Gravesy Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Vasilevsky looked like Tampa?s Achilles heel in the playoffs to me. I don't think that's accurate. He was excellent against the Bruins and was instrumental in their 3 wins against the Caps when they were outplayed, at times comprehensively, and still came out with the win. Without him it's doubtful they see a game 7 in that series. He then let himself down a bit in game 7, which easily becomes the lasting image. Either way, I agree with your conclusion. He's almost impossible to move and will be staying put because any real contender don't need him enough to smash their wage structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I don't need an advanced stat to tell me it's not possible to say someone like Rinne is better than someone like Hank when you see the teams they are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 While I was at Spotrac I noticed it said Rangers sign 1yr deal with Steven Fogarty at $708,000. On 7/4/18. Not big news but it was the first I've heard it. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 There's a thread on it in the In the System section. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Rinne and Hellebuyck were both bad in the playoffs, Vasilevsky was pedestrian when the defense fell apart late in the year, Holtby lost his job as a starter, and Fleury was streaky in the playoffs as he's always done. Henrik maybe isn't a clear upgrade, but I'd take him over any of those guys. Frederick ANDERSEN is maybe the one goalie in the league that Henrik isn't an upgrade on. I don't understand how, when discussing Henrik, people forget the absolute sieve of a defense that has been in front of him. Give Henrik the Caps structure and watch him win the Vezina. No goalie has a chance the way the Rangers have defended the last couple of years, and the fact that his numbers are even decent is a testament to just how outstanding he really is. Like, if a Rangers fan has to pick a goalie to win one game, tomorrow, how could the fan pick anyone other than Henrik after watching the last decade? It's just baffling to me. Agreed. I still don't get how people shit on Lundqvist. I can't think of a season in which he didn't carry this team. He did have a stinker of a start the season before last if I remember correctly, but he always bounced back. I really feel bad for the guy, and I love how much he wants to stay in NY. If only the CBA allowed players to restructure their contracts. I think Lundqvist would have done so to help the team possibly sign a free agent, or make a trade. Guys fucking great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 There's a thread on it in the In the System section. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by TapatalkThx Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Agreed. I still don't get how people shit on Lundqvist. I can't think of a season in which he didn't carry this team. He did have a stinker of a start the season before last if I remember correctly, but he always bounced back. I really feel bad for the guy, and I love how much he wants to stay in NY. If only the CBA allowed players to restructure their contracts. I think Lundqvist would have done so to help the team possibly sign a free agent, or make a trade. Guys fucking great. Nobody's shitting on him for fucks sake. Apart from this Browning guy I suppose. I mean I'm only saying that, in my opinion, he's not an upgrade on the Stanley Cup winning goaltender and the Vezina candidates for this season. It's hardly saying the guy is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 How can any fan who watched him play the last two seasons think he's good? As I've stated before, Raanta put up incredible numbers with a much worse defense. Nobody has any interest in taking old king paycheck. We're stuck with this Swedish nightmare, for what, 3 more years. We need our Russian Czar asap. Buy out his last year, along with his comrade Kravt. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Boy. How soon some fans forget. Forget that this guy carried the NYR for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Nobody's shitting on him for fucks sake. Apart from this Browning guy I suppose. I mean I'm only saying that, in my opinion, he's not an upgrade on the Stanley Cup winning goaltender and the Vezina candidates for this season. It's hardly saying the guy is done. Fans here have been " s ******g " on him for at least 3 years. It's really revolting considering what he has meant to this team and where they'd be had he not signed here as a 7th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Answer to the thread title: Play him!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Shots faced is not always a true representation of a goalie's workload. High danger scoring chances against is much more indicative of what a goalie has to face night in and night out. Just by watching the games you shouldn't even need to look up these stats to know how terrible the Rangers defense has been the last few years. They have left Hank out to dry on an almost nightly basis. But here....the Rangers have been in the bottom 3 for 5v5 high danger scoring chances allowed since AV got here (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php). The last 3 years (HDCA): 2015-2016: worst in the league 2016-2017: 3rd worst (Ari/NYI worse) 2017-2018: 2nd worst (NYI worse) Good company we have. Good post, beat me to it. Shot volume isn't as important as dangerous shot volume, and the Rangers have been atrocious there. The fact that Hank's numbers are even middle of the pack means he's playing really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 BIG qualifying statement here: I'm not overly familiar with how the stats corroborate or refute this assertion. But, I will say this: we always like to talk on here about the "eye test," and the change in Hank's style over the years is palpable. Once upon a time his big claim to fame was his poise, positioning and economical movement. He made every save look easy. One crisp, clean move to go butterfly and make the stop. I don't think I saw him throw a two-pad stack in his first 7-8 years in the league. Nowadays, however, he works A LOT harder to make the save. A lot of twitchy, flailing movement. A lot of diving, sprawling, and a general overall lesser lack of control. Every save looks difficult. I don't know, maybe as his reaction has naturally slowed he went buck-wild with getting in tip-top shape so that he could compensate with all athleticism. He still makes the difficult save (mostly) but he no longer looks comfortable doing it. He used to control the shot, now he reacts to it almost belatedly. I'm not sure how else to describe it; I can't really put my finger on it. Maybe more goaltending theory-savvy people can weigh in and (dis)agree. But just on personal observation, he looks way less in control. He has to scramble a lot more because the defense in front of him is so much worse. There's no structure, so he can't anticipate anything, and that makes him way more reactive, so his positioning gets off. I will say that, at times, he gets a little bit antsy and that's on him, but it's a product of him having no trust in the defense in front of him. It's kind of like a quarterback who takes a bunch of hits early in his career, and then feels pressure when it's not there. He has to anticipate cross-ice passes, high danger chances in the slot, and guys in front being totally uncontested so he cheats them even when those plays don't happen. His fundamentals sometimes fall apart when he does that, and some of the softies go in. Much of that would be fixed with any type of consistent defensive structure. Last year showed that he can still be a 60-game, elite goaltender, and he hasn't broken down with age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 I'm very curious to see how this all plays out over the season. I think Hank still has a couple of seasons of good play in him. Some of you guys have some pretty solid points too. I kinda figured that contract is going to be a lot to get around as far as dealing him, but I really would like to see the guy give it a shot at winning a cup...even if it is on another team. I simply don't think the Rangers are going to be a viable contender for at least 3 years, and I just don't see him as "our guy" 3 years down the pike. But how does that 2nd rounder, Lindbom fit in here? He has some pretty good upside from the numbers and reports I've read. Knowing this franchise, we'll probably deal the kid away and he'll turn into fucking Pelle Lindbergh reincarnated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 But how does that 2nd rounder, Lindbom fit in here? He has some pretty good upside from the numbers and reports I've read. Knowing this franchise, we'll probably deal the kid away and he'll turn into fucking Pelle Lindbergh reincarnated. Lindbom is irrelevant to the Blueshirts' roster until probably 2022 at the earliest. He's 17 years old, and it might be 10 years before we know if he's a legit NHL goalie. Cam Talbot didn't start an NHL game until he was 26, Raanta was 24. Granted, you can probably expect Lindbom to be ready before them with his draft status, but he's a long, long way off. With the goalie prospects the Rangers have, they could move him, but I doubt it. Prospect goalies don't have much value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddious Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Never hurts to have promising goalies in the system. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Nobody's shitting on him for fucks sake. Apart from this Browning guy I suppose. I mean I'm only saying that, in my opinion, he's not an upgrade on the Stanley Cup winning goaltender and the Vezina candidates for this season. It's hardly saying the guy is done. He's definitely an upgrade on those teams. Just not worth replacing their current goalies with him, due to it being a waste of assets to trade for and to get rid of it sit in their current goalies. He's no doubt still a top 5 goalie in this league. My post wasn't directed to you, but more or less a group of people here as well as through out Rangers fandom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Gotcha. Let's agree to disagree on the upgrade bit. I don't think he would be, but he could still definitely be an asset to a team making a run for the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Head Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Good post, beat me to it. Shot volume isn't as important as dangerous shot volume, and the Rangers have been atrocious there. The fact that Hank's numbers are even middle of the pack means he's playing really well. Well....he?s not middle of the pack anymore When we had structure under torts Hank excelled, since then he?s fallen off. Statistically he was one of the worst starters in the league, and your stats of danger give a good reason Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Well....he’s not middle of the pack anymore When we had structure under torts Hank excelled, since then he’s fallen off. Statistically he was one of the worst starters in the league, and your stats of danger give a good reason Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Of the 42 goalies who started at least 30 games, he was 19th in sv%. That's pretty squarely middle of the pack lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 Lindbom is irrelevant to the Blueshirts' roster until probably 2022 at the earliest. He's 17 years old, and it might be 10 years before we know if he's a legit NHL goalie. Cam Talbot didn't start an NHL game until he was 26, Raanta was 24. Granted, you can probably expect Lindbom to be ready before them with his draft status, but he's a long, long way off. With the goalie prospects the Rangers have, they could move him, but I doubt it. Prospect goalies don't have much value. The funny thing Future, is that I keep getting this eerie feeling that Hank is going to have one of those years where he stands on his head and makes this team look way better than they are this season. He'll make the All Star team, and at the same time keep us out of the top 5 picks for 2019. It just seems fitting!! =) I can SOOOO see that happening!!! LOL .....Especially with a new coach that has a solid type of defensive structure that supports defensemen a lot more. Yup, he's gonna have a "return to greatness" kind of year!! I think I'm gonna put Hank in the Brendan Smith boat on that comeback performer of the year!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 The funny thing Future, is that I keep getting this eerie feeling that Hank is going to have one of those years where he stands on his head and makes this team look way better than they are this season. He'll make the All Star team, and at the same time keep us out of the top 5 picks for 2019. It just seems fitting!! =) I can SOOOO see that happening!!! LOL .....Especially with a new coach that has a solid type of defensive structure that supports defensemen a lot more. Yup, he's gonna have a "return to greatness" kind of year!! I think I'm gonna put Hank in the Brendan Smith boat on that comeback performer of the year!!! Well I mean he did that this year for like 30 games lol. He is still perfectly capable of carrying a team to the playoffs if the defensive structure in front of him is sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 I totally admire his unbelievable loyalty to this franchise but Jesus man, I wish we could get him a good chance at a Cup! The guy totally deserves it! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Apart from this Browning guy? So on this Forum you can shit on players as long as it's not Hank ? This Browning guy would love it if Hank played at an elite level. Hockey is my game. Rangers are my team. I mowed the lawn during the Super Bowl because I really don't care much for other sports. To call me out as this guy, sounds like I am not in the been posting here for 5 yrs club, so my opinion doesn't carry any weight. Don't get me wrong, I'm not butthurt over it, I've just noticed a patronizing overtone by more then a few. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 it pretty much means your accepted into the club. If not, people wouldnt call you out. Theyd just ignore you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Apart from this Browning guy? So on this Forum you can shit on players as long as it's not Hank ? This Browning guy would love it if Hank played at an elite level. Hockey is my game. Rangers are my team. I mowed the lawn during the Super Bowl because I really don't care much for other sports. To call me out as this guy, sounds like I am not in the been posting here for 5 yrs club, so my opinion doesn't carry any weight. Don't get me wrong, I'm not butthurt over it, I've just noticed a patronizing overtone by more then a few. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Sorry. Bad phrasing on my part. I just meant to say that you were the only one being negative about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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