[brooks] Doubtful Spooner is in Rangers' Long-Term Plans

[RangersIn7]

Ha ha. For now we'll try to raise Fatty's expectations a little and temper Josh's.

 

LOL

 

Everyone is entitled to their own expectations and ideals and viewpoints. Especially here.

 

It’s just a hockey team.

[josh]

I hate to pile on Names but his style definitely doesn't seem conducive to the playoffs. From what we saw in a small, somewhat tainted, portion I'm not even 100% sure his game is conducive to the NHL with us. I'm going to withhold final judgement on him until about January though...if I can be that patient.

 

 

What expectations are you putting on him? He’s been a 2-way, .5ppg Guy most of his career. Put him in the same basket as Anisimov.

[Pete]

Dont worry, their playoff production is similarly bad.

 

But thats irrelevant this season, next and maybe another 2.

 

Pretty clear to me that Millers... anything wasnt going to help the next set of prospects adjust to the nhl

It's not irrelevant to the lightning.

 

Unfair to think Miller's path to the NHL wouldn't help the next set of prospects. Unless you think Hayes/Vesey can teach them how to be a pro...not my cup of tea.

[Pete]

What expectations are you putting on him? He?s been a 2-way, .5ppg Guy most of his career. Put him in the same basket as Anisimov.

Yes that playoff beast AA...

[josh]

Yes that playoff beast AA...

 

??

 

 

.

.

[josh]

It's not irrelevant to the lightning.

 

Unfair to think Miller's path to the NHL wouldn't help the next set of prospects. Unless you think Hayes/Vesey can teach them how to be a pro...not my cup of tea.

 

Hayes is involved with the young guys, now, and fills a top 6 spot. Doesnt mean he will be around, long term

 

Don't care about vesey

[Scott]

I don't see anyway either Hayes or Vesey are ever considered any kind of leader. Far from it based on what I've seen. Vesey is purely a one way player who doesn't even do that well.

[Fatfrancesa]

It’s not about expectations it’s about a players value. To me miller and Namestnikov is not equal value, not even close.

 

A players ability to be born in a certain country or speak a certain language is a low bar to set. I’m sure there are plenty of guys we could have obtained for nothing who speak Russian.

[Fatfrancesa]

I'd like to respond on two levels.

 

The first, I agree the overall return was lighter than hoped. Even after I tempered my expectations (no Sergachev for instance), it feels like Yzerman did very well. Particularly once we found out JT was part of the deal.

 

That we were unable to get either Taylor Raddysh or Boris Katchouk (who was a monster in the playoffs) in that deal was shocking. We should have even given up on the condition on the 2019 pick and insisted on one of them.

 

That said, we differ on a second aspect. The McD deal needed to happen and you are underrating Hajek, Howden and getting their #1, which looks like #29 but could have been better. Neither are B prospects, don't confuse them with the scraps we got from Boston.

 

Howden, 27th overall in 2016 and has progressed nicely and appears on track to becoming a 2 or 3C in the NHL. This year he scored 75 points in 49 games, then had a strong playoff. Good leader, clutch scoring and all around game. He has raised his floor enough that it is hard to imagine him not meeting his baseline expectations.

 

Hajek went 10 picks later (37th) but is also raising his floor as he appears to be on a legit path to eventually play a solid role here. Recently turned 20, he is already 6'2" 205lbs and plays an all around role on D. Looked good in U20 and has the tools. Not a sure thing, but he has improved his value since his draft. He'll get prime minutes in Hartford, as will Howden. I expect they'll both be Ranger regulars sometime during the 2019-20 season.

 

I agree that mcd needed to be traded but it could have happened in the off season. As far as the prospects go it seems to me we asked for about 4-6 guys and were told no and we settled on what we got and yzerman made it sound like we were taking his first born. That said I have no problem with the return on mcd. Maybe our scouts are right and I will let that pan out over time. The miller/Namestnikov part was awful from day 1 and will grow worse by the day. I don?t want to be accused of Monday morning quarterbacking so I?m calling it as it so obviously to me anyway see it.

[Sod16]

It looks to me like Gorton was simply too committed to trading McD at the deadline. Unless he got an elite prospect, he should have just pulled back. Considering that McD and Miller were each vastly more valuable than Nash, especially considering their ages and contract statuses, we should have gotten a vastly bigger return than on the Nash trade. On its face, it does not look like we did. Yes, I know no trade can be fully evaluated until a future time. Heck, I guess Gomez could have turned out great in Montreal and McD might have been a bust, but this trade with Tampa does not look that great at this point.

[RangersIn7]

It looks to me like Gorton was simply too committed to trading McD at the deadline. Unless he got an elite prospect, he should have just pulled back. Considering that McD and Miller were each vastly more valuable than Nash, especially considering their ages and contract statuses, we should have gotten a vastly bigger return than on the Nash trade. On its face, it does not look like we did. Yes, I know no trade can be fully evaluated until a future time. Heck, I guess Gomez could have turned out great in Montreal and McD might have been a bust, but this trade with Tampa does not look that great at this point.

 

No. It doesn’t look great

 

But it doesn’t look bad either.

[Pete]

It?s not about expectations it?s about a players value. To me miller and Namestnikov is not equal value, not even close.

 

A players ability to be born in a certain country or speak a certain language is a low bar to set. I?m sure there are plenty of guys we could have obtained for nothing who speak Russian.

Kreider speaks Russian.

 

That said, we don't know if it was Miller for Names straight up. We keep talking about it like it was, but we don't know for sure.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Kreider speaks Russian.

 

That said, we don't know if it was Miller for Names straight up. We keep talking about it like it was, but we don't know for sure.

 

This goes back to people overvaluing McD

[Gravesy]

This goes back to people overvaluing McD

 

Correct. You had people calling for the likes of Sergachev and Point, which is ridiculous. Yzerman would have to be completely insane to put up that sort of value for McDonagh.

I don't think McD gets you a first, conditional 2nd, Howden and Hajek. The trade has too many moving parts to look at it as JT for Namestnikov.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

People are under the assumption that we were trading a 24 year old McD

[Ozzy]

Man, we need some news or something! This is just ridiculously painstaking waiting for a new coach or the draft!

[Guest]

Correct. You had people calling for the likes of Sergachev and Point, which is ridiculous. Yzerman would have to be completely insane to put up that sort of value for McDonagh.

I don't think McD gets you a first, conditional 2nd, Howden and Hajek. The trade has too many moving parts to look at it as JT for Namestnikov.

 

It's almost certain that Miller for Namestnikov was not a sort of separate deal announced together.

 

There is no way McDonagh basically returned:

 

2016 1st round pick (27th)

2016 2nd round pick (37th)

2018 1st round pick (30th-ish)

2019 2nd round pick (conditional)

 

Where both the 2016 picks have already developed pretty well to where they were more known commodities.

[Fatfrancesa]

Miller was the extra budge to include Hajek instead of another prospect plus Namestnikov

 

Funny in a month McDonagh will be wade redden on here. Four months ago we were winning cups and we couldn’t even trade our ufas. Now mcd was basically dog shit and miller was bobby Bonilla.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

McD is on his back 9 now

[Vodka Drunkenski]

It's almost certain that Miller for Namestnikov was not a sort of separate deal announced together.

 

There is no way McDonagh basically returned:

 

2016 1st round pick (27th)

2016 2nd round pick (37th)

2018 1st round pick (30th-ish)

2019 2nd round pick (conditional)

 

Where both the 2016 picks have already developed pretty well to where they were more known commodities.

 

That?s a great way to explain it

[ThirtyONE]

Kreider speaks Russian.

 

That said, we don't know if it was Miller for Names straight up. We keep talking about it like it was, but we don't know for sure.

 

Of course it wasn't. That's why I don't understand when people assume that. The deal was a 5 player trade plus picks. It was a monster in terms of people movement. Miller was just one of the cogs that got it done.

[Gravesy]

Miller was the extra budge to include Hajek instead of another prospect plus Namestnikov

 

Funny in a month McDonagh will be wade redden on here. Four months ago we were winning cups and we couldn’t even trade our ufas. Now mcd was basically dog shit and miller was bobby Bonilla.

Come on. Nobody’s saying McD was shit.

[Fatfrancesa]

Nash who is going to be a ufa. Gets you a 1st, spooner, Lindgren( decent prospect)

 

Mcd and miller who are both under contract. Miller a decade younger. Mcd at 4.5m cap hit. No matter what anyone says is a steal. They get basically an extra conditional 2, and another little better prospect.

 

Somebody please explain the values here. I would have to think both miller and mcd have more value than Nash. How can anyone say that is good value?

[Fatfrancesa]

Tomas fucking tartar got a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at the same deadline. Nick Holden was a 3rd. Grabner another ufa was a 2nd and a quality prospect. How do these deals equate to the return on two good players under contract that aren’t playing on bad contracts. One of which hasn’t even hit his prime yet. There was no reason to rush trading either.

 

This deal is the kind you make when time runs out. Like Stepan when his no trade kicks in in days. Talbot and hagelin are other examples. I didn’t love those deals but I understood the return due to the timing. This deal should have been tabled. Tampa if they were desperate to improve to chase the cup should have folded not Gorton. You know kind of like how we trade our captain a first and a conditional second for a 40 year old.

 

Even the conditional pick. When we were the buyer the condition was making the finals. For them it’s winning the whole damn thing. Wtf

[Long live the King]

Nash who is going to be a ufa. Gets you a 1st, spooner, Lindgren( decent prospect)

 

Mcd and miller who are both under contract. Miller a decade younger. Mcd at 4.5m cap hit. No matter what anyone says is a steal. They get basically an extra conditional 2, and another little better prospect.

 

Somebody please explain the values here. I would have to think both miller and mcd have more value than Nash. How can anyone say that is good value?

 

Besides you leaving out the fact that we took half of Beleskey's contract off their hands and retained 50% of Nash's contract, comparing what Team A is willing to trade for Forward A to what Team B is willing to trade for D-man A and Forward B is silly. You have to believe Gorton made the best available deal. The team is going in a new direction. There is no guarantee a better deal will be available later. We got the best deal on the table for Nash. We got the best deal on the table for Mcd and Miller. We now have a bunch of picks and prospects that should be getting our attention.