Phil Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 By the way, this theory is one I love. It's fucking beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 One thing I did notice, Night's King is a terrible general. He had one wave of Wights and a single White Walker (presumably) come in across the field towards the giant gate. He let that force get beat back before he had the second wave come down from the cliffs. Had he made those two attacks simultaneously or even started with the cliff attack, very few would have escaped to the sea. And why send a single White Walker? Just to see if they could find a way to kill it? I don't think he expected the White Walker he sent in to get killed by Jon. That was basically his one man clean up crew to deal with whoever wasn't being dealt with by the wights. If that White Walker doesn't go down I don't think that second wave of wights comes in. I think the purpose was to kill, but also to intimidate at the same time. I don't think the White Walkers are stupid and there have been plenty of moments where a White Walker could have killed someone, but didn't. I'm thinking of when Will/Gared runs away from them in the first episode/book. They clearly have the ability to move and beat the shit out of anything, they just don't always choose to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah I perceived this attack as more of them sending a message/show oif strength than anything. Especially evidenced by the end with the Night's King "witness our power" stance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah I perceived this attack as more of them sending a message/show oif strength than anything. Especially evidenced by the end with the Night's King "witness our power" stance Come at me, Crow or Come at me, Snow are the only acceptable terms for this moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 OK well he says that first, then "witness our power" haha. Also I dont know if it was deer in headlights syndrome, but when that dude is staring down at you and the army of the dead is right behind him, ROW THE GOD DAMN BOAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 :rofl: I think they were just scared shitless, to be honest. Just in absolutely terrifying wonder at the sight they just saw — the fucking Night's King walking calmly across the docks to stare down Jon Snow in a show of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 As much as that was a power stance, I think it was more about raising the wights. Like that was the action needed for him to do that to all of them. I think the effect of seeing several hundred dead wildlings and Nights Watch intimidated Jon and the others more than the stance itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Also just read a pretttyyy interesting theory on another board. What if Stannis dies as well (in additon to Jon) in the battle at Winterfell and Melisandre attempts to resurrect him by saying something like "let the one true king rise" or some shit, and Jon is the one that wakes up. Would be pretty badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 That would be awesome. I'd have a huge fanboy moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Also just read a pretttyyy interesting theory on another board. What if Stannis dies as well (in additon to Jon) in the battle at Winterfell and Melisandre attempts to resurrect him by saying something like "let the one true king rise" or some shit, and Jon is the one that wakes up. Would be pretty badass. I could see it, just not in that manner. I see it more like Stannis and Melisandre end up back at the Wall again, but Stannis is killed by Ramsay's "hit first, and hit hard" approach. Jon is also killed by his own men near the same time and Melisandre realizes by some manner that it's not Stannis but Jon who needs her. She leaves Stannis for dead (only for him to reawaken a Wight — The Great Other) and Jon is brought back under her (false) belief that he is Azor Ahai. The more I read the theory I posted above, the more I think Dany is Azor Ahai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The only hole I see in the Jon/Stannis resurrection thing is if it happens at the wall there's an urgency to burn the body to prevent them from turning. One way or another however Melisandre is looking for king's blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Right, so maybe Stannis dies outside the wall before they have a chance to resurrect him? Or maybe they literally leave his body and drag Jon's back, leaving Stannis to reanimate as a Wight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I'm wondering how far south you have to go so you don't reanimate. Because both in the show and books Stannis is near Winterfell, and Jon is at the Wall (with Melisandre) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 By the way, this theory is one I love. It's fucking beautiful. That's a really strong theory. We always thing of R+L=J being about John really being a Targaryen, one of the three heads of the dragon, not about him being half Stark as well. Also, something else that's been stirring in my head. Bran has warged into Hodor, I wonder if he could warg into a wight. And if he could do it into one, could he control many? Wights seem to do the bidding of the White Walkers. We're not entirely sure how they are controlled, but if it's a sort of hive mind kind of thing, perhaps Bran could take over a whole faction of them, or perhaps the entire army of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High and Wide Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I understand why they burned Shireen for the purpose of the show, and wasn't upset necessarily at the fact that they did, but I don't understand why they wanted to make this great a deviation from the books. Stannis is just leader, concerned with doing everything the right way. Everyone who was burned in both the books and the show at least fit into Stannis' standard of justice — either that character was disloyal to Stannis or Melisandre, or wouldn't bend the knee. While seemingly trivial, it still made sense within Stannis' way of rule. Burning Shireen, who has done nothing to deserve his justice, does not fit that mold. This action is desperate and evil, something that Stannis is never portrayed as. Even if we assume that, in the books, Asha is to sacrificed, she is a prisoner subject to his will. I am much more upset with this take, than I am with the action itself. As was posted in the show thread, I agree with Weiss' explanation for the action, about how we tend to hold a greater discomfort over violence against children or just characters who have been given a face, than the deaths we assume happen over the course of war. It is also puzzling considering the fact that Daenerys rode Drogon off unscathed. In ADWD we are left with her injured somewhere in the Dothraki sea. After the Shireen scene, I was expecting something to happen to Dany during the Harpy attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I'm OK with Dany being unharmed. The idea was to get her to ride a dragon again, less so to be injured during the attack itself. The symbolism of that scene is no less powerful had she been bleeding or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I read that in the Inside the Episode thing (someone who watched it can confirm) David and Dan said GRRM told them this was Shireen's fate in the books. Perhaps Stannis' justification for having this done will be made clearer in TWoW (even though Shireen is on Dragonstone in the books...?) edit: Forgot shes at Castle Black in the ADWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High and Wide Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I'm OK with Dany being unharmed. The idea was to get her to ride a dragon again, less so to be injured during the attack itself. The symbolism of that scene is no less powerful had she been bleeding or not. I am too. I just am confused by the willingness to insert violence where there is none, in such a gruesome way, but take it away in a situation where it sets up the next season. Whether or not they go the Khal Jhoqo route, we were still meant to feel unsure about her future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 They could have easily harmed her. I mean once Drogon showed up the Sons of the Harpy pretty much forgot all about her and just attacked him instead. She couldve easily even just been caught in the crossfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I'm also surprised they killed off Hizdahr, since he seems to be so involved with the Harpies in the book, and then one put a spear in his chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High and Wide Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I read the casting information on this episode a few days ago and was totally expecting the Varys/Kevan Lannister scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Same. As I was watching the episode I was thinking that pretty much every good thing from AFFC and ADWD happened in this episode haha. Except that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Kevan's death was really the last major event from ADWD that we didn't see, outside of the stories they passed over, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Quoting this here because it contains a book spoiler not present in the show: Hey, I don't doubt he's not gone. Like I said, maybe it's a Bran thing. But I also don't see how you can support that whole Wall story without touching on it, unless you go the entire season without a Wall story. Thing is, this is the first time in history now that the show has caught up to, and in a few cases, surpassed the books. So we're absolutely winging it. Sure. Also possible that he wargs into Ghost right before he dies the way Orthel warged into his eagle when John killed him. In the book, John's last word is "Ghost" and he's thinking about Arya. It could also tie into Brans' future storyline. Could Kit be out but John Snow, warged into Ghost, still be a character. Perhaps eventually warging out of Ghost and into someone/thing else? How about Coldhands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers92 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I cant think of anything else that was major and not written out (Manderly stuff, for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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