[SPOILER] Game of Thrones Discussion

[Phil]

My only issue with that Dave, is that unlike Bran, we've seen almost nothing out of Jon (there's no 'h'!) regarding warging ability. If he's like the rest of the Starks its plausible, but it's a stretch.

 

Much more likely Melisandre (what other purpose does she serve at the wall?) resurrects him, believing he is Azor Ahai.

[Dave]

My only issue with that Dave, is that unlike Bran, we've seen almost nothing out of Jon (there's no 'h'!) regarding warging ability. If he's like the rest of the Starks its plausible, but it's a stretch.

 

Much more likely Melisandre (what other purpose does she serve at the wall?) resurrects him, believing he is Azor Ahai.

 

Sites down so I had to use a cached version:

 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:o5qo2WpXGEEJ:awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Skinchanger+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

Jon Snow: Varamyr Sixskins notes that Jon Snow is a strong skinchanger, but untrained in and unaware of his true abilities; he had known what Jon was the moment he saw the great white direwolf Ghost stalking silent at his side. Jon's ability has manifested few times, as he slipped into Ghost while scouting for wildlings with Qhorin Halfhand. Through Ghost's eyes, he spies on the wildling horde. When an eagle attacks Ghost, Jon wakes screaming. By A Dance with Dragons, Jon often has wolf dreams. Melisandre offers to help him with his abilities, but so far Jon has turned her down.

[Phil]

Ah, you're right. Forgot about that.

 

So maybe it's a combination of the two? Jon wargs into Ghost, but Melisandre somehow brings him back to his original body using blood magic?

[NYRangers92]

FWIW Myrcella did in fact die

http://www.gameofthronesonhbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-5/episode-10/people/93/myrcella-baratheon

 

Although the page for Stannis says hes dead, too, and we didnt exactly see that so who knows.

I still think there's a slight chance Brienne had a change of heart when he told her "Do your duty".

 

This is a still from the site...I dont remember seeing this in the episode?

http://assets.viewers-guide.hbo.com/xlarge5579e6051a628.jpg

[Phil]

You don't remember seeing her die? It was on the boat, when she told Jamie she "knew" he was her father, and that she was happy about it.

[High and Wide]

Just saw that as well. I don't remember that still either. As far as Stannis goes, he has nothing left in the show. He's effectively dead as a character regardless of whether or not it was actually shown. It just plays into our psyche as we've been told that the rule of thumb of this show is that, "If you haven't seen a character die, they aren't dead". But if Melisandre had another purpose for Stannis, she wouldn't have abandoned him. I thought that maybe, Stannis would be a part in Jon's resurrection, but it just seems so far-fetched.

 

Myrcella being dead renders Jaime's whole storyline this season useless. There were many better ways they could have depicted Dorne. In the books, you feel sympathetic towards Dorne, rooting for them to get their revenge against the Lannisters. The show depicted them as vindictive and tried so hard to build Jaime, Bronn, and Myrcella up, that you feel resentful towards Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. In a season where I felt was at times the show was at its strongest, Dorne was just a huge question mark the whole time. Dorne was as diminished as the Iron Islands. Whether you like any of those plots or not, they are still necessary to the overall picture.

 

At the end of A Dance with Dragons, you are left with a level of hope for the saga's "good" characters. You can sort of feel a turning of the tide, but still insecurity. The TV representation of this was a total crusher for me. I feel completely different right now having watched the last few episodes of this season than I did when I finished ADWD. I really hope that The Winds of Winter comes out before season six, because I really don't see what is left to root for in the show, Jon/Dany aside. Without the physical presence of Stannis fighting the remnants of the Lannister/Bolton alliance, Cersei et al can rebound.

[Phil]

That still was the last shot from that scene from the boat, before they went back to the shot at the docks of Cunty McGee wiping blood from her nose and smearing the poison off her lips.

[Phil]

Now that I'm thinking about it, Myrcella's death was the show's version of Kevan's death, no?

 

With Varys over in Mereen, there's no way for him to murder Kevan to put an axe between the Martell/Lannister alliance, so killing Myrcella is an effective substitute. It will kill the already tumultuous "partnership" they have.

[Phil]

Also, here's a fun theory...

 

If R+L=J, then Jon's body is burned, as is custom in the North, only for Jon Targareyen to walk out of the flames/ashes.

[H-Dreamer]

I don't necessarily need a happy Ending, but I kinda wanna have some of the "good" characters actually see that ending and be themselves not a damn wolf.

This version of Jons demise, in theory, still leaves hope for Melisandre to save him in a way, but I really need "Winds" sooner rather than later to have any motivation of continuing this story.

[Phil]

Which won't happen. Benioff already confirmed the show will surpass the books. They'll tell the same ending, with two different paths to it.

 

Pathetic on the part of Martin, who is going to be playing second fiddle to his own fucking story. Ironic, considering he writes it all on an MS-DOS machine. Here we are, facing the reality—no longer potential or speculation—that he's about to be lapped.

[H-Dreamer]

Of course it will happen, that has been clear for years now. I am just annoyed by it all, maybe it's the rumors Harrington spread that are getting to me a bit too much, I just know I won't "survive" him really being gone too.

What would be the Wall focus then, Melisandre and Davos in the series, Melisandre and "the King actually dumber than Joffrey" (at least on TV) Stannis? Brilliant.

[Dave]

Of course it will happen, that has been clear for years now. I am just annoyed by it all, maybe it's the rumors Harrington spread that are getting to me a bit too much, I just know I won't "survive" him really being gone too.

What would be the Wall focus then, Melisandre and Davos in the series, Melisandre and "the King actually dumber than Joffrey" (at least on TV) Stannis? Brilliant.

 

I have a hard time thinking the Wall is going to be the focal point of the epic end battle we all expect. If anything, I see the Nights' Watch being decimated by a legion of White Walkers/Wights flooding through, pushing the Wildlings in the Gift and then the rest of Westeros further South. So I don't expect any Wall focus for too much longer.

 

The only way the White Walkers/Wights threaten the rest of the "world" is if they get past the Wall.

[Phil]

If he's really dead, as in dead-dead. Joffrey-dead. Ned-dead. I agree. Story just cut it's own heart out.

 

To me, this whole thing relies heavily on the prophecies of Azor Ahai and how closely tied to it Jon Snow is.

 

It's long, but it's dead on if you've got the time and interest:

 

[Dave]

http://www.ecumenicalnews.com/article/winds-of-winter-release-date-update-george-r-r-martin-asks-fans-stop-emailing-him-30471

 

Good news for "Games of Thrones" fans. Author George R.R. Martin is determined to release the next volume of his epic tale before season 6 of the TV series starts.

 

Now that the fifth season of the HBO series is drawing to a close, the 66-year-old author wants to finish "The Winds of Winter", the next volume of his epic novel before season 6 starts. In order to do that, GRRM has decided to cut down on all public appearances and interviews so he'll have more time to write. He has also declined from writing an episode for the season.

 

In an interview with EW, the American novelist talked about what he has done to get more writing time in.

 

According to him, he might be "overly optimistic about how quickly I can finish, but I cancelled two convention appearances (San Diego Comic Con and World Convention), I'm turning down a lot more interviews - anything I can do to clear my decks and get this done."

[Morphinity 2.0]

If that's actually true, then I'll force myself to read through the putrid piece of shit that is AFFC.

[Phil]

http://www.ecumenicalnews.com/article/winds-of-winter-release-date-update-george-r-r-martin-asks-fans-stop-emailing-him-30471

 

He has no one to blame but himself. Is there anything more ironic and descriptive as to why we are where we are than the fact he writes this entire series with a DOS word processor? I mean, fuck ? who cares if he's 66?

 

Either way, color me skeptical that he'll actually get TWOF out before the show-runners do. I'll eat both my shoes if he gets the series finished before the show does too.

[NYRangers92]

Season 6 is 9 months away. They announced book 5 in March 2011, when it was still not 100% done, and it was published in July. So 4 months from announcement to publishing. If he wants it out before Season 6 it has to be out by early to mid-March, meaning he would have to be done by November-December. I'll be shocked (and happy, dont get me wrong) if hes done writing by November, based on what hes stated to have already completed.

 

Then again they could always push up the series a few months. Have it debut a year from Sunday instead of ending. Not 100% sure if its too late for that, but filming starts in a few weeks.

[NYRangers92]

Anyways...quoting Phil here because what I'm gonna say is book related mostly

The Dothraki respond to power, not blood-lines or right. I have little doubt that Jhaqo will try to kill and/or rape Dany. I also have little doubt that Drogon will fiercely defend his mother. She didn't travel far from where he slept, so he won't have to travel far to do so.

 

In short, I see it going down with very few words and the attempted assault/rape of Dany, only for Drogon to capture the eye of the Dothraki horde, giving pause to the assault just for a moment. A moment long enough for him to burn Jhago alive, and probably eat him.

 

What better way to effectively take control of a Dothraki khalasar than to kill their leader in front of them? The entire horde would effectively bow before her. She could then ride with them back to Mereen (where Tyrion is attempting to restore order), effectively bolstering her ranks from the number of Unsullied she's lost to the Sons of the Harpy.

 

Or fuck it — maybe he does take her captive for a short while while Drogon recovers. Maybe it's Jorah and Daario that find her? She left her ring for them to find, most likely. Either way, she's taking control of that khalasar. Whether it's in episode one or ten.

 

I dont know why it didnt 100% occur to me when reading, but I think its possible that the Khalasar will see Drogon when he comes to Dany's aid if need be and believe him to be, whether rightfully or not, their Horse God/Stallion Who Mounts the World.

As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name. The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world

It can be inferred here through word choice, especially concerning the use weather/sky related similes to describe the Stallion that the Stallion is in fact a dragon. The dothraki do go back to a time when dragons were more prevalent, and over time as the dragons disappeared their existence made their way into dothraki legend/religion. A dragon's relative similarity to a winged horse would make sense in this regard, and Dany riding Drogon (after he roasts Khal Jhaqo first haha) would make her the new Khal(eesi).

[Phil]

Yeah, for sure. To me it makes a ton of sense.

[High and Wide]

I'm still extremely annoyed over the fact that Dorne was completely mis-represented and a waste of time. I was expecting some kind of connection to Arys Oakheart with Bronn and Taene, or something truly similar to the attack by Darkstar. I mean, what the hell was the point of even bringing in Doran and Hoteh. :banghead:

[Phil]

Because Doran was designed as a pragmatic man of great resolve and patience, who understands this game being played and the stakes involved. Ellaria does not. Or does, and doesn't care.

 

You now know the face of the house the Lannisters will go to war with over Myrcella's death.

 

Was it wasted? Or was it just repurposed to have a different approach? I'd argue the latter.

[NYRangers92]

I wouldnt call it a waste just yet. It depends on how they handle it next season and bring it around to his plans from the book to back Daenerys and have the Sand Snakes infiltrate areas in King's Landing. They didnt really have much in the way of showing Doran playing the long game.

I was also surprised that they had Ellaria be the one to kill Myrcella, since I felt under the impression that she was proxy Arianne, who tried to crown Myrcella.

[Phil]

Sources have told io9 that Kit Harington — whose character Jon Snow seemingly perished in the recent season finale — has been seen in Belfast with several other members of the cast. Belfast, of course, is home to much of the show’s filming for scenes set in the North and at The Wall. Production is already preparing to start on Game of Thrones’ sixth season, so our source speculates that Harington could be making appearances as Snow — either flashbacks, or scenes showing that he survived the seemingly fatal mutiny of the Night’s Watch.

 

http://io9.com/one-major-game-of-thrones-character-may-not-be-as-dead-1712452372?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[Drew a Penalty]

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