[brooks] Doubtful Spooner is in Rangers' Long-Term Plans

[Pete]

I think there's a good chance we over-valued McD.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Too many miles on McD

[NYR2711]

I think there's a good chance we over-valued McD.

 

I agree, he hasn't really done anything in Tampa either since the trade.

[Ranger Lothbrok]

McDonagh was hurt when we traded him and had been trending downward steadily for three seasons. We definitely overvalued him. Just because you're the cream of the crop when that crop consists of a trash heap doesn't mean you're worth that to another team. McDonagh was a big fish in a small pond, and on any contender he's a big fish in an ocean filled with sharks.

 

That said, I disliked trading Miller when we did, and I dislike it even more now. He wasn't "part of the problem," to me at least. He could've been part of the solution. JG wants to address toughness but trades the only forward other than McLeod willing to get his nose dirty? Yeah, makes sense.

 

Until those locker room malcontent stories are substantiated, trading Miller was, still is and will be a bad move. Especially if the deal was in place without him and we tacked him on to get Namestnikov. That's even worse.

 

All of this being said, don't sleep on Hajek. He has the ability to be as good, if not better, than Mac ever was.

[Giacomin]

All of this being said, don't sleep on Hajek. He has the ability to be as good, if not better, than Mac ever was.

 

Well that would change everything. Wish I had that level of confidence. McD before the miles and injuries was a legit #1.

 

Looking forward to seeing Hajek in Hartford. Howden, as well.

[Respecttheblue]

McDonagh was hurt when we traded him and had been trending downward steadily for three seasons. We definitely overvalued him. Just because you're the cream of the crop when that crop consists of a trash heap doesn't mean you're worth that to another team. McDonagh was a big fish in a small pond, and on any contender he's a big fish in an ocean filled with sharks.

 

That said, I disliked trading Miller when we did, and I dislike it even more now. He wasn't "part of the problem," to me at least. He could've been part of the solution. JG wants to address toughness but trades the only forward other than McLeod willing to get his nose dirty? Yeah, makes sense.

 

Until those locker room malcontent stories are substantiated, trading Miller was, still is and will be a bad move. Especially if the deal was in place without him and we tacked him on to get Namestnikov. That's even worse.

 

All of this being said, don't sleep on Hajek. He has the ability to be as good, if not better, than Mac ever was.

 

 

Love this post.

 

I sure hope it was not Alain Vigneault's unhappiness with Miller that brought about the trade.

I fugure they know something about him we don't, but that still doesn't stop me being pissed off about trading Miller, a hard nosed skill player, when we are a squad increasingly devoid of grit among the top-9 forwards. That said, I did not see much of the last Tampa series, so I have not seen much of how he has been playing in general, aside from an offensive highlight here or there.

[Respecttheblue]

Well that would change everything. Wish I had that level of confidence. McD before the miles and injuries was a legit #1.

 

Looking forward to seeing Hajek in Hartford. Howden, as well.

 

Definitely looking forward to seeing those two and Yegor Whatsisname as well.

Hoping we also get Shestyorkin worked into the team G platoon sometime soon, although part time duty may not be enough, so I guess I gotta be patient.

[josh]

Love this post.

 

I sure hope it was not Alain Vigneault's unhappiness with Miller that brought about the trade.

I fugure they know something about him we don't, but that still doesn't stop me being pissed off about trading Miller, a hard nosed skill player, when we are a squad increasingly devoid of grit among the top-9 forwards. That said, I did not see much of the last Tampa series, so I have not seen much of how he has been playing in general, aside from an offensive highlight here or there.

 

Miller was the epitome of the AV era.

A guy that could do everything, yet tried to do nothing.

 

 

And there is no chance AV had any say in the trades made at the deadline.

[Giacomin]

Definitely looking forward to seeing those two and Yegor Whatsisname as well.

Hoping we also get Shestyorkin worked into the team G platoon sometime soon, although part time duty may not be enough, so I guess I gotta be patient.

 

Call him Shesty and let him know he already has a nickname in NY. Yes, be patient, he has another year left in the KHL.

[Fatfrancesa]

The problem isn’t trading miller it’s the seemingly rush to trade him for what seems to be an underwhelming return. There is no reason why they couldn’t move him at the draft or this summer. People are speaking of what it would take to move up in the draft. I would think miller and the 9 would be enticing. To me that’s is a better return than Namestikov.

[Giacomin]

The problem isn’t trading miller it’s the seemingly rush to trade him for what seems to be an underwhelming return. There is no reason why they couldn’t move him at the draft or this summer. People are speaking of what it would take to move up in the draft. I would think miller and the 9 would be enticing. To me that’s is a better return than Namestikov.

 

^ That's it in a nutshell.

 

It's obvious Mike had good info on this and the Rangers had decided to trade him. It seems one of two things happened based on listening to Yzerman and Gorton (among other involved) in interviews. Yzerman said, Gorton brought up JT well into the McD talks. Gorton responded in his presser that Yzerman had shown interest in JT, in the past.

 

1. The team was in such a hurry to get him moved that they pushed to include him into the McD deal. It is easy to assume there were plenty of assets they wanted from Tampa and JT would increase the return.

 

2. Or it was more specific. Very possible Gorton and Co wanted a particular asset or two and Yzerman was driving a hard bargain. Yzerman had interest in JT, so Gorton introduces JT into the equation thinking he will make a big difference. I speculate (based on things said afterwards) that Yzerman was very resistant on both Hajek and Foote. The inclusion of JT may have been necessary to get Hajek. They also needed to get an experienced forward back to trade Names. Thus, the Rangers obviously saw a bit of value in Names.

 

Fatty, my problem is patience and strategic vision. Jt would have been a helluva a chip in the off season. More teams would be interested and bidding. He wasn't a pending UFA. However, I can see where the Rangers felt they were getting value by adding him to the deal. and moving the rebuild forward with expediency.

[Giacomin]

Essentially, it is hard to determine how underwhelming the return is unless we know what the deal would have looked like with just McD. Obviously JT allowed Tampa to trade Names, but I'd guess there was something else. Maybe Hajek versus a lesser valued prospect. Or the conditional pick. Who knows besides mgmt?

 

If it was what pried away Hajek and he turns into a top pair guy here, then the return becomes pretty damn good.

[Fatfrancesa]

Yeah but mcd still has a year left too. The rangers were under no circumstances stuck into having to trade either. Tampa was the one trying to improve their cup chances. If mcd on his own can’t pry Hajek then yzerman should have been told to fuck off. If Holden is worth a 3 then mcd is worth a 30-31, a conditional 2, and two b prospects. Hajek is not a slam dunk prospect at all. He’s not even top 50. So I’m sorry but there was no logical reason why they had to make a move with those two players at the deadline. I’m ok with the return for mcd as the prospect and pick line of the deal. That leaves J.T. for Namestikov. Either the whole deal sucks or The J.T. part does. End result is that much like hagelin, Talbot, and raanta the return was weak.

 

I’d be curious to what J.T. value is now? It’s hard to imagine if tampa made him available they wouldnt get a mid to late first back

[Kevin]

Yeah but mcd still has a year left too. The rangers were under no circumstances stuck into having to trade either. Tampa was the one trying to improve their cup chances. If mcd on his own can’t pry Hajek then yzerman should have been told to fuck off. If Holden is worth a 3 then mcd is worth a 30-31, a conditional 2, and two b prospects. Hajek is not a slam dunk prospect at all. He’s not even top 50. So I’m sorry but there was no logical reason why they had to make a move with those two players at the deadline. I’m ok with the return for mcd as the prospect and pick line of the deal. That leaves J.T. for Namestikov. Either the whole deal sucks or The J.T. part does. End result is that much like hagelin, Talbot, and raanta the return was weak.

 

I’d be curious to what J.T. value is now? It’s hard to imagine if tampa made him available they wouldnt get a mid to late first back

 

You're forgetting Howden, who is the better prospect in the trade. Also I think you're forgetting the whole letter and moving pieces to restart the team. They moved McD

and JT because, in part, they didn't see them as part of the core moving forward. I'm not saying they necessarily got good value in the deal but I still think it's way too early to tell for sure.

[Fatfrancesa]

You're forgetting Howden, who is the better prospect in the trade. Also I think you're forgetting the whole letter and moving pieces to restart the team. They moved McD

and JT because, in part, they didn't see them as part of the core moving forward. I'm not saying they necessarily got good value in the deal but I still think it's way too early to tell for sure.

I’m not forgetting. Hajek was the target supposedly. Also I have no problem with trading them. They just didn’t have to do it by the deadline if the deal wasn’t right. We will see. Like I already said I’m on with mcd for picks and prospects, even b prospects which they are. Miller for Namestnikov will never make sense no matter the circumstances. Miller has/ had more value then that and would have fetched more st the draft.

[Giacomin]

Yeah but mcd still has a year left too. The rangers were under no circumstances stuck into having to trade either. Tampa was the one trying to improve their cup chances. If mcd on his own can’t pry Hajek then yzerman should have been told to fuck off. If Holden is worth a 3 then mcd is worth a 30-31, a conditional 2, and two b prospects. Hajek is not a slam dunk prospect at all. He’s not even top 50. So I’m sorry but there was no logical reason why they had to make a move with those two players at the deadline. I’m ok with the return for mcd as the prospect and pick line of the deal. That leaves J.T. for Namestikov. Either the whole deal sucks or The J.T. part does. End result is that much like hagelin, Talbot, and raanta the return was weak.

 

I’d be curious to what J.T. value is now? It’s hard to imagine if tampa made him available they wouldnt get a mid to late first back

 

I'd like to respond on two levels.

 

The first, I agree the overall return was lighter than hoped. Even after I tempered my expectations (no Sergachev for instance), it feels like Yzerman did very well. Particularly once we found out JT was part of the deal.

 

That we were unable to get either Taylor Raddysh or Boris Katchouk (who was a monster in the playoffs) in that deal was shocking. We should have even given up on the condition on the 2019 pick and insisted on one of them.

 

That said, we differ on a second aspect. The McD deal needed to happen and you are underrating Hajek, Howden and getting their #1, which looks like #29 but could have been better. Neither are B prospects, don't confuse them with the scraps we got from Boston.

 

Howden, 27th overall in 2016 and has progressed nicely and appears on track to becoming a 2 or 3C in the NHL. This year he scored 75 points in 49 games, then had a strong playoff. Good leader, clutch scoring and all around game. He has raised his floor enough that it is hard to imagine him not meeting his baseline expectations.

 

Hajek went 10 picks later (37th) but is also raising his floor as he appears to be on a legit path to eventually play a solid role here. Recently turned 20, he is already 6'2" 205lbs and plays an all around role on D. Looked good in U20 and has the tools. Not a sure thing, but he has improved his value since his draft. He'll get prime minutes in Hartford, as will Howden. I expect they'll both be Ranger regulars sometime during the 2019-20 season.

[RangersIn7]

In the McDonagh deal, it’s clear that Gorton wasn’t getting the elite piece he wanted, so he opted for 4-5 above average to good pieces, hoping for 1 to emerge as great, and hopefully 1 more to at least be a player. I think he wanted Sergachev or Point and couldn’t get them. I don’t think he wanted Koekkek or Foote. So if you want to say that he maybe got jobbed or that he should not have done the deal given that he didn’t have to and didn’t get an “Oh my God” piece, that’s very fair.

 

But don’t make a final evaluation of the deal just yet. They’ve yet to do anything with either pick, we haven’t seen Hajek or Howden yet, and Namestnikov has played 20 games under a lame duck coach.

 

Be patient

[josh]

In the McDonagh deal, it?s clear that Gorton wasn?t getting the elite piece he wanted, so he opted for 4-5 above average to good pieces, hoping for 1 to emerge as great, and hopefully 1 more to at least be a player. I think he wanted Sergachev or Point and couldn?t get them. I don?t think he wanted Koekkek or Foote. So if you want to say that he maybe got jobbed or that he should not have done the deal given that he didn?t have to and didn?t get an ?Oh my God? piece, that?s very fair.

 

But don?t make a final evaluation of the deal just yet. They?ve yet to do anything with either pick, we haven?t seen Hajek or Howden yet, and Namestnikov has played 20 games under a lame duck coach.

 

Be patient

 

After the initial shock of not getting a ?big name?, it?s still a huge return. Buchnevich ?s new bff, Future top 6 center, future Stralman, a first and potentially another first for a third line winger and a defenseman that will be hurt most of next season.

 

Namestnikov speaks Russian. By all accounts, he?s a great guy,hard worker with a good personality. If we are rebuilding, take care of your assets. He will (could) help our future first line winger, our future #1 goalie, our future defenseman. Can?t underestimate that

[Scott]

After the initial shock of not getting a “big name”, it’s still a huge return. Buchnevich ‘s new bff, Future top 6 center, future Stralman, a first and potentially another first for a third line winger and a defenseman that will be hurt most of next season.

 

Namestnikov speaks Russian. By all accounts, he’s a great guy,hard worker with a good personality. If we are rebuilding, take care of your assets. He will (could) help our future first line winger, our future #1 goalie, our future defenseman. Can’t underestimate that

 

Imo, most importantly he has to prove he's good at hockey here in NY, and to me he showed very little of that. Otherwise I'm sure they can find a greeter and translator to cover all these other things that aren't worth tying up a roster spot for.

[RangersIn7]

After the initial shock of not getting a “big name”, it’s still a huge return. Buchnevich ‘s new bff, Future top 6 center, future Stralman, a first and potentially another first for a third line winger and a defenseman that will be hurt most of next season.

 

Namestnikov speaks Russian. By all accounts, he’s a great guy,hard worker with a good personality. If we are rebuilding, take care of your assets. He will (could) help our future first line winger, our future #1 goalie, our future defenseman. Can’t underestimate that

 

I appreciate your optimism and that you have a realistic view in that there is a lot of options and potential there in spite of

no clear cut elite piece

 

But let’s not start sucking each other’s dicks just yet. We’ve no proof that any of these guys are anything in a Rangers uniform as of now.

 

But I do think that they did pretty well and that it will be ok

[Pete]

Pretty clear to me that Miller's style of play works better in the playoffs (style...not production) than Names.

[Giacomin]

I appreciate your optimism and that you have a realistic view in that there is a lot of options and potential there in spite of

no clear cut elite piece

 

But let’s not start sucking each other’s dicks just yet. We’ve no proof that any of these guys are anything in a Rangers uniform as of now.

 

But I do think that they did pretty well and that it will be ok

 

Ha ha. For now we'll try to raise Fatty's expectations a little and temper Josh's.

[josh]

Pretty clear to me that Miller's style of play works better in the playoffs (style...not production) than Names.

 

Dont worry, their playoff production is similarly bad.

 

But thats irrelevant this season, next and maybe another 2.

 

Pretty clear to me that Millers... anything wasnt going to help the next set of prospects adjust to the nhl

[Kevin]

Pretty clear to me that Miller's style of play works better in the playoffs (style...not production) than Names.

 

I hate to pile on Names but his style definitely doesn't seem conducive to the playoffs. From what we saw in a small, somewhat tainted, portion I'm not even 100% sure his game is conducive to the NHL with us. I'm going to withhold final judgement on him until about January though...if I can be that patient.

[Kevin]

I?m not forgetting. Hajek was the target supposedly. Also I have no problem with trading them. They just didn?t have to do it by the deadline if the deal wasn?t right. We will see. Like I already said I?m on with mcd for picks and prospects, even b prospects which they are. Miller for Namestnikov will never make sense no matter the circumstances. Miller has/ had more value then that and would have fetched more st the draft.

 

I'll let Gorton fail on a couple of these deals before I start judging the prospects before we even see them. I'm hoping that he, or some of his trusted scouts, saw something in them that they really thought would make them key cogs. I'm not sure what grading them out as "b" prospects means either. Maybe some of our scouts have them rated as "A" prospects?