[brooks] Doubtful Spooner is in Rangers' Long-Term Plans

[Sod16]

Nash who is going to be a ufa. Gets you a 1st, spooner, Lindgren( decent prospect)

 

Mcd and miller who are both under contract. Miller a decade younger. Mcd at 4.5m cap hit. No matter what anyone says is a steal. They get basically an extra conditional 2, and another little better prospect.

 

Somebody please explain the values here. I would have to think both miller and mcd have more value than Nash. How can anyone say that is good value?

 

I think this is precisely it. As for taking the Belesky contract and half of Nash's, that's half of Nash's for one pay period (irrelevant) and Belesky's contract is minor compared to real load stone contracts that are really difficult to get rid of. Moreover, Tampa in addition to two excellent assets, got a bargain contract (McD's last year). Every independent commentator I read thought Tampa got the better of this deal. None of those same people thought Boston or NJ got the better of the Nash and Grabner deals. That's the way it looks outside Rangerdome.

[ThirtyONE]

They waited to get a better deal for Talbot and ended up fucking themselves out of a 1st. So, complain all you want, they did what they thought they needed to do when they needed to do it.

 

The organization was not high on Miller. You don't know what's going on behind closed doors or what's been said about him around the league but the Rangers didn't like him. Doesn't matter if you think he has more value than Rick Nash, the market says he didn't.

[Guest]

I think this is precisely it. As for taking the Belesky contract and half of Nash's, that's half of Nash's for one pay period (irrelevant) and Belesky's contract is minor compared to real load stone contracts that are really difficult to get rid of. Moreover, Tampa in addition to two excellent assets, got a bargain contract (McD's last year). Every independent commentator I read thought Tampa got the better of this deal. None of those same people thought Boston or NJ got the better of the Nash and Grabner deals. That's the way it looks outside Rangerdome.

 

Retaining half of Nash's contract and taking Belesky was certainly not irrelevant to the Boston Bruins who would have been unable to make the deal and remain under the salary cap otherwise.

 

The McDonagh/Miller deal also went right down to the wire. If the deal didn't go through, then the Rangers would have had to wait until the draft to move McDonagh, where they would have lost the rental value of his contract.

 

Commentators can say who they think got the better of this type of deal, but it won't really be known until Howden and Hajek develop (or not). The deal has the potential to be bust for the Rangers. On the flipside, it also has similar potential to be a steal for them the way McDonagh's trade from Montreal was. Or perhaps, and to me this is most likely, the deal ends up working for both sides.

[Long live the King]

I think this is precisely it. As for taking the Belesky contract and half of Nash's, that's half of Nash's for one pay period (irrelevant) and Belesky's contract is minor compared to real load stone contracts that are really difficult to get rid of. Moreover, Tampa in addition to two excellent assets, got a bargain contract (McD's last year). Every independent commentator I read thought Tampa got the better of this deal. None of those same people thought Boston or NJ got the better of the Nash and Grabner deals. That's the way it looks outside Rangerdome.

 

Yeah totally irrelevant, except for the fact that Nash wouldn't have fit under the cap without the salary transactions. Boston had to trade Spooner (or another roster player) for cap reasons, plus with the retained salary they saved ~$700k which they really needed since they finished with ~$100k under the cap. So actually it was very relevant, and the trade couldn't have happened without it.

[RangersIn7]

The return, as of now is not great. It’s about average if it’s being viewed now.

 

Gorton did not get that one premium piece in the deal that surely all of us would have liked. Nor did he have to trade McD or Miller at the deadline. So if anyone criticizes him on either of those two points, it’s certainly fair. Warranted even.

 

But it isn’t fair to completely damn the deal now, cause so may of the pieces in it are basically still unknown.

 

That said, had he waited longer on dealing McD, he probably gets less. That’s usually how it works. The longer you wait, the less time the guy you’re moving has on his deal, generally speaking the less of a price the other team is willing to pay.

[josh]

Nash who is going to be a ufa. Gets you a 1st, spooner, Lindgren( decent prospect)

 

Mcd and miller who are both under contract. Miller a decade younger. Mcd at 4.5m cap hit. No matter what anyone says is a steal. They get basically an extra conditional 2, and another little better prospect.

 

Somebody please explain the values here. I would have to think both miller and mcd have more value than Nash. How can anyone say that is good value?

 

Spooner was a cap casualty. Boston had no plans on re-signing him, either.

 

 

Also, these trades are closer to the Brassard - Zibs type of trade, get a bit younger, change of scenery guy entering RFA status, add a good pick. With it being the deadline, and multiple teams competing, you add in the prospects.

 

McDonagh for Namestnikov, 1st, 2nd (Hajek)

Miller for Howden

 

sort our terms of the conditional pick to even it out.

[josh]

They waited to get a better deal for Talbot and ended up fucking themselves out of a 1st. So, complain all you want, they did what they thought they needed to do when they needed to do it.

 

The organization was not high on Miller. You don't know what's going on behind closed doors or what's been said about him around the league but the Rangers didn't like him. Doesn't matter if you think he has more value than Rick Nash, the market says he didn't.

 

I don't think we can say that.

What we can infer, is that NY was like, bro I'm not waiting until we're married. We've been together 5 years.. this is getting ridiculous. One HJ in 5 years??

[The Dude]

After the initial shock of not getting a ?big name?, it?s still a huge return. Buchnevich ?s new bff, Future top 6 center, future Stralman, a first and potentially another first for a third line winger and a defenseman that will be hurt most of next season.

 

Namestnikov speaks Russian. By all accounts, he?s a great guy,hard worker with a good personality. If we are rebuilding, take care of your assets. He will (could) help our future first line winger, our future #1 goalie, our future defenseman. Can?t underestimate that

 

I've said the Russian connection with a bunch of the newly acquired players would benefit current prospects and players. But the more I think about it, the more I think it might be a huge reach.

 

Brothers don't always want to play with brothers, college line mates don't always want to be reunited, and countrymen aren't always searching to recruit countrymen.

 

If that were the case, wouldn't Swedes be flocking to the Rangers to play with Lundqvist?

 

I'm not sure there's really a connection with the Russians here. Unless it's a kiss ass thing, to get Kovalchuk.

 

Who knows. Stranger things have happened.

[The Dude]

That said, had he waited longer on dealing McD, he probably gets less. That?s usually how it works. The longer you wait, the less time the guy you?re moving has on his deal, generally speaking the less of a price the other team is willing to pay.

 

I don't think that's as black and white as you make it out to be.

 

I think teams like Toronto, Florida SJ, and Tampa might pay more after a disappointing loss in the playoffs. Holes get identified and magnified after the playoffs. Certain parts of teams become seen as less needed when the run is over. On paper, I'd think GM's get spooked and will make a big move that they wouldn't during the season.

 

What Ottawa gets for Karlsson should only be a percentile above what the Rangers could have gotten for McD and Miller/combo of other players.

 

Toronto will give up one of their young forwards for a player similar to McD, either this summer or next.

 

I'm really not too excited about the return they Got. I think there's a ton of giddy new piece hype about the guys they got.

[RangersIn7]

I don't think that's as black and white as you make it out to be.

 

I think teams like Toronto, Florida SJ, and Tampa might pay more after a disappointing loss in the playoffs. Holes get identified and magnified after the playoffs. Certain parts of teams become seen as less needed when the run is over. On paper, I'd think GM's get spooked and will make a big move that they wouldn't during the season.

 

What Ottawa gets for Karlsson should only be a percentile above what the Rangers could have gotten for McD and Miller/combo of other players.

 

Toronto will give up one of their young forwards for a player similar to McD, either this summer or next.

 

I'm really not too excited about the return they Got. I think there's a ton of giddy new piece hype about the guys they got.

 

That’s possible. Has he waited, it’s possible more teams are involved a d that helps you get a price.

But I’m only saying that as a general rule, the longer you wait, the less you get.

[josh]

I've said the Russian connection with a bunch of the newly acquired players would benefit current prospects and players. But the more I think about it, the more I think it might be a huge reach.

 

Brothers don't always want to play with brothers, college line mates don't always want to be reunited, and countrymen aren't always searching to recruit countrymen.

 

If that were the case, wouldn't Swedes be flocking to the Rangers to play with Lundqvist?

 

I'm not sure there's really a connection with the Russians here. Unless it's a kiss ass thing, to get Kovalchuk.

 

Who knows. Stranger things have happened.

 

Put yourself in Buchnevich ‘s position and tell me it doesn’t matter.

[Long live the King]

Put yourself in Buchnevich ‘s position and tell me it doesn’t matter.

 

Cant' find an article with the quote, but I'm positive, either when Georgiev got called up or after the Names trade, Buch was quoted in the press about how he enjoyed having another Russian on the team.

[Scott]

If it matters that much to Buch than he's mentally weak if it's going to take a "talent" like Names to spark his game and maturity. That's no reason to slot Names in anywhere without him earning it. These guys are supposed to be pros, like I said before get a translator and a shrink f necessary. Buch is going into his third season @ 23 years old, he's not a teenager. Maybe he is who he's shown to be with or without a babysitter.

[Long live the King]

If it matters that much to Buch than he's mentally weak if it's going to take a "talent" like Names to spark his game and maturity. That's no reason to slot Names in anywhere without him earning it. These guys are supposed to be pros, like I said before get a translator and a shrink f necessary. Buch is going into his third season @ 23 years old, he's not a teenager. Maybe he is who he's shown to be with or without a babysitter.

 

Yea, yea, totally. Needing a baby sitter is the same as having a teammate that speaks the same language as you to hang out with away from the rink. I mean what the fuck is Buch's problem. Its not like the majority of his day is spent away from hockey. Fuck him for wanting someone to talk to.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Namestnikov is practically American

[Long live the King]

Namestnikov is practically American

 

Moving to from Russia to Canada at 18 to play in the OHL makes him practically American?

[josh]

If it matters that much to Buch than he's mentally weak if it's going to take a "talent" like Names to spark his game and maturity. That's no reason to slot Names in anywhere without him earning it. These guys are supposed to be pros, like I said before get a translator and a shrink f necessary. Buch is going into his third season @ 23 years old, he's not a teenager. Maybe he is who he's shown to be with or without a babysitter.

 

His job isn?t like your job.

 

He doesn?t go home to family, friends, etc.

if you are expecting to develop this kid into something meaningful, you need to create a welcoming, enjoyable, and relaxing environment. What you see is .2% of his life, and 5% of his work life.

 

You are setting him up for failure if you just look at practices and games and think ?he?s old enough?

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Moving to from Russia to Canada at 18 to play in the OHL makes him practically American?

 

He lived 2/3 of his life in the US, he?s practically American

[Scott]

His job isn’t like your job.

 

He doesn’t go home to family, friends, etc.

if you are expecting to develop this kid into something meaningful, you need to create a welcoming, enjoyable, and relaxing environment. What you see is .2% of his life, and 5% of his work life.

 

You are setting him up for failure if you just look at practices and games and think “he’s old enough”

 

If you think he needs to be catered too by a guy that has a ton to prove we'll agree to disagree. I don't think every Russian that's ever come over here needed their hand held. And no it's not like my job these guys are getting paid a fortune to play a game for a living. Sorry I blame his play on him and him only in fact if I had to bet I would bet he is who he's shown to be no matter who else on the team speaks Russian. Haven't we already established Kreider speaks Russian. He's a hell of a lot closer to a leader than Names, not saying much but it's true.

 

Josh as a pro athlete I only care about the % of time when he's on the ice, not what he's doing off the ice. Maybe he'd be better of going back to the KHL so he finds some comfort in his life. I don't think he's remotely good enough to have to carry a support system for him on the roster.

[josh]

What do you do for a living? Because I can make you a shit load of money if you don’t care about that shit

[The Dude]

Put yourself in Buchnevich ‘s position and tell me it doesn’t matter.

 

Do we have to cater to Buch though? Is he that good.

 

Yeah obviously it's nice to have a guy that speaks the same language, but people thinking it's some kind of in, to lure other Russians here, I feel, is a reach.

[ThirtyONE]

If you think he needs to be catered too by a guy that has a ton to prove we'll agree to disagree. I don't think every Russian that's ever come over here needed their hand held. And no it's not like my job these guys are getting paid a fortune to play a game for a living. Sorry I blame his play on him and him only in fact if I had to bet I would bet he is who he's shown to be no matter who else on the team speaks Russian. Haven't we already established Kreider speaks Russian. He's a hell of a lot closer to a leader than Names, not saying much but it's true.

 

Josh as a pro athlete I only care about the % of time when he's on the ice, not what he's doing off the ice. Maybe he'd be better of going back to the KHL so he finds some comfort in his life. I don't think he's remotely good enough to have to carry a support system for him on the roster.

 

I love this attitude. As if the bolded has ANYTHING to do with the subject.

 

Even if you are only mediocre at your job, what ever it is that you do, go do it in Russia without your family or friends and let me know how you perform. They'll pay you well, I'm sure.

 

 

This is part of the reason I'd love to get Kovalchuk here. We have a lot of young russian players in the system now. It would be nice for them to have a base of countrymen to help them assimilate.

[The Dude]

Cant' find an article with the quote, but I'm positive, either when Georgiev got called up or after the Names trade, Buch was quoted in the press about how he enjoyed having another Russian on the team.

 

Again, I don't think it's some sort of recruiting thing like people are suggesting. I mean this was Buch's 2nd season. They just got a Russian now??? If it were this big deal, I'd think they would have gotten one or some to make him comfortable from the start. No? Well it is the Rangers... So maybe.

[Mike]

If you think he needs to be catered too by a guy that has a ton to prove we'll agree to disagree. I don't think every Russian that's ever come over here needed their hand held. And no it's not like my job these guys are getting paid a fortune to play a game for a living. Sorry I blame his play on him and him only in fact if I had to bet I would bet he is who he's shown to be no matter who else on the team speaks Russian. Haven't we already established Kreider speaks Russian. He's a hell of a lot closer to a leader than Names, not saying much but it's true.

 

Josh as a pro athlete I only care about the % of time when he's on the ice, not what he's doing off the ice. Maybe he'd be better of going back to the KHL so he finds some comfort in his life. I don't think he's remotely good enough to have to carry a support system for him on the roster.

 

Regardless of their salary, they’re human beings, not robots. The things these kids go through from mites to wherever they currently are is a lot. They sacrifice a lot, they don’t get to do what other kids do as teens on a regular basis. Being comfortable in your environment whether you’re a pro, junior, or midget player is important to your performance.

[Mike]

Again, I don't think it's some sort of recruiting thing like people are suggesting. I mean this was Buch's 2nd season. They just got a Russian now??? If it were this big deal, I'd think they would have gotten one or some to make him comfortable from the start. No? Well it is the Rangers... So maybe.

 

Wrong. It’s absolutely a buddy system when given the opportunity. Not saying a particular destination is the right fit just because your pal is there, but it’s something that plays a factor. It happens at EVERY level.