CBrowningPI Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Maybe Lundqvist doesn't seem as good because the team in front of him isn't as good? Over the last three seasons, Lundqvist has faced the highest shots faced per game in his career. This season he faced 32.3 per game. The highest he's ever faced in his career. The second most he's faced was 29.9 per game in 2015-16. Compare those to a career average of 28.6. The team defense has been considerably worse.32 shots per game is league average. 14 out of 28 wins Hank had were to teams that didn't make the playoffs, a couple did but barely. The excuses are legion. I could write pages and pages of suck, just as people can write pages of praise. My opinion I realize is not popular but there are many true blue fans who feel as I do. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 How can any fan who watched him play the last two seasons think he's good? As I've stated before, Raanta put up incredible numbers with a much worse defense. Nobody has any interest in taking old king paycheck. We're stuck with this Swedish nightmare, for what, 3 more years. We need our Russian Czar asap. Buy out his last year, along with his comrade Kravt. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk How can any fan that’s watched the team the last 2 years blame the goalie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletch Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 lundqvist might go to a sc contender and waive his nmc, but those teams are fine in net. he appears satisfied in ny, so even if he had the opportunity to go to a contender it does not seem like he would want to go. pretty unlikely there is a team willing to take him where he would agree to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 How is that league average? Over the last three seasons Lundqvist has faced the second most shots against in the league. The only goaltender to face more is Cam Talbot. Facing 171 more shots in 11 more games played. Devan Dubnyk is the third goaltender but has faced 190 fewer shots in 7 more games played than Lundqvist. Tell me how that's league average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 The King is one of the most remarkable mental specimens that I have seen in watching the Rangers for 50 years. Some of that rubs off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty9 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 I'm not slating Henrik. I'm merely saying I don't think he's better than those goalies. Certainly not anywhere near enough of an upgrade to make them consider smashing their wage structure to trade for him. As for your points, Holtby: Lost his place, then came back after 2 games and was absolutely instrumental in winning the Stanley Cup Fleury: Was incredible literally throughout the season. I dont think it's true Rinne and Hellebuyck were bad in the playoffs, although they both had iffy performances in key moments. If I'm Tampa, Nashville, Washington, Winnipeg or Las Vegas I'm not even thinking about trading for Hank.I still take Hank over those other goalies , the only reason they don't have him is because they can't afford him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Why can?t there be a middle ground here? Why can?t the fan appreciate and marvel at his career but also realize that his presence on the team is counter to the direction of the team? My opinion is if hank wants to stay then by all means he should be welcomed and celebrated. Him staying can have zero influence in roster decisions and that should be understood by him from day 1. I also believe he has no choice because his contract is untradeable. As of today hank is an average nhl goalie. He certainly is not the reason for the teams problems but he is not what he once was. He was that for a consistent decade and that is remarkable. Give him his due. It?s his choice what happens to him he?s earned that. But do not make the mistake of thinking this is the hank of five years ago. Most of his prime was played behind a team that was conservative to a fault by most fans view. His best years were played when the entire team blocked everything possible. Those years are all credited to him while the no structure years of av leave him blameless. Can he be something in between? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 How can any fan that’s watched the team the last 2 years blame the goalie? That's not quite fair. Hank has been pretty inconsistent in his own right. The team has been really bad and it's not all Hank's fault but he certainly hasn't been very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 How is that league average? Over the last three seasons Lundqvist has faced the second most shots against in the league. The only goaltender to face more is Cam Talbot. Facing 171 more shots in 11 more games played. Devan Dubnyk is the third goaltender but has faced 190 fewer shots in 7 more games played than Lundqvist. Tell me how that's league average. Stop making sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Stop making senseNHL Network talked about how the league is shooting more. That 28. whatever is from 2 years ago. They stated that the league average has gone up to 31-32 shots per game. Even if it was 29 to 32 for Hank does that mean he can't handle 3 more shots per game? Please. He even stated that he likes to be more active in games. Look at his splits. When he gets into the low 20 shots he often loses those games. How many games do we have to cringe at the first shot? How many times does he have to crush the will of the team by going down 2-0 on softies? He's made himself a joke to our rivals. But of course he'll blame the closest defenseman for his inability. Just shoot high and score. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 NHL Network talked about how the league is shooting more. That 28. whatever is from 2 years ago. They stated that the league average has gone up to 31-32 shots per game. Even if it was 29 to 32 for Hank does that mean he can't handle 3 more shots per game? Please. He even stated that he likes to be more active in games. Look at his splits. When he gets into the low 20 shots he often loses those games. How many games do we have to cringe at the first shot? How many times does he have to crush the will of the team by going down 2-0 on softies? He's made himself a joke to our rivals. But of course he'll blame the closest defenseman for his inability. Just shoot high and score. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by TapatalkA joke to our rivals? The Isles were icing Halak and Greiss and Schneider lost his job to Kinkaid. Wtf are we talking about here....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Current statistics literally tell you how many shots he's facing and that it's that much more than everyone else. You're refusing to believe that because that's what NHL Network says. Go to NHL.com. Look at the stats. Do the math to figure out the more complicated numbers if it pleases. Everything says that he has his work cut out for him. If you can find me a statistic on softies I'd be happy to consider it. The fact of the matter is, Lundqvist is winning more games for this team than he's losing them. That's been the case and that's always been the case. You can look up how he performs in terms of shot danger statistics. Where Lundqvist currently struggles statistically is with mid danger shots, meaning shots from the slot. Maybe that's telling of the Rangers needing to defend a little bit better. You don't know what you've got until it's gone I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Shots faced is not always a true representation of a goalie's workload. High danger scoring chances against is much more indicative of what a goalie has to face night in and night out. Just by watching the games you shouldn't even need to look up these stats to know how terrible the Rangers defense has been the last few years. They have left Hank out to dry on an almost nightly basis. But here....the Rangers have been in the bottom 3 for 5v5 high danger scoring chances allowed since AV got here (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php). The last 3 years (HDCA): 2015-2016: worst in the league 2016-2017: 3rd worst (Ari/NYI worse) 2017-2018: 2nd worst (NYI worse) Good company we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 And how was this not an av problem? How do his defenders justify defensive numbers like these. Most here hated torts for his style which is structure to a fault. He’d even bench stars for not staying in line with that structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 NHL Network talked about how the league is shooting more. That 28. whatever is from 2 years ago. They stated that the league average has gone up to 31-32 shots per game. Even if it was 29 to 32 for Hank does that mean he can't handle 3 more shots per game? Please. He even stated that he likes to be more active in games. Look at his splits. When he gets into the low 20 shots he often loses those games. How many games do we have to cringe at the first shot? How many times does he have to crush the will of the team by going down 2-0 on softies? He's made himself a joke to our rivals. But of course he'll blame the closest defenseman for his inability. Just shoot high and score. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 YawnTypical Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 That's not quite fair. Hank has been pretty inconsistent in his own right. The team has been really bad and it's not all Hank's fault but he certainly hasn't been very good. Gee, I thought I took it easy on him, based on his rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Lothbrok Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 BIG qualifying statement here: I'm not overly familiar with how the stats corroborate or refute this assertion. But, I will say this: we always like to talk on here about the "eye test," and the change in Hank's style over the years is palpable. Once upon a time his big claim to fame was his poise, positioning and economical movement. He made every save look easy. One crisp, clean move to go butterfly and make the stop. I don't think I saw him throw a two-pad stack in his first 7-8 years in the league. Nowadays, however, he works A LOT harder to make the save. A lot of twitchy, flailing movement. A lot of diving, sprawling, and a general overall lesser lack of control. Every save looks difficult. I don't know, maybe as his reaction has naturally slowed he went buck-wild with getting in tip-top shape so that he could compensate with all athleticism. He still makes the difficult save (mostly) but he no longer looks comfortable doing it. He used to control the shot, now he reacts to it almost belatedly. I'm not sure how else to describe it; I can't really put my finger on it. Maybe more goaltending theory-savvy people can weigh in and (dis)agree. But just on personal observation, he looks way less in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Head Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 How is that league average? Over the last three seasons Lundqvist has faced the second most shots against in the league. The only goaltender to face more is Cam Talbot. Facing 171 more shots in 11 more games played. Devan Dubnyk is the third goaltender but has faced 190 fewer shots in 7 more games played than Lundqvist. Tell me how that's league average. Total shots don?t tell the story compared to shots per game. Anybody have that info? I really don?t know what they are Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Total shots don’t tell the story compared to shots per game. Anybody have that info? I really don’t know what they are Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Read a couple posts before, Jay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Current statistics literally tell you how many shots he's facing and that it's that much more than everyone else. You're refusing to believe that because that's what NHL Network says. Go to NHL.com. Look at the stats. Do the math to figure out the more complicated numbers if it pleases. Everything says that he has his work cut out for him. If you can find me a statistic on softies I'd be happy to consider it. The fact of the matter is, Lundqvist is winning more games for this team than he's losing them. That's been the case and that's always been the case. You can look up how he performs in terms of shot danger statistics. Where Lundqvist currently struggles statistically is with mid danger shots, meaning shots from the slot. Maybe that's telling of the Rangers needing to defend a little bit better. You don't know what you've got until it's gone I guess.We must not forget that he is THE highest paid goaltender in the World. You cannot say we're getting are money's worth. Arizona certainly can. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 We must not forget that he is THE highest paid goaltender in the World. You cannot say we're getting are money's worth. Arizona certainly can. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk AAV? Incorrect. That title belongs to Carey Price. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karan Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Play him 40 games and let him get some rest. The real work starts 2019-20 season. I'm an advocate for this as well. A semi-sabbatical and then come back strong in 2019-2020 for a competitive playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 AAV? Incorrect. That title belongs to Carey Price. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by TapatalkI didn't know that. Ok, 2nd? Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respecttheblue Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 No he certainly does not. He isn't better than Rinne, Hellebuyck, Vasilevsky, Holtby or Fleury. Whether he's an upgrade on Murray is debatable. In the 2nd tier of contenders he isn't better than Quick and Jones. Might be an upgrade on Rask and as you say Andersson. Vasilevsky looked like Tampa?s Achilles heel in the playoffs to me. Good fit, IMO, but they already took on a lot of expensive Rangers. I doubt they have space. Hank is staying here appears to be the forecast until his personal weather changes and/or some team has ample space and need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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