Seravalli Rangers Paying Attention to Patrick Kane; Sike! No, They Aren't

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, RangersIn7 said:

I’d love nothing more than to see him come in a do great things and be Patrick Kane. 
 

But from what I’ve heard, and from what some others have posted, the 4-6 month recovery window doesn’t seem to do it. 
As of today, he’s 5 months removed from the surgery. Who knows how close he is to actually being able to pass a physical and get medical clearance to actually play. 
 

And now we’ve seen Backstrom come back after it, albeit ahead of schedule which may have been a mistake, and need to step away again.

 

I don’t think it’s a big risk to sign him if they ultimately do that. But they’ve got to be sure he’s healthy and can be at least reasonably effective. 

Yeah, I expect Drury and co. to be smart and diligent and do their homework on this kind of thing. Assuming it happens, he probably won't be cleared to play until closer to Christmas, no? I thought that was the timeframe and to give him a little more recovery time. To me, if he's ready to go, it's absolutely worth it because it's not going to take much for him to come back. Obviously the Rangers will have to make some moves, which they've probably been working on and discussing for awhile now, if I had to guess. I think they have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done.

[RangersIn7]

29 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Yeah, I expect Drury and co. to be smart and diligent and do their homework on this kind of thing. Assuming it happens, he probably won't be cleared to play until closer to Christmas, no? I thought that was the timeframe and to give him a little more recovery time. To me, if he's ready to go, it's absolutely worth it because it's not going to take much for him to come back. Obviously the Rangers will have to make some moves, which they've probably been working on and discussing for awhile now, if I had to guess. I think they have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done.

Well they said 4-6 months.

Had the surgery on June 1st

Today is 5 months. And obviously he’s not playing hockey for anyone, so let’s assume he needs/wants more time. 
It’s a good sign that he’s taking his time and not rushing things. 

 

Im assuming that he probably would need till at least late-November or early December to fully recover. 

Then another stretch of time and practice reps to be game ready, pass a physical, get cleared, all of that. 

 

Long story short, I wouldn’t expect him to play in a game until around Christmas or possibly after the New Year. 
 

So yeah, your timeline is probably pretty close to how it might be. 

[Albatrosss]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

Kane seems like a slam dunk to me. I don’t like it, but it seems pretty guaranteed to happen. I don’t think he gives a shit about the $ figure this year.

same here.  dont like it either all that much but not sure there are other cost effective options

[Br4d]

I think he's only an option if Drury feels like the Rangers are slumping at some point and is worried about his job if the season goes south.  At that point going double or nothing on the vets by bringing in a guy who is 50/50 to crash and burn with the other 50% likely being a play level significantly below expectations might seem like a percentage play.

 

Backstrom played 47 games after returning at a significantly lower level than prior to the surgery.  Now he is away from the game for an indefinite period of time.  Given that he already had fully rehabbed the hip that suggests that it just can't stand up to the rigors of NHL play. 

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Br4d said:

I think he's only an option if Drury feels like the Rangers are slumping at some point and is worried about his job if the season goes south.  At that point going double or nothing on the vets by bringing in a guy who is 50/50 to crash and burn with the other 50% likely being a play level significantly below expectations might seem like a percentage play.

 

Backstrom played 47 games after returning at a significantly lower level than prior to the surgery.  Now he is away from the game for an indefinite period of time.  Given that he already had fully rehabbed the hip that suggests that it just can't stand up to the rigors of NHL play. 

Backstrom came back early though, did he not?

If that’s the case, he didn’t fully recover and fully rehab.

 

Look, Kane is only going to take what will amount to a 1 year deal, prorated, for half the season. And it’s not likely going to be for big money cause pretty much no contender has cap space. 
It’s not a risk in terms of contractual commitment to bring him in.

Its a bit bigger risk in terms of a roster spot, but not huge.

 

If when he is ready, and he’s looking at coming here, you do your due diligence.

Work him out. Have your doctors and medical staff look and evaluate. Put him through a physical.

Trust your medical staff… and DO NOT IGNORE THEM OR THE DATA.

 

If it seems good, sure. Take a shot.

If not, you pass.

 

It’s still down the road a bit too, so there’s likely still some time. 

 

 

 

 

[RichieNextel305]

I just find it a bit odd that Pitlick is being given a “maintenance day” coming off a trip he didn’t play. And then this kind of comes out unintentionally. 

[Br4d]

1 minute ago, RangersIn7 said:

Backstrom came back early though, did he not?

If that’s the case, he didn’t fully recover and fully rehab.

 

Look, Kane is only going to take what will amount to a 1 year deal, prorated, for half the season. And it’s not likely going to be for big money cause pretty much no contender has cap space. 
It’s not a risk in terms of contractual commitment to bring him in.

Its a bit bigger risk in terms of a roster spot, but not huge.

 

If when he is ready, and he’s looking at coming here, you do your due diligence.

Work him out. Have your doctors and medical staff look and evaluate. Put him through a physical.

Trust your medical staff… and DO NOT IGNORE THEM OR THE DATA.

 

If it seems good, sure. Take a shot.

If not, you pass.

 

It’s still down the road a bit too, so there’s likely still some time. 

 

 

 

 

 

All the orthopedic sites say: wait a year before returning to full physical activity.  When you do return stay to non-contact physical activity and be very careful of the non-physical activity that stresses the hip.

 

Nobody has come back to play a full season in the NHL after the hip shaving surgery.

 

This is not surprising because what the surgery involves is having your hip dislocated fully so that all surfaces can be repaired, with some shaving and some artificial buildup.  This does not sound like a surgery that an NHL player could sustain at an advanced age and then return to the ice for productive play.

 

If Kane was 25 maybe I'd give him a chance at being the first to come back but he's 35, like all the other guys who have tried, and I think his chances of being truly successful in a comeback are probably along the 1% lines and that is probably being generous given what we know.

[Sod16]

If they want to sign Kane, does a retirement party for Wheeler count against the cap?

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Sod16 said:

If they want to sign Kane, does a retirement party for Wheeler count against the cap?

He's on the cap no matter what, but it's nothing.

[Scott]

@pete would know most about the surgery.

 

I do know a couple of guys that had it done one in their early 40's and one in their early 50's and their pickleball games were never the same.  I can't imagine the grueling play of a NHL player who relied on his speed and quickness to thrive. The guy would also be getting banged around as well. 

 

Even at league minimum (which is great) most importantly I don't think he would be a piece that would help push this team over the top. That's what matters most at this point to me. Put it this way I would have no fear of him going elsewhere, but that's just me.  I also don't have the sentimental value of him having been my favorite player so maybe that's the only difference in me taking a pass here of being on the hill with Pete.

[Pete]

10 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

@pete would know most about the surgery.

 

I do know a couple of guys that had it done one in their early 40's and one in their early 50's and their pickleball games were never the same.  I can't imagine the grueling play of a NHL player who relied on his speed and quickness to thrive. The guy would also be getting banged around as well. 

 

Even at league minimum (which is great) most importantly I don't think he would be a piece that would help push this team over the top. That's what matters most at this point to me. Put it this way I would have no fear of him going elsewhere, but that's just me.  I also don't have the sentimental value of him having been my favorite player so maybe that's the only difference in me taking a pass here of being on the hill with Pete.

 This info tracks with my experience, overall regarding losing the explosiveness in the first step. It also looks like he came back way to early and just can't keep up. Personally I'm faster and moving better than before my surgery. I was also limping around for a year before even considering surgery, and did a year of PT and holistic treatments that did nothing.

 

Quote

ACCORDING TO MacLELLAN, Backstrom is set to return to the Capitals' lineup within the week, which is remarkable in itself.

 

"I really thought he was going to be out the whole year," MacLellan said. "The optimistic case was six months. All of the doctors [we consulted] -- nobody was really going to commit to six months. Why push it, why not wait out the whole year? But he feels strong. He's pushing as hard as he can. The proof will be in the pudding."

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Pete

[RangersIn7]

30 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

All the orthopedic sites say: wait a year before returning to full physical activity.  When you do return stay to non-contact physical activity and be very careful of the non-physical activity that stresses the hip.

 

Nobody has come back to play a full season in the NHL after the hip shaving surgery.

 

This is not surprising because what the surgery involves is having your hip dislocated fully so that all surfaces can be repaired, with some shaving and some artificial buildup.  This does not sound like a surgery that an NHL player could sustain at an advanced age and then return to the ice for productive play.

 

If Kane was 25 maybe I'd give him a chance at being the first to come back but he's 35, like all the other guys who have tried, and I think his chances of being truly successful in a comeback are probably along the 1% lines and that is probably being generous given what we know.

I know that.

 

But take this into account as well:

 

The worlds best orthopedic surgeons are doing these procedures and setting these timeframes for recovery.

 

These guys are already world class athletes in amazingly good shape and health

 

Most people who have this surgery are significantly older (aged 50+) and aren’t in that kind of shape. 
 

These players have access to medical treatment and facilities and personnel that the average person doesn’t. 

 

Granted this is a VERY new thing for hockey players. Kane is the 3rd to have it.

Backstrom and Hags were the other 2.

 

I don’t love the odds.

Not sure they’re 1%. But I don’t love them.

 

Everyone is different. But it doesn’t cost you anything to look at it 

[knedragon]

Looks to me like Backstrom called it. He said he was gonna go hard on training in the off season and get back to playing shape. Jovanovski played a few games , think it was 30 at a lower level and limited ice time and hung em up. Kessler retired first and is Bilateral now. I just don't see it happening. I certainly would love to see it. This season would be pushing it. 

 Pete who was the surgeon? I'm Bilateral Gross. Was skating at the 11 month mark but never returned to the net. Just hacked it up in the old boys 50 + league last 3 years or so. Benn idle the last 2 months with some ankle stuff.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

I know that.

 

But take this into account as well:

 

The worlds best orthopedic surgeons are doing these procedures and setting these timeframes for recovery.

 

These guys are already world class athletes in amazingly good shape and health

 

Most people who have this surgery are significantly older (aged 50+) and aren’t in that kind of shape. 
 

These players have access to medical treatment and facilities and personnel that the average person doesn’t. 

 

Granted this is a VERY new thing for hockey players. Kane is the 3rd to have it.

Backstrom and Hags were the other 2.

 

I don’t love the odds.

Not sure they’re 1%. But I don’t love them.

 

Everyone is different. But it doesn’t cost you anything to look at it 

Also note, Kane is the lightest player to have this done (Hagelin might have come back, but they eye).

 

Your weight and bone structure matter. I weighed about 158 at the time of the procedure and doctors were thrilled with that, but they had to confirm my pelvis could even support the hardware.

 

To your point, everyone is different. It makes no sense to make assumptions. From my POV, he looked neither quick nor explosive in his PR video, but he has range of motion.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, knedragon said:

Looks to me like Backstrom called it. He said he was gonna go hard on training in the off season and get back to playing shape. Jovanovski played a few games , think it was 30 at a lower level and limited ice time and hung em up. Kessler retired first and is Bilateral now. I just don't see it happening. I certainly would love to see it. This season would be pushing it. 

 Pete who was the surgeon? I'm Bilateral Gross. Was skating at the 11 month mark but never returned to the net. Just hacked it up in the old boys 50 + league last 3 years or so. Benn idle the last 2 months with some ankle stuff.

Nawabi at HSS. I got my right done, but eventually may need the left done.

 

I'm 45 and never felt better. Started skating with a new group of guys and we had light turnout one night so I played a ton and a few of the guys couldn't believe I was 45, much less off a resurfacing, I felt great out there. Need to get that pop back in the first 3 steps, but once I'm at top speed I'm faster than pre-surgery.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Pete

[RangersIn7]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Also note, Kane is the lightest player to have this done (Hagelin might have come back, but they eye).

 

Your weight and bone structure matter. I weighed about 158 at the time of the procedure and doctors were thrilled with that, but they had to confirm my pelvis could even support the hardware.

 

To your point, everyone is different. It makes no sense to make assumptions. From my POV, he looked neither quick nor explosive in his PR video, but he has range of motion.

I didn’t see the PR video… when was it made and released?

 

Id stay any judgement till he’s 6 months removed from the actual surgery and has had a full period of recovery and rehab. 

[Pete]

Just now, RangersIn7 said:

I didn’t see the PR video… when was it made and released?

 

Id stay any judgement till he’s 6 months removed from the actual surgery and has had a full period of recovery and rehab. 

 

 

[knedragon]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

Nawabi at HSS. I got my right done, but eventually may need the left done.

 

I'm 45 and never felt better. Started skating with a new group of guys and we had light turnout one night so I played a ton and a few of the guys couldn't believe I was 45, much less off a resurfacing, I felt great out there. Need to get that pop back in the first 3 steps, but once I'm at top speed I'm faster than pre-surgery.

 

 I was 50 had mine done 2 months apart. Gross does install the post cementless. Definitely lost the first few steps. It's the same on the bicycle. The jump to take off sprinting is gone. I can pedal for a good long ways , 80 miles longest with the hardware and wattage slowly back to where I was before surgery. I was afraid to mind the twine with all the up and down. Still get sore here and there after a long ride or long day at work type stuff but nothing crazy. Good luck with the new hardware! Let's see what happens with 88. If comes on the cheap maybe worth a chance, If he wants a pile of money I say let him walk.

[Pete]

14 minutes ago, knedragon said:

 

 I was 50 had mine done 2 months apart. Gross does install the post cementless. Definitely lost the first few steps. It's the same on the bicycle. The jump to take off sprinting is gone. I can pedal for a good long ways , 80 miles longest with the hardware and wattage slowly back to where I was before surgery. I was afraid to mind the twine with all the up and down. Still get sore here and there after a long ride or long day at work type stuff but nothing crazy. Good luck with the new hardware! Let's see what happens with 88. If comes on the cheap maybe worth a chance, If he wants a pile of money I say let him walk.

I played some goalie before. Can't imagine doing it now. Some butterfly movements would definitely be uncomfortable/come with pressure on the outside hip.

 

Same, GL! Enjoy your life!

[RangersIn7]

32 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

 

Ok

 

So that’s late September about 4 months out of surgery.

A month ago 

 

Lets assume he’s progressing more since then

 

How long has he been skating since the surgery?

[Keirik]

How sad is it that we all finally have to listen to @Pete speak his knowledge? 
 

[Br4d]

56 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

I know that.

 

But take this into account as well:

 

The worlds best orthopedic surgeons are doing these procedures and setting these timeframes for recovery.

 

These guys are already world class athletes in amazingly good shape and health

 

Most people who have this surgery are significantly older (aged 50+) and aren’t in that kind of shape. 
 

These players have access to medical treatment and facilities and personnel that the average person doesn’t. 

 

Granted this is a VERY new thing for hockey players. Kane is the 3rd to have it.

Backstrom and Hags were the other 2.

 

I don’t love the odds.

Not sure they’re 1%. But I don’t love them.

 

Everyone is different. But it doesn’t cost you anything to look at it 

 

Kane is the fifth player to have it.  Ed Jovanoski in 2013 and Ryan Kesler in 2019.

 

Nobody has come back ok after the surgery.  Two players have tried and then "stepped away from hockey" after less than a season of play.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Br4d said:

 

Kane is the fifth player to have it.  Ed Jovanoski in 2013 and Ryan Kesler in 2019.

 

Nobody has come back ok after the surgery.  Two players have tried and then "stepped away from hockey" after less than a season of play.

Jovo was 39 and they bought out the last year of his deal, so he didn't go out on his own accord.

 

This would be different.

[Br4d]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Jovo was 39 and they bought out the last year of his deal, so he didn't go out on his own accord.

 

This would be different.

 

I just don't see how it would be different.

 

Even if it was ok to play hockey recreationally, where you didn't get pounded a few times a game, how many people play 80 games of recreational hockey over a 6 month period?

 

All of the indicators (and the professional advice) suggest that having your hip resurfaced is a likely career-ending event and all the evidence so far bears that out.

[RangersIn7]

16 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Kane is the fifth player to have it.  Ed Jovanoski in 2013 and Ryan Kesler in 2019.

 

Nobody has come back ok after the surgery.  Two players have tried and then "stepped away from hockey" after less than a season of play.

Forgot about Jovo and Kesler cause it’s not at all that recent.

 

Again… agreed that the odds are against him and it’s not in his favor… I’ve said that already.

 

But… it costs zero to take a look and kick the tires. 
 

Also, 50 years ago, Tommy John’s career was over…. Then he pitched another 15 years