seem to be a dump and chase guy that wants to spend time along the boards. More or less just goes for it. If they were talking about using his body more along the boards, then again.. They aren't using the player to the best of his ability. Obviously it'd be awesome if he was a guy that could do that. He's huge and a good skater. But as we all know, some players just don't have that in them. Was Brian Boyle a perimeter player. Mother fucker stayed away from the boards AND physical play, but was good defensively.. Why did nobody abandon him as a player? Instead finding use for what he actually did do? Shitty skater and all.

 

His line produced? Produced what? He was on the ice for 10 GF all season, 16 GA. It's not even like there are some underlying stats that say he should've been doing much better. His xGF 9.73 pretty much right in line with his actual production. Maybe you should pay more attention to the broadcasts because I don't know what you're doing.

 

They were literally saying they want him to drop the shoulder and drive the net more. To be more of a physical presence that's hard to deal with. The same shit we complain about Kreider not doing. Gauthier is guilty of all of the same issues.

[The Dude]

Rooney was serviceable, but are you really telling me you don't see a difference between the two?

 

No. Only difference is one got pushed up the lineup for an extended amount of time and did nothing with it. The other stayed put on the 4th line where he belongs and still scored more goals. Give me Rooney at league minimum to fight, PK and put up shit offensive numbers like he's supposed to..

 

They pretty much do the same thing well. PK and have hands of stone.

 

FUCK Jesper Fast.

[Phil]

I'd think the plan was to get a more productive player to play opposite Panarin. They had Kakko, Kravstov, Gauthier, Chytil, Buchnevich , Lafreniere and Kreider as options. The coach chose Blackwell over all the options.. Blackwell.

 

No, they didn't. They had Kakko, Gauthier, and Buchnevich. Chytil and Blackwell are/were centers. Blackwell happened to move there, eventually. Lafreniere and Kreider are left wings. Kravtsov didn't even come over until nearly April when his KHL season ended. They got like what, 20 regular season games out of him?

 

I don't think the plan was to get a productive player as much as it was the hope that Kakko would take a massive step forward, which he didn't (offensively). Carp even noted in a recent story that Panarin repeatedly requested Blackwell instead of Kakko on his line, which thoroughly explains why he ended up there.

[The Dude]

His line produced? Produced what? He was on the ice for 10 GF all season, 16 GA. It's not even like there are some underlying stats that say he should've been doing much better. His xGF 9.73 pretty much right in line with his actual production. Maybe you should pay more attention to the broadcasts because I don't know what you're doing.

 

They were literally saying they want him to drop the shoulder and drive the net more. To be more of a physical presence that's hard to deal with. The same shit we complain about Kreider not doing. Gauthier is guilty of all of the same issues.

 

Chytils line was the only line that clicked. He was on that line. I don't know what else you want me to say. Was that line NOT clicking? 10 GF allll season? He played 30 games and averaged like 9 min. That's bad???

 

By comparison how'd Fast do this year?? He scored 4 more fucking goals and averaged around 15 minutes a night. This from the guy people are crying about not signing?????

 

As for being guilty of doing what Kreider does. The fucking kid has only played 47 career games. He has to get it right away? From what I've seen this past season, Gauthier did what your suggesting he doesn't do, on the reg. Sorry I don't recall Sam and Joe having a sit down and discussing this so called issue on MSG. Nor do I recall them going on and on about it game after game. SORRY.

[Drew a Penalty]

Chytils line was the only line that clicked. He was on that line. I don't know what else you want me to say. Was that line NOT clicking? 10 GF allll season? He played 30 games and averaged like 9 min. That's bad???

 

By comparison how'd Fast do this year?? He scored 4 more fucking goals and averaged around 15 minutes a night. This from the guy people are crying about not signing?????

 

As for being guilty of doing what Kreider does. The fucking kid has only played 47 career games. He has to get it right away? From what I've seen this past season, Gauthier did what your suggesting he doesn't do, on the reg. Sorry I don't recall Sam and Joe having a sit down and discussing this so called issue on MSG. Nor do I recall them going on and on about it game after game. SORRY.

 

Yes. 10 GF all season. See for yourself here: Link.

 

Fast was on for 16 GF all season. He was also playing an entirely different role than the one he played here in NY. He was on Carolina's third line. And it doesn't shock me that you're missing the point of why Fast was liked by Panarin on that line. He wasn't there to be productive, he was there to help Panarin and Strome be productive. Which he did with great success considering they both had career years on his line. Oh, and Carolina put Fast on their second PP which he never was on here. He was on for another 16 GF there. Brind'amour is supposed to be this super forward-thinking and sought-after coach. Do you think you know better than him? I know you don't.

 

Gauthier is going to be 24 in October. He's not some kid who hasn't had the chance to develop. He spent three seasons in the AHL where he had some success. Yet even Carolina didn't want him. They'd rather be paying for and playing Jesper Fast.

[The Dude]

No, they didn't. They had Kakko, Gauthier, and Buchnevich. Chytil and Blackwell are/were centers. Blackwell happened to move there, eventually. Lafreniere and Kreider are left wings. Kravtsov didn't even come over until nearly April when his KHL season ended. They got like what, 20 regular season games out of him?

 

I don't think the plan was to get a productive player as much as it was the hope that Kakko would take a massive step forward, which he didn't (offensively). Carp even noted in a recent story that Panarin repeatedly requested Blackwell instead of Kakko on his line, which thoroughly explains why he ended up there.

 

Ummm yeah, that's why we are having this discussion. I commented on that. I found it disturbing that a player would request to not have a player on his line. Especially after they groomed said player to fit what they wanted (for what ever reason they wanted a Fast clone) from that spot.

 

 

Chytil wasn't a guarantee as a center. He even moved to wing at one point this season didn't he? The talk all pre season was if Lafreniere or Kreider would switch to RW to accommodatethelog jamof LWs.. Infact didn't Lafreniere play a bit of RW this season? Crap maybe even with Panarin for like a shift or 2? Yes Kravtsov came at the end of the season, but you'd think they planned to have him here at some point. Such a player SHOULD play in the top 6/9. He was an option.

 

Nevermind the thought that they could trade for someone that fit better.

 

I didn't mention Blackwell as an option. Only as what the coach picked. He picked a center...

[Phil]

Ummm yeah, that's why we are having this discussion. I commented on that. I found it disturbing that a player would request to not have a player on his line. Especially after they groomed said player to fit what they wanted (for what ever reason they wanted a Fast clone) from that spot.

 

 

Chytil wasn't a guarantee as a center. He even moved to wing at one point this season didn't he? The talk all pre season was if Lafreniere or Kreider would switch to RW to accommodatethelog jamof LWs.. Infact didn't Lafreniere play a bit of RW this season? Crap maybe even with Panarin for like a shift or 2? Yes Kravtsov came at the end of the season, but you'd think they planned to have him here at some point. Such a player SHOULD play in the top 6/9. He was an option.

 

Nevermind the thought that they could trade for someone that fit better.

 

I didn't mention Blackwell as an option. Only as what the coach picked. He picked a center...

 

The coach picked a player who most closely resembles what Jesper Fast is — a puck retriever. First in on the forecheck. Unafraid to go into the corner and dig out a puck to get it back to Panarin and Strome, and who can play effective hockey without the puck.

 

Ergo, they should simply have just kept Fast.