confirmed: Rangers Trade Brendan Lemieux to LAK For 4th Round Pick

[Long live the King]

Out of 8 games between 2/26 and 3/15 he had 4 games over 12 minutes and 2 under 10. One bad game with penalties and he was shuffled back to the annex like his name was Toby Flenderson, where he was benched for a week and then reverted back to under 9 minutes.

 

Well, the game 3/15 is when he was living in the box...

 

11:24

12:10

13:56

12:59

09:38

11:22

15:23

11:25

 

He was getting solid minutes on the third line. His 'one bad game with penalties' directly resulted in them loosing the game. He was punished. He's back in. He's working to earn back the coach's trust and his role. It's almost like they are trying to teach him what he has to do to be an effective NHL player. Kinda like development.

[ThirtyONE]

It's so hilarious to me that you have to "punish" an adult for taking a penalty, as if he didn't realize he made a mistake when he sat in the penalty box while the other team scored.

[Sharpshooter]

Hit him with a wooden spoon when he gets back to the bench. That will show him.

[Long live the King]

Inadvertent high sticking while trying to play defense is not what I'd consider a "horrible penalty." I'd call that "hockey."

 

It's so hilarious to me that you have to "punish" an adult. As if he didn't realize he made a mistake when he sat in the penalty box while the other team scored.

 

So you'd think after the first high stick he'd say to himself, "Shit, I gotta stop reaching and move my feet. I need to keep my stick down." But he didn't. Holding individual players accountable to the team is one of the head coach's main job duties.

 

Adults get punished all the time. Nearly every profession has a disciplinary process for when people fuck up. Not sure why that is hilarious?

[ThirtyONE]

Hit him with a wooden spoon when he gets back to the bench. That will show him.

 

Oh, you made a mistake? Great, now I'll "teach" you never to make mistakes again.

[Long live the King]

Oh, you made a mistake? Great, now I'll "teach" you never to make mistakes again.

 

Totally, teaching is dumb.

 

 

Why do people complain about Quinn not developing the prospects? You can't "teach" adults. Just let them go freewheel around. Why even have a coach at all? All these adults can just do their own thing.

[ThirtyONE]

So you'd think after the first high stick he'd say to himself, "Shit, I gotta stop reaching and move my feet. I need to keep my stick down." But he didn't. Holding individual players accountable to the team is one of the head coach's main job duties.

 

Adults get punished all the time. Nearly every profession has a disciplinary process for when people fuck up. Not sure why that is hilarious?

 

Yeah it's called sitting in the penalty box. Punishment is written into the rulebook.

 

Trying to beat mistakes out of someone isn't the way to teach someone. The game of hockey is made up of mistakes. If a player is afraid of making mistakes, they'll never be any good. Did you hear Gauthier's response to the benchings? They don't exactly speak to someone who's acknowledging he's made a mistake and deserves his time-out. He doesn't sound like he's "learing from his mistakes" at all. It sounds like someone who's frustrated because he doesn't know what keeps him in the lineup.

 

Yes. The coaches job is to make players accountable. But when a player is benched for inadvertent high sticking penalty it's a meaningless exercise. Other players have taken that penalty. Other players have taken penalties at bad times (Kreider and Buch seemingly the biggest culprits of this) and yet those players aren't benched for 3-4 game spans. The only player who's been repeatedly punished for those mistakes is Gauthier.

 

And this is recent either, this is going back to game #1 where the whole team was absolutely horrendous and Gauther was arguably their best forward. After spending the entirety of camp on the 3rd line he was removed entirely from the lineup for 2-3 games.

[Pete]

Yeah it's called sitting in the penalty box. Punishment is written into the rulebook.

 

Trying to beat mistakes out of someone isn't the way to teach someone. The game of hockey is made up of mistakes. If a player is afraid of making mistakes, they'll never be any good. Did you hear Gauthier's response to the benchings? They don't exactly speak to someone who's acknowledging he's made a mistake and deserves his time-out. He doesn't sound like he's "learing from his mistakes" at all. It sounds like someone who's frustrated because he doesn't know what keeps him in the lineup.

 

Yes. The coaches job is to make players accountable. But when a player is benched for inadvertent high sticking penalty it's a meaningless exercise. Other players have taken that penalty. Other players have taken penalties at bad times. The only player who's been repeatedly punished for those mistakes is Gauthier.

 

Reading this and seeing the name at the end, made me realize you can probably swap in 5-6 other names over the last decade and the paragraph reads the same. Every year there's a player who's "victimized" by the coach. Then they go somewhere else and they are still terrible. Last year was Lias. This year it Goat, who by the way is one of the dumbest players I've ever seen in the NHL. I mean he was traded for Joey Keane (who isn't even on an AHL active roster right now) straight up. I'd expect a 4th line forward in return for that.

[Long live the King]

Yeah it's called sitting in the penalty box. Punishment is written into the rulebook.

 

Trying to beat mistakes out of someone isn't the way to teach someone. The game of hockey is made up of mistakes. If a player is afraid of making mistakes, they'll never be any good. Did you hear Gauthier's response to the benchings? They don't exactly speak to someone who's acknowledging he's made a mistake and deserves his time-out. He doesn't sound like he's "learing from his mistakes" at all. It sounds like someone who's frustrated because he doesn't know what keeps him in the lineup.

 

Yes. The coaches job is to make players accountable. But when a player is benched for inadvertent high sticking penalty it's a meaningless exercise. Other players have taken that penalty. Other players have taken penalties at bad times (Kreider and Buch seemingly the biggest culprits of this) and yet those players aren't benched for 3-4 game spans. The only player who's been repeatedly punished for those mistakes is Gauthier.

 

If he only had the first penalty and then said to himself, "Shit, I gotta stop reaching and move my feet. I need to keep my stick down." he'd likely have been fine.

 

He is learning. That was evidenced by earning the 3rd line role, before this set back.

 

Do you really not see the difference between veterans with 557 (Kreider), 280 (Buch), 525 (Strome) games played and a rookie with 41 (Gauthier)?

[ThirtyONE]

If he only had the first penalty and then said to himself, "Shit, I gotta stop reaching and move my feet. I need to keep my stick down." he'd likely have been fine.

 

He is learning. That was evidenced by earning the 3rd line role, before this set back.

 

Do you really not see the difference between veterans with 557 (Kreider), 280 (Buch), 525 (Strome) games played and a rookie with 41 (Gauthier)?

 

Of course I see the difference, but the question is what are the Rangers trying to do here? Are they trying to win games or develop players? Because in my eyes they're currently treating the situation like they're a playoff team. A playoff team has no time for mistakes. They bench players who make mistakes which cause them to lose games because they need every win. Rangers are not that. They're a .500 team. Everyone has seen that since the beginning. Even JD alluded to it this past summer. I mean, in a game where they have 7 shots on goal through half the game and are getting fucking killed by the other team they have their youngest players getting no ice time - as what? Punishment?

 

And to Pete's point, the two names mentioned are 1st round picks in recent years. Andersson in particular is the Rangers own #7OA. This is a point that's been made ad nauseum by now so I won't dig in here, but you have to wonder at some point, when are these highly drafted prospects going to make an impact? And since so far none of them are, are the Rangers actually developing them properly? As of now, they're 0-1 (in reference to Andersson). Luckily for them, they've got 3 more chances to make it right.

[BrooksBurner]

Well, the game 3/15 is when he was living in the box...

 

11:24

12:10

13:56

12:59

09:38

11:22

15:23

11:25

 

He was getting solid minutes on the third line. His 'one bad game with penalties' directly resulted in them loosing the game. He was punished. He's back in. He's working to earn back the coach's trust and his role. It's almost like they are trying to teach him what he has to do to be an effective NHL player. Kinda like development.

 

The recurring penalty thing has been debunked. A game with bad penalties is a crime committed at one point or another by every one on the team. Gauthier got singled out to remove from the lineup for a week and take away all of his ice time. You just never know who Quinn has a disdain for behind closed doors. Maybe Gauthier doesn't like IHOP. Who knows.

 

Fun fact: Gauthier is 8th amongst forwards on the team in points/60, yet gets the least amount of minutes/game by a country mile. He produces more than PDG, Lafreniere, Kakko, Howden, Rooney, and Lemieux when he was here. They might want to think about letting him play more and work through the warts and lumps to see if he can develop and learn.

[Long live the King]

Of course I see the difference, but the question is what are the Rangers trying to do here? Are they trying to win games or develop players? Because in my eyes they're currently treating the situation like they're a playoff team. A playoff team has no time for mistakes. They bench players who make mistakes which cause them to lose games because they need every win. Rangers are not that. They're a .500 team. Everyone has seen that since the beginning. Even JD alluded to it this past summer. I mean, in a game where they have 7 shots on goal through half the game and are getting fucking killed by the other team they have their youngest players getting no ice time - as what? Punishment?

 

And to Pete's point, the two names mentioned are 1st round picks in recent years. Andersson in particular is the Rangers own #7OA. This is a point that's been made ad nauseum by now so I won't dig in here, but you have to wonder at some point, when are these highly drafted prospects going to make an impact? And since so far none of them are, are the Rangers actually developing them properly? So far they're 0-1 (in reference to Andersson). They've got 3 more chances to make it right.

 

No matter what way you try to slice it (win games or develop players) the pecking order for top 9 wings is currently:

 

Panarin

Buch

Kreider

Kakko

Laf

Gauthier

Kravtsov

 

Once Kravtsov gets in Gauthier may never play here again unless Buch gets traded.

 

For reference Ottawa is hot garbage and Stutzle is still 7th in TOI among their forwards with nearly 3 minutes of PP time a night. Laf and Kakko are 6th and 7th here, with half the PP time.

[Long live the King]

The recurring penalty thing has been debunked. A game with bad penalties is a crime committed at one point or another by every one on the team. Gauthier got singled out to remove from the lineup for a week and take away all of his ice time. You just never know who Quinn has a disdain for behind closed doors. Maybe Gauthier doesn't like IHOP. Who knows.

 

Fun fact: Gauthier is 8th amongst forwards on the team in points/60, yet gets the least amount of minutes/game by a country mile. He produces more than PDG, Lafreniere, Kakko, Howden, Rooney, and Lemieux when he was here. They might want to think about letting him play more and work through the warts and lumps to see if he can develop and learn.

 

And he scored 5 of those points in the 9 games we've talked about where he was solidly on the 3rd line averaging over 12 minutes per game. He got benched. He's back in. It's not the end of the world here.

[Pete]

The recurring penalty thing has been debunked. A game with bad penalties is a crime committed at one point or another by every one on the team. Gauthier got singled out to remove from the lineup for a week and take away all of his ice time. You just never know who Quinn has a disdain for behind closed doors. Maybe Gauthier doesn't like IHOP. Who knows.

 

Fun fact: Gauthier is 8th amongst forwards on the team in points/60, yet gets the least amount of minutes/game by a country mile. He produces more than PDG, Lafreniere, Kakko, Howden, Rooney, and Lemieux when he was here. They might want to think about letting him play more and work through the warts and lumps to see if he can develop and learn.

 

Points/60 is a pointless stat unless you're comparing peers. The 7 forwards above Gauthier are not all his peers.

 

You have to compare him against bottom 6 forwards, and he's right there with PDG (1.88 to 1.87) and just above Rooney (1.34) The only players he's markedly better than are Howden and Kakko.

 

Of course his p/60 will likely go down much further if you played him at the ice time or in the role of anyone else on the list above him, because he's just not that good.

 

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=scoringRates&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20202021&seasonTo=20202021&gameType=2&position=F&playerPlayedFor=franchise.10&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=pointsPer605v5&page=0&pageSize=50

[BrooksBurner]

Points/60 is a pointless stat unless you're comparing peers. The 7 forwards above Gauthier are not all his peers.

 

You have to compare him against bottom 6 forwards, and he's right there with PDG (1.88 to 1.87) and just above Rooney (1.34) The only players he's markedly better than are Howden and Kakko.

 

Of course his p/60 will likely go down much further if you played him at the ice time or in the role of anyone else on the list above him, because he's just not that good.

 

http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=scoringRates&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20202021&seasonTo=20202021&gameType=2&position=F&playerPlayedFor=franchise.10&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=pointsPer605v5&page=0&pageSize=50

 

It's pointless if the sample size is too small. Case in point: see Reunanen. It is not a pointless stat when there are enough games and total ice time to establish a trendline.

[Pete]

It's pointless if the sample size is too small. Case in point: see Reunanen. It is not a pointless stat when there are enough games and total ice time to establish a trendline.

 

It's pointless to compare Buchnevich and Gauthier in a p/60 capacity even if they both played the same # of games. They play different roles, with different linemates, with different expectations, against different quality of player.

[BrooksBurner]

It's pointless to compare Buchnevich and Gauthier in a p/60 capacity even if they both played the same # of games. They play different roles, with different linemates, with different expectations, against different quality of player.

 

Ok. I'll revise my statement to say Gauthier has the highest points per 60 amongst his peers. How does that read? You are arguing to argue. Fact is, he has been productive and put up points in limited time.

[Pete]

Ok. I'll revise my statement to say Gauthier has the highest points per 60 amongst his peers. How does that read? You are arguing to argue. Fact is, he has been productive and put up points in limited time.

His p/60 is barely higher than his peers, is the point.

 

When comparing PDG, Gauthier, and Blackwell, while Gauthier has some advantages, almost every stat (boxcar and advanced) say that the team is better with Blackwell or PDG over Goats.

 

Goats only has youth on his side.

[The Dude]

If he only had the first penalty and then said to himself, "Shit, I gotta stop reaching and move my feet. I need to keep my stick down." he'd likely have been fine.

 

He is learning. That was evidenced by earning the 3rd line role, before this set back.

 

Do you really not see the difference between veterans with 557 (Kreider), 280 (Buch), 525 (Strome) games played and a rookie with 41 (Gauthier)?

 

I'm guessing you didn't see the one being called inadvertent. I believe he was tripped or was falling and his stick slid up along the opponents stick as he fell/was tripped.

 

I believe he had a goal that gave them the lead in that game before the amazing PK gave up the tying and winning goals. .

[Pete]

I'm guessing you didn't see the one being called inadvertent. I believe he was tripped or was falling and his stick slid up along the opponents stick as he fell/was tripped.

 

I believe he had a goal that gave them the lead in that game before the amazing PK gave up the tying and winning goals. .

PK has been a bright spot all year, makes sense that we would try to shred them because they couldn't cover up for a marginal fourth liner.

[LindG1000]

His p/60 is barely higher than his peers, is the point.

 

When comparing PDG, Gauthier, and Blackwell, while Gauthier has some advantages, almost every stat (boxcar and advanced) say that the team is better with Blackwell or PDG over Goats.

 

Goats only has youth on his side.

 

Honestly, Gauthier is a victim of circumstance more than anything. He's not better than Buch. He does not have the potential that Kravtsov or Kakko have. He doesn't defend well enough to push Blackwell or PDG off.

 

He's one of the players we're going to deal who will be a perfectly fine third liner on a decent team.

[Pete]

Honestly, Gauthier is a victim of circumstance more than anything. He's not better than Buch. He does not have the potential that Kravtsov or Kakko have. He doesn't defend well enough to push Blackwell or PDG off.

 

He's one of the players we're going to deal who will be a perfectly fine third liner on a decent team.

 

I mean he isn't bad, but he's certainly not good enough to question why he's played in 25 of 35 games. He's not getting screwed, by any means.

[Phil]

Yes, the Rangers wanted to clear space on the roster and yes, the Rangers wanted to clear space under the cap.

 

But The Post has learned that in dealing Brendan Lemieux to the Kings for a fourth-round draft choice last Saturday, the Rangers were also accommodating a request by the left winger’s camp that he be moved to a team on which he might gain a more meaningful role.

 

“It’s going to give Pepe an opportunity to maybe play in a little bit more of a role that he’s looking for,” said David Quinn, whose team is facing the Sabres in Buffalo on Thursday. “He was a good player for us and we’re going to miss him.”

 

The coach used the player’s nickname that he had inherited from his father, Claude, who is also his agent and who communicated the trade request to general manager Jeff Gorton.

 

That is believed to have accelerated the trade process even though the team could have attempted to bid him up with the April 12 trade deadline approaching.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/04/01/brendan-lemieux-requested-trade-before-rangers-dealt-him-to-kings/

[LindG1000]

I mean he isn't bad, but he's certainly not good enough to question why he's played in 25 of 35 games. He's not getting screwed, by any means.

 

No, not at all - we know exactly why he's getting short ice time and scratches. He's good enough to play third line minutes in the NHL in the not terribly distant future.

 

I do think he's being held back by our wealth of wing options, but I don't think a world where Gauthier gets 14 minutes a night without worrying about the scratch is light years better. It's decidedly serviceable.

[Drew a Penalty]

https://nypost.com/2021/04/01/brendan-lemieux-requested-trade-before-rangers-dealt-him-to-kings/

 

For a guy who really isn't any good, he keeps requesting out of teams. At some point, he's got to realize he is what he is.