The Dude Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Well. Its time. He's not improving. He's regressing. And this is WITH a good coaching staff. He's not contributing enough offense to look past his bad decision making with the puck and his baby shit soft defense. He hasn't scored a goal in 15 games and only has 3 assists in that time period. He's one of a select very few that can be moved without the fuss of no trade/move clauses. He's got boatloads of raw talent. But I think we have already seen his best. I think it's time to move an asset that is somewhat of a luxury, for a glaring need through out the system. They have no center depth. Chytil looks like he may not make it back (ever). Gustafsson would take Millers spot for the rest of the season. Then the deadline move is for a 6th D man. This is an exaggeration (but not really)... I don't think Jones is any worse defensively. So, for now he gets his shot. But if we know Miller is atrocious in his own end, everyone else does as well. So, realistically. What is he even worth? When ever the topic of trading him came up in the past, I always expected a huge haul. HUGE. Now? I'm not so sure. What do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 34 minutes ago, The Dude said: Well. Its time. He's not improving. He's regressing. And this is WITH a good coaching staff. He's not contributing enough offense to look past his bad decision making with the puck and his baby shit soft defense. He hasn't scored a goal in 15 games and only has 3 assists in that time period. He's one of a select very few that can be moved without the fuss of no trade/move clauses. He's got boatloads of raw talent. But I think we have already seen his best. I think it's time to move an asset that is somewhat of a luxury, for a glaring need through out the system. They have no center depth. Chytil looks like he may not make it back (ever). Gustafsson would take Millers spot for the rest of the season. Then the deadline move is for a 6th D man. This is an exaggeration (but not really)... I don't think Jones is any worse defensively. So, for now he gets his shot. But if we know Miller is atrocious in his own end, everyone else does as well. So, realistically. What is he even worth? When ever the topic of trading him came up in the past, I always expected a huge haul. HUGE. Now? I'm not so sure. What do you all think? Really love him when he's on and scoring those big goals but no one is untouchable in my eyes. I'd do it for the right return. Hard to speculate what the right return is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delneggs Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 I think moving Miller would be very short sighted as he is only 24 and has tons of potential yet to develop. We have seen how good he can be, so perhaps a bit of patience is in order since no one can be at their best all the time, especially when they are young and still developing. The ONLY way I would trade him is if the haul was too good to pass up and a significant overpay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 I don't think the team is going to move him, and if they do, it's not going to be until the summer. They have already said on more than one occasion that they're not looking to subtract from the roster. The idea that Gus could just take his spot is like choosing between cancer and your right lung and left lung. I don't understand why people think he's much better than Miller, because he isn't. There's a reason why he's a third pairing journeyman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetchy2 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Would love to get Mattius Samuelsson from Buf straight up for Miller. He's a +4 on a shit team under a favorable long term contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 13 minutes ago, leetchy2 said: Would love to get Mattius Samuelsson from Buf straight up for Miller. He's a +4 on a shit team under a favorable long term contract. 29 career points in 150 games? No. You can get much more for that than Miller. I'm also not paying 4.2 million for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Pete said: I don't think the team is going to move him, and if they do, it's not going to be until the summer. They have already said on more than one occasion that they're not looking to subtract from the roster. The idea that Gus could just take his spot is like choosing between cancer and your right lung and left lung. I don't understand why people think he's much better than Miller, because he isn't. There's a reason why he's a third pairing journeyman. Do you have a link for the Rangers saying they don't want to move anyone from the roster? I know Vince said something about it when he mentioned that he heard talk, that the whole league was talking about the Rangers trying to move Goodrow, but you know, totally weren't because he did a 180 on it by saying he hadn't heard from the Rangers that they were... buuut, didn't want to add players from the roster to facilitate such a move. Which is it? How does one statement not contradict the other 2? I don't recall hearing anything of the sort since then. Anyway, Gustafsson isn't much if at all better than Miller. He's kinda equal. That's the point. One makes the other redundant. Do we need 2 Miller's to absolutely suck at defense? I'd rather 1. I'd totally trade Gustafsson, but Miller's cap hit and potential return brings back more. They need substantial upgrades and the cap space is needed as well as a substantial player going the other way. Gustafsson can do everything Miller does. It's not one being better than the other. One gets you more and relieves cap space for an actual upgrade. The other brings in an 800k player. It's all about cap. If cap space and NM/NTCs weren't an issue, Miller stays forever. That's not this teams reality. I'd understand if you came back with something like "This year doesn't matter, I'd rather keep him and hope the cap space they gain this summer allows for a free agent acquisition or 2 for the current needs". I'd disagree, but that's a take that has long term interest in mind. I think Miller is gone now or over the summer anyway. I don't think there would be much difference in the return. Anyone who trades for him is going to have enough interest to shake things up to bring him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br4d Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 9 hours ago, jsm7302 said: Really love him when he's on and scoring those big goals but no one is untouchable in my eyes. I'd do it for the right return. Hard to speculate what the right return is though. I don't think there is anybody on the current Ranger's roster who is untouchable. Everybody could be had in the right deal if the NMC could be managed. This team is right on the edge of another rebuild. We're so close it could happen this off-season with the right moves and incentives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 8 hours ago, delneggs said: I think moving Miller would be very short sighted as he is only 24 and has tons of potential yet to develop. We have seen how good he can be, so perhaps a bit of patience is in order since no one can be at their best all the time, especially when they are young and still developing. The ONLY way I would trade him is if the haul was too good to pass up and a significant overpay. Understood. Point taken. I just think he's done developing. It's his 4th season. He's been getting prime minutes. He hasn't been held back or buried on the 3rd pair. The D just isn't coming around. That's fine. That's what he is. But the offense was the thing that made him stand out. And it has been missing big time. This coach encourages the D to join the play or rush up the ice. Miller is disinterested all around. IDK. Maybe there's something wrong upstairs. Body language is that of a guy that doesn't really care. He took time off recently. Maybe there's more to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 18 minutes ago, The Dude said: Do you have a link for the Rangers saying they don't want to move anyone from the roster? I know Vince said something about it when he mentioned that he heard talk, that the whole league was talking about the Rangers trying to move Goodrow, but you know, totally weren't because he did a 180 on it by saying he hadn't heard from the Rangers that they were... buuut, didn't want to add players from the roster to facilitate such a move. Which is it? How does one statement not contradict the other 2? I don't recall hearing anything of the sort since then. Anyway, Gustafsson isn't much if at all better than Miller. He's kinda equal. That's the point. One makes the other redundant. Do we need 2 Miller's to absolutely suck at defense? I'd rather 1. I'd totally trade Gustafsson, but Miller's cap hit and potential return brings back more. They need substantial upgrades and the cap space is needed as well as a substantial player going the other way. Gustafsson can do everything Miller does. It's not one being better than the other. One gets you more and relieves cap space for an actual upgrade. The other brings in an 800k player. It's all about cap. If cap space and NM/NTCs weren't an issue, Miller stays forever. That's not this teams reality. I'd understand if you came back with something like "This year doesn't matter, I'd rather keep him and hope the cap space they gain this summer allows for a free agent acquisition or 2 for the current needs". I'd disagree, but that's a take that has long term interest in mind. I think Miller is gone now or over the summer anyway. I don't think there would be much difference in the return. Anyone who trades for him is going to have enough interest to shake things up to bring him in. I'm not going to debate conspiracy theories, if you think they're going to move him during the season, I disagree. Makes the point moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) Lindgren is hurt. Only chance Miller is moved in-season is for a better left defenseman at this stage. Lavi also tipped his hand that he thinks (correctly) that Lindgren wasn’t pulling his weight anymore with Fox, and demoted Lindgren. That suggests Miller is viewed as the best LD on the team right now, even though Lavi (correctly) picked Gus to pair with Fox for now. Miller can’t be your best left defenseman. Chychrun? Edited January 27 by BrooksBurner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 17 minutes ago, Br4d said: I don't think there is anybody on the current Ranger's roster who is untouchable. Everybody could be had in the right deal if the NMC could be managed. This team is right on the edge of another rebuild. We're so close it could happen this off-season with the right moves and incentives. The reality is they're not going to be rebuilding this summer unless the team completely nose dives and misses the playoffs. Summer of 25 is when contracts become attractive to be dealt. One more years of Panarin, 2 more for Kreider, one more for Trouba, Miller RFA, Igor may go at the '25 deadline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 3 minutes ago, Pete said: I'm not going to debate conspiracy theories, if you think they're going to move him during the season, I disagree. Makes the point moot. OK. But if you're going to say the team has said something multiple times, I'd like a link to confirm it. I haven't read that anywhere. No conspiracy theories. Just want you to back your hard stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 4 minutes ago, The Dude said: OK. But if you're going to say the team has said something multiple times, I'd like a link to confirm it. I haven't read that anywhere. No conspiracy theories. Just want you to back your hard stance. Listen to podcasts. It's all right there for you. I'm not making this shit up, the media is saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 6 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Lindgren is hurt. Only chance Miller is moved in-season is for a better left defenseman at this stage. Lavi also tipped his hand that he thinks (correctly) that Lindgren wasn’t pulling his weight anymore with Fox, and demoted Lindgren. That suggests Miller is viewed as the best LD on the team right now, even though Lavi (correctly) picked Gus to pair with Fox for now. Miller can’t be your best left defenseman. Chychrun? Nah. He moved Gustafsson up. Don't forget. That's his guy. I don't think Lindgren being moved away from Fox is anything but shaking up the pairs. Miller should be demoted to 3rd pair. Start sheltering his minutes. If Miller goes, a lesser D man will be brought in to play on the 3rd pair (in same trade or later down the road). Lindgren will probably be reunited with Fox or put with Trouba. Lindgren- Fox Gustafsson- Trouba Jones/AHLer then Journeyman- Schneider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 He's off more than on. His deficiencies are pretty well baked in. As many have said, he should be a forward. His market value gradually declines from here. We don't have someone to fill his spot, so we would probably have to get a D-man for him, leaving the center and wing problems unsolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, Pete said: Listen to podcasts. It's all right there for you. I'm not making this shit up, the media is saying it. Well you lose. You can't provide a link? It didn't happen. That's usually how we roll here. I'll go on saying that didn't happen. You can go on saying you heard it on a podcast. You go your way here. I'll go mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 minute ago, Sod16 said: He's off more than on. His deficiencies are pretty well baked in. As many have said, he should be a forward. His market value gradually declines from here. We don't have someone to fill his spot, so we would probably have to get a D-man for him, leaving the center and wing problems unsolved. Nothing is baked into a soon-to-be 24-year-old player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 2 minutes ago, The Dude said: Well you lose. You can't provide a link? It didn't happen. That's usually how we roll here. I'll go on saying that didn't happen. You can go on saying you heard it on a podcast. You go your way here. I'll go mine. You can keep being in denial and I'll keep listening to what beat guys say, even if they didn't write it down for you. BTW, here's your link. Edited January 27 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 17 minutes ago, Pete said: You can keep being in denial and I'll keep listening to what beat guys say, even if they didn't write it down for you. BTW, here's your link. Oh, I'll listen to every episode. Thanks. I'm sure it is in there. I heard it once. But in the BS context I already brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 9 minutes ago, The Dude said: Oh, I'll listen to every episode. Thanks. I'm sure it is in there. I heard it once. But in the BS context I already brought up. I mean we're at the point where you don't even care about the truth, you only care about being right. Cool gif though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Pete said: I mean we're at the point where you don't even care about the truth, you only care about being right. Cool gif though. No. I'd actually like to hear what it is you say is being said so I don't have to hear this every time we talk about trading a player you like. You posted a link to a link for Vinces podcast. It is in noway helpful to your cause. There are hours and hours of podcasts to go through. A link to 3 or 4 podcast episodes would be beneficial. I mean, the Rangers themselves have said this and you're the one toting the line. Back it up pleases. Inform us. Gif fuckin rocks bro. Edited January 27 by The Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 8 minutes ago, The Dude said: No. I'd actually like to hear what it is you say is being said so I don't have to hear this every time we talk about trading a player you like. You posted a link to a link for Vinces podcast. It is in noway helpful to your cause. There are hours and hours of podcasts to go through. A link to 3 or 4 podcast episodes would be beneficial. I mean, the Rangers themselves have said this and you're the one toting the line. Back it up pleases. Inform us. Gif fuckin rocks bro. If You expect me to go back to specific podcasts and time code shit for you, you're out of your mind. It's been said more than one time that they are not looking to subtract from the roster right now. If you don't believe that, then don't believe it. I don't really care. All of that will change if they continue to lose and miss the playoffs anyway. Edited January 27 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 3 minutes ago, Pete said: If You expect me to go back to specific podcasts and time code shit for you, you're out of your mind. It's been said more than one time that they are not looking to subtract from the roster right now. If you don't believe that, then don't believe it. I don't really care. All of that will change if they continue to lose and miss the playoffs anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Just now, The Dude said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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