Let's Talk About the Real Issue: Goaltending

[BrooksBurner]

7 hours ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

This is the biggest problem on the team in  11 of 14 losses (79%) the opposition has scored two goals within 4 mins. In 8 of the 14 losses (57%) the opposition has scored two goals within 2 mins.  In 16 of the 40 overall games (40%) the opposition has scored two goals within 4 mins.  
As has been the case for several years the team doesn’t play 60 min games.  Maybe Laviolette should call a timeout after the first goal or the second goal of the game to get the team refocused?  Seems silly but they have to correct this trend.  

2 goals within 2 min in the 3rd to lose.

[RJWantsTheCup]

14 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

2 goals within 2 min in the 3rd to lose.

It’s a common theme with this team.  

[Br4d]

The Rangers are mentally weak on defense at this point.  They don't have the capacity to clamp down when they need too and hold the fort.

 

Also, obviously at this point, the 1 goal game luck has run it's course.  Rangers are 2-3-1 in their last 6 1 goal games after an 11-1-1 start.

[Scott]

 

Edited January 20 by jsrangers

[lefty9]

I am killing the defense before goaltending

[Scott]

19 minutes ago, lefty9 said:

I am killing the defense before goaltending

both imo, it's a bad combination many nights.

 

Edited January 20 by jsrangers

[Richter35]

It seems like the team has a different compete level after Igor gives up a soft one. How many times is a goal against followed quickly by a goal against ?

[Pete]

Bump. 

 

Shesty has the worst SV% of any goaltender with five or more starts in January according to the ESPN broadcast.

 

He is by far the biggest problem on the team. You know why? Because he used to cover up all the problems, and now he can't cover up any problems. 

Edited January 27 by Pete

[Valriera]

While I’m onboard with this being true I don’t think there’s a path here aside from getting Benoit to fix it. Certainly can’t be trading for a goalie rn 

[LindG1000]

Taking the Sergei Bobrovsky path. 

[Keirik]

Sounds like we are saying Shesty is to blame because this core, yet again, doesn't want to listen to another head coach's philosophy and change the overall way they play.

 

Quick hasn't been good in December or January either. This team stopped listening. The point of bringing in Lavy was to have a team play hockey where they didn't need to be bailed out nightly by elite+++ goaltending. 

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Sounds like we are saying Shesty is to blame because this core, yet again, doesn't want to listen to another head coach's philosophy and change the overall way they play.

 

Quick hasn't been good in December or January either. This team stopped listening. The point of bringing in Lavy was to have a team play hockey where they didn't need to be bailed out nightly by elite+++ goaltending. 

Sounds like we're saying if you don't have goaltending you don't have anything. So you can fix whatever you want, but if you don't have a goalie it isn't going to matter.

 

And right now they don't have a goalie. 

Edited January 27 by Pete

[Valriera]

4 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Sounds like we are saying Shesty is to blame because this core, yet again, doesn't want to listen to another head coach's philosophy and change the overall way they play.

 

Quick hasn't been good in December or January either. This team stopped listening. The point of bringing in Lavy was to have a team play hockey where they didn't need to be bailed out nightly by elite+++ goaltending. 

You’re right, but we played elite hockey tonight and lost because of our terrible goaltending. Sure, the team gave up. That’s on them but those are four goals that are routine saveable shots. Maybe one goes in. Maybe. Same story every night with a little shitty defense mixed in.

[Keirik]

59 minutes ago, Pete said:

Bump. 

 

Shesty has the worst SV% of any goaltender with five or more starts in January according to the ESPN broadcast.

 

He is by far the biggest problem on the team. You know why? Because he used to cover up all the problems, and now he can't cover up any problems. 

 

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Sounds like we're saying if you don't have goaltending you don't have anything. So you can fix whatever you want, but if you don't have a goalie it isn't going to matter.

 

And right now they don't have a goalie. 

Nah, doesn't sound like im saying that at all, but the bold sure sounds like you're saying he isn't covering up the real problems of the team. They shouldn't need to have a goalie stand on his head every night to win. Not on this roster. There is no doubt that Shesty should be better. That doesn't mean he's the biggest problem of this team. How many coaches is it now? So far, this team absolutely crumbles when the going gets tough and it has been a problem for years now. They don't handle any adversity at all. The core disappears. 

[Keirik]

6 minutes ago, Valriera said:

You’re right, but we played elite hockey tonight and lost because of our terrible goaltending. Sure, the team gave up. That’s on them but those are four goals that are routine saveable shots. Maybe one goes in. Maybe. Same story every night with a little shitty defense mixed in.

I admist that I didn't see the first goal, but the second goal, while saveable, is still a breakaway after an incredibly dumb soft pass by Miller to a panicked Panarin that held it too long and got his "shot" blocked from a guy close enough to make out with the dude. The next goal was a deflection. Again, i'd love my goalie to make a big save but this team folds faster than an old abused lawn chair. I'm not sure where that was an elite performance for 60. 

[Valriera]

That’s definitely true about the core and none of this is to say it’s all Igor’s fault but now he is part of the problem rather than the solution. I’d be fine if he was neither one

[BrooksBurner]

10 minutes ago, Keirik said:

 

Nah, doesn't sound like im saying that at all, but the bold sure sounds like you're saying he isn't covering up the real problems of the team. They shouldn't need to have a goalie stand on his head every night to win. Not on this roster. There is no doubt that Shesty should be better. That doesn't mean he's the biggest problem of this team. How many coaches is it now? So far, this team absolutely crumbles when the going gets tough and it has been a problem for years now. They don't handle any adversity at all. The core disappears. 

 

Bingo. And it's weird to see advocates for not paying a goalie because a good team doesn't require one (which I agree with), to then go on to blame Shesterkin as the main reason for the team's failures (which is 100% false). He's getting paid $5M so he's not on an anchor contract that prevented them from spending on the rest of the team. The Rangers are 23rd in 5v5 goals for, 16th HDCF. It's not a playoff caliber 5v5 team.

Edited January 27 by BrooksBurner

[The Dude]

So... Do we enter the thought of trading Shesterkin in a huge package with Miller to a team that can offer a decent goalie and a 3C  AND a RW? 

 

This was taboo a few months ago when talks about not wanting his next contract and some people were suggesting a trade. Is it still taboo?

 

Or should I put the Playstation controller down?

Edited January 27 by The Dude

[RichieNextel305]

He got sniped glove high by a 4th line player tonight.

 

Hes been awful.

[JHS]

Igor has been bad- no other way to put it.  He’s not making the big save, he’s letting in weak goals, looks mentally weak and the team is not rallying to help him out.  Thats concerning as well and indicates either they take him for granted or are really selfish hockey players.  Usually teams that know their goalie is struggling try and tighten up simply out of respect for the goalie— that’s not happening here.  
 

Im hoping the next week off really re-focuses and re-motivates this team.  If not this could be another wasted season.

[Gravesy]

So last night you have two redirections from in close. That's not on the goalie. 

The 4th goal is a microcosm of this team and why blaming goaltending is wide of the mark: Barbashev crosses our blueline, our D is backing into Shesterkin instead of challenging and he's free to take his shot. Shesterkin saves and, somehow, Barbashev is allowed to get on his own rebound. The rebound ricochets off the boards and straight back out and the New York Rangers are beaten to the puck for the 3rd time in a space of like 5 seconds, leaving Marchessault with an empty netter. You can blame goaltending if you want to, but you're looking in the wrong place. Even if, like I've said, Shesty is having a down year. 

11 hours ago, Pete said:

You know why? Because he used to cover up all the problems, and now he can't cover up any problems.

I think that's a pretty good way of putting it though. This team has no chance to go deep in the playoffs unless Shesty stands on his head. 

Edited January 27 by Gravesy

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Gravesy said:

So last night you have two redirections from in close. That's not on the goalie. 

The 4th goal is a microcosm of this team and why blaming goaltending is wide of the mark: Barbashev crosses our blueline, our D is backing into Shesterkin instead of challenging and he's free to take his shot. Shesterkin saves and, somehow, Barbashev is allowed to get on his own rebound. The rebound ricochets off the boards and straight back out and the New York Rangers are beaten to the puck for the 3rd time in a space of like 5 seconds, leaving Marchessault with an empty netter. You can blame goaltending if you want to, but you're looking in the wrong place. Even if, like I've said, Shesty is having a down year. 

I think that's a pretty good way of putting it though. This team has no chance to go deep in the playoffs unless Shesty stands on his head. 

They scored 5 goals. Three of them were stoppable and one of them was an empty netter. 

 

Deflections aren't unsaveable shots. He left way too much room on that JAM deflection where he was tied up with Fox. The goalie needs to be up and a little out of the crease so that if a deflection comes, there's not much of an angle to deflect and you're hoping that it hits you. There was a good 4 ft, so lots of angle for deflection. 

[Pete]

10 hours ago, Keirik said:

 

Nah, doesn't sound like im saying that at all, but the bold sure sounds like you're saying he isn't covering up the real problems of the team. They shouldn't need to have a goalie stand on his head every night to win. Not on this roster. There is no doubt that Shesty should be better. That doesn't mean he's the biggest problem of this team. How many coaches is it now? So far, this team absolutely crumbles when the going gets tough and it has been a problem for years now. They don't handle any adversity at all. The core disappears. 

They could fix all the other problems and if Igor still played like this it wouldn't make one bit of difference.

 

This is not a matter of the team hanging him out to dry, this is a matter of him not stopping saveable shots and letting in goals in bunches. 

[Pete]

10 hours ago, The Dude said:

So... Do we enter the thought of trading Shesterkin in a huge package with Miller to a team that can offer a decent goalie and a 3C  AND a RW? 

 

This was taboo a few months ago when talks about not wanting his next contract and some people were suggesting a trade. Is it still taboo?

 

Or should I put the Playstation controller down?

I don't think they're trading him, but I certainly wouldn't sign him for much more than he's making right now. 

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

They could fix all the other problems and if Igor still played like this it wouldn't make one bit of difference.

 

This is not a matter of the team hanging him out to dry, this is a matter of him not stopping saveable shots and letting in goals in bunches.  
 

Of course it would make a difference. It's a huge reason why they brought in a coach with a more defined system for this core to have. Igor covered up everything wrong with them and now that he's playing average, we see what the real problems are. it's still a team with crappy 5 v 5 performance, no defensive structure, all about the pp, and very little fight back when the times get tough. 
 

 You're taking goals in a bubble and not factoring anything else as if the only people on the ice are Igor and the shooter. They may work for breakaways but even then, It's the same defensive breakdown to lead to leaving Igor out to dry while he's struggling. Does he need to be better? Yup. Is he the biggest problem? Nope. But you're entitled to your opinion. 

   Quick is winless in 5 straight starts going back to December. 3 of those starts are sub .880 save %. This team isnt listening to the coach. They aren't even playing a style. They look more Gallant like than with Gallant. Personally, I think they will be fine eventually and I'd rather this happen in January than April, but we shall see.