2022-23 Off-season Thread: Endless Pain, Hatred, and Rage ... Also Boredom

[RangersIn7]

2 hours ago, Long live the King said:

 

They're not slow.  They played slow because they had to think too much.  That's been addressed. 

 

Even if the kid line stays together, EV TOI is already pretty even.  There's room to adjust the PP units to get them more opportunities.  I wouldn't mind:

 

            CK

Zib - Chytil - Kakko 

            Fox

 

                     Laf

Panarin - Trocheck - Wheeler

   Jones/Gustavsson/Miller

 

Use both units.  You can load up if you need to situationally.

 

Cuylle has a shot to make the team and out play Pitlik.  Jones will have a shot to make the team.  Robertson isn't good enough.  Othmann will be better off with a year in the A, but if he plays well enough there’s room for him to earn a spot.

 

 

I agree.

 

I don’t think that there’s some egregious deficiency in team speed. 
 

Nor do they lack the talent. 
 

Just need coach/system to get the most out of them.

 

Weve seen them play plenty of fast and skilled games over the past couple of years and win many of them. 
 

They just looked lost out there too many nights under Gallant. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

I disagree with parts, but your overall message is something I can agree with.  

 

Everyone said Gorton got lucky with his draft picks and certain free agents falling in his lap. 

 

But seriously with the luck Drury has had with players landing in his lap for nothing.  Tarasenko,  Kane. Wheeler, Gustafsson and this entire roster of quality players. He got to hire one of the winningest coaches in recent years, but was torn on the decision for months.. He just fired a coach who had great regular season numbers and a trip to the ECF.

 

When exactly are we going to see the fruits of Drurys mastermind of a plan? Because so far, it's luck, luck, luck, luck. 

I think the mistake you're making here is that Gorton got lucky while simultaneously overpaying. Trouba wanted to come here... But we didn't have to give him that contract. Fox wanted to come here, but we didn't have to give the extra second (although still not what I would call an overpayment right now). Drury might be able to find the players who want to come here, but he's not giving away the farm to bring them here. He's also not overpaying for players who actually want to be here. 

 

There's only been a handful of moves that could be judged right now as mistakes. He's done a phenomenal job so far.

[RangersIn7]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think the mistake you're making here is that Gorton got lucky while simultaneously overpaying. Trouba wanted to come here... But we didn't have to give him that contract. Fox wanted to come here, but we didn't have to give the extra second (although still not what I would call an overpayment right now). Drury might be able to find the players who want to come here, but he's not giving away the farm to bring them here. He's also not overpaying for players who actually want to be here. 

 

There's only been a handful of moves that could be judged right now as mistakes. He's done a phenomenal job so far.

Gorton did not do a good job. 
 

Butchered the McDonagh/Miller trade, got lucky in the draft lottery, and the overpaid for Trouba. 
 

Plus… ya know… those other 2 top-10 picks that completely shit the bed. 
 

But hey… at least now he’s running another team in the East. 

[4EverRangerFrank]

I’m feeling better about our boys now. Drury added some missing pieces while spending little money (I know, we broke!) You have to think that one or more of our young guns FINALLY has put a bullet in the chamber over the summer. We cannot have all these guys just be ‘meh’ - something has to turn right for us. We might be pleasantly surprised come October. LGR!

Edited July 3, 2023 by 4EverRangerFrank

[The Dude]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

I think the mistake you're making here is that Gorton got lucky while simultaneously overpaying. Trouba wanted to come here... But we didn't have to give him that contract. Fox wanted to come here, but we didn't have to give the extra second (although still not what I would call an overpayment right now). Drury might be able to find the players who want to come here, but he's not giving away the farm to bring them here. He's also not overpaying for players who actually want to be here. 

 

There's only been a handful of moves that could be judged right now as mistakes. He's done a phenomenal job so far.

What I'm getting at, is that..... so far, there's nothing of his here that points to the future. 

 

His stamps are really just patchwork with zero lasting effect on the future.  Granted,  it's only been 2 seasons as the GM. But he hasn't really brought in anyone that changes what Gorton had lined up already.  Unless you want to count Goodrow, Nemeth , Reaves and.... and uhhh Vesey.

 

Bringing in a bunch of guys that wanted to come here anyway for a short time, while not overpaying  isn't that great of an accomplishment. 

 

I mean, he's done well,  but It's not a lot and it's not something nobody else could have done.

 

You'd think he changed the makeup of the team, to make it different than what was left for him. It's the same team. Just adding an subtracting  2 RWs every year for a short term solution.  

 

As for contracts. Well,  he dumped Buchnevich, with the excuse of not being able to afford him.  Then traded for Goodrows rights and gave him a Trouba like ridiculous contract and brought in Nemeth (on another bad contract) as a supposed mentor for Lundkvist, whome they traded months later.

 

Now they wish they could get out of the Goodrow contract.  Have gotten rid of Nemeth and need a Buchnevich.  

 

I'm thinking Drury has wool pulled over a lot of people's eyes. He's not terrible. I just don't think he's as good as he gets credit for.  He's really done very little.  Every piece that is important here, is still a Gorton player. 

 

If they don't win this year or come close, I gotta wonder if he does anything at all besides extend the kids and spend on a FA. When he should probably start tearing it down to the studs and making it NOT Gortons roster. 

[4EverRangerFrank]

^IF Dolan keeps him around. 

[The Dude]

4 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Gorton did not do a good job. 
 

Butchered the McDonagh/Miller trade, got lucky in the draft lottery, and the overpaid for Trouba. 
 

Plus… ya know… those other 2 top-10 picks that completely shit the bed. 
 

But hey… at least now he’s running another team in the East. 

The roster you have watched the last 2 seasons and going into this season is literally Gortons roster.  With scrap heap players sprinkled in. 

 

There's zero additions for the future, here and now that can be credited to Drury. 

 

Gorton definitely overpaid on a few current players here. He lost the shit out of the McDonagh trade. But every player worth a damn on this roster, was brought here by him. All of em. 

 

Maybe it's too early to expect massive change from Drury. But Gorton and JD were supposedly let go because the Rangers were too easy to play against.  2 years later, the same 7 forwards are still the focal point for the team.  Where's the change? Where's the fix? Its been patchwork. I guess he gets credit for that? OK. 

[RangersIn7]

9 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The roster you have watched the last 2 seasons and going into this season is literally Gortons roster.  With scrap heap players sprinkled in. 

 

There's zero additions for the future, here and now that can be credited to Drury. 

 

Gorton definitely overpaid on a few current players here. He lost the shit out of the McDonagh trade. But every player worth a damn on this roster, was brought here by him. All of em. 

 

Maybe it's too early to expect massive change from Drury. But Gorton and JD were supposedly let go because the Rangers were too easy to play against.  2 years later, the same 7 forwards are still the focal point for the team.  Where's the change? Where's the fix? Its been patchwork. I guess he gets credit for that? OK. 

That’s not lost on me. Not at all. 
And I’m not saying he didn’t get anything right. 
Just that his overall performance is would slide on the bad side of things. 
 

But… you wanna be honest… let’s be honest then.
 

He got awfully lucky on a lot of it. That’s irrefutable and undeniable fact. 

I don’t see shrewdness. I see good fortune. 
It’s at best a mixed bag. 
 

And what major change is it that you’re wanting? And why? 

 

Theyll go into this season as a cup contender once again. With a very good roster that’s among the league’s best. After 2 straight excellent regular seasons and a run to the ECF. 
 

What exactly are you looking for?

Im asking

Edited July 3, 2023 by RangersIn7

[Butcher Icebone]

16 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The roster you have watched the last 2 seasons and going into this season is literally Gortons roster.  With scrap heap players sprinkled in. 

 

There's zero additions for the future, here and now that can be credited to Drury. 

 

Gorton definitely overpaid on a few current players here. He lost the shit out of the McDonagh trade. But every player worth a damn on this roster, was brought here by him. All of em. 

 

Maybe it's too early to expect massive change from Drury. But Gorton and JD were supposedly let go because the Rangers were too easy to play against.  2 years later, the same 7 forwards are still the focal point for the team.  Where's the change? Where's the fix? Its been patchwork. I guess he gets credit for that? OK. 

 

Drury is in a tough spot because this year we are still in contender mode with a vezina caliber goalie in his prime. So he kinda has no choice but to keep it together and fill in pieces as needed and hope we can raise the cup.

 

JD/Gorton had the luxury of “the letter”, which basically gave the approval to blow everything up, retool and rebuild.

 

If we bomb this year and Kakko/Laf/Miller make no progress I am honestly fine with admitting we peaked, unload whatever we can and try a proper rebuild.

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Butcher Icebone said:

 

Drury is in a tough spot because this year we are still in contender mode with a vezina caliber goalie in his prime. So he kinda has no choice but to keep it together and fill in pieces as needed and hope we can raise the cup.

 

JD/Gorton had the luxury of “the letter”, which basically gave the approval to blow everything up, retool and rebuild.

 

If we bomb this year and Kakko/Laf/Miller make no progress I am honestly fine with admitting we peaked, unload whatever we can and try a proper rebuild.

They’ll be riding this out for 2 more seasons, and perhaps into a 3rd. 

[BrooksBurner]

18 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The roster you have watched the last 2 seasons and going into this season is literally Gortons roster.  With scrap heap players sprinkled in. 

 

There's zero additions for the future, here and now that can be credited to Drury. 

 

Gorton definitely overpaid on a few current players here. He lost the shit out of the McDonagh trade. But every player worth a damn on this roster, was brought here by him. All of em. 

 

Maybe it's too early to expect massive change from Drury. But Gorton and JD were supposedly let go because the Rangers were too easy to play against.  2 years later, the same 7 forwards are still the focal point for the team.  Where's the change? Where's the fix? Its been patchwork. I guess he gets credit for that? OK. 

Right, and the same guys trashing Gorton are the same guys who think the core he put together can win the Cup. It’s very two faced.

 

The fact of the matter is, calling Gorton a bad GM is revisionist history. The only move that met fairly strong criticism in real time was Trouba’s $ amount. Not the choice to get Trouba. Just the $ amount being like 20% too high.

 

Drury has made a couple of nice in-season trades, but outside of that the Ls and criticism in real time have piled up fast and furious. He deserves credit for getting decent quality with the cap restraints this year, but choosing to operate under the cap restraints are also half his fault. So, hit and miss at the same time.

[RangersIn7]

6 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Right, and the same guys trashing Gorton are the same guys who think the core he put together can win the Cup. It’s very two faced.

 

The fact of the matter is, calling Gorton a bad GM is revisionist history. The only move that met fairly strong criticism in real time was Trouba’s $ amount. Not the choice to get Trouba. Just the $ amount being like 20% too high.

 

Drury has made a couple of nice in-season trades, but outside of that the Ls and criticism in real time have piled up fast and furious. He deserves credit for getting decent quality with the cap restraints this year, but choosing to operate under the cap restraints are also half his fault. So, hit and miss at the same time.

Not trashing the guy.

Just saying the job he did isn’t a result of him being some highly effective, brilliant and creative GM.

 
The 3 best players on the roster:

Fox- forced his way here.

Panarin- wanted to be here

Igor- not drafted on Gorton’s watch

 

I totally give him credit on getting Mika, and drafting Chytil, Schneider, and Miller. 

100% on that.

 

 

Kreider was already here

Trouba wanted here and nowhere else, and he gives him far too much money.

Laf and Kakko are a product of pure luck. 
And theres no shortage of people calling them busts as of today. 
 

But the fumbling of the McD/Miller deal and the 2 picks of Lias and Kravtsov… bad bad bad grades on all of that. 
And that was the top of his batting order in a rebuild man. 
We can throw the Shattenkirk signing in there as well. 
 

So yeah… there’s some successes. Also some pretty bad failures. And a lot of very fortunate breaks. 
 

Id say overall, as a GM, it’s a negative. 

[Pete]

59 minutes ago, The Dude said:

What I'm getting at, is that..... so far, there's nothing of his here that points to the future. 

 

His stamps are really just patchwork with zero lasting effect on the future.  Granted,  it's only been 2 seasons as the GM. But he hasn't really brought in anyone that changes what Gorton had lined up already.  Unless you want to count Goodrow, Nemeth , Reaves and.... and uhhh Vesey.

 

Bringing in a bunch of guys that wanted to come here anyway for a short time, while not overpaying  isn't that great of an accomplishment. 

 

I mean, he's done well,  but It's not a lot and it's not something nobody else could have done.

 

You'd think he changed the makeup of the team, to make it different than what was left for him. It's the same team. Just adding an subtracting  2 RWs every year for a short term solution.  

 

As for contracts. Well,  he dumped Buchnevich, with the excuse of not being able to afford him.  Then traded for Goodrows rights and gave him a Trouba like ridiculous contract and brought in Nemeth (on another bad contract) as a supposed mentor for Lundkvist, whome they traded months later.

 

Now they wish they could get out of the Goodrow contract.  Have gotten rid of Nemeth and need a Buchnevich.  

 

I'm thinking Drury has wool pulled over a lot of people's eyes. He's not terrible. I just don't think he's as good as he gets credit for.  He's really done very little.  Every piece that is important here, is still a Gorton player. 

 

If they don't win this year or come close, I gotta wonder if he does anything at all besides extend the kids and spend on a FA. When he should probably start tearing it down to the studs and making it NOT Gortons roster. 

I'm not going to pick through this entire post, but you've got some timeline mix ups on who signed who.

 

Secondly the team he inherited was already a pretty good team. There's no reason for him to make major moves. There's nothing that points to tomorrow because they're trying to win now.

 

I think looking at Trouba contract vs Zibs is proof enough that Drury is doing a good job, a better job than Gorton, and not something anyone else can do or Gorton would have been doing it. 

[siddious]

54 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm not going to pick through this entire post, but you've got some timeline mix ups on who signed who.

 

Secondly the team he inherited was already a pretty good team. There's no reason for him to make major moves. There's nothing that points to tomorrow because they're trying to win now.

 

I think looking at Trouba contract vs Zibs is proof enough that Drury is doing a good job, a better job than Gorton, and not something anyone else can do or Gorton would have been doing it. 

Also hard to make changes when half your team has NMC’s in their contract 

[Cash or Czech]

Max Domi to Toronto, 1 year $3mil per capfriendly

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

That’s not lost on me. Not at all. 
And I’m not saying he didn’t get anything right. 
Just that his overall performance is would slide on the bad side of things. 
 

But… you wanna be honest… let’s be honest then.
 

He got awfully lucky on a lot of it. That’s irrefutable and undeniable fact. 

I don’t see shrewdness. I see good fortune. 
It’s at best a mixed bag. 
 

And what major change is it that you’re wanting? And why? 

 

Theyll go into this season as a cup contender once again. With a very good roster that’s among the league’s best. After 2 straight excellent regular seasons and a run to the ECF. 
 

What exactly are you looking for?

Im asking

That is refutable. He got lucky with the Lafrenière pick , Fox wanting to come here annnd maybe Panarin wanting to come here.  Everyone shits on Trouba, so who cares about that "luck".

 

He made trades and drafted the rest except for Kreider and Shesterkin. He transitioned the team into the product it is today. He made changes.  

 

I don't recall saying Gorton was shrewd.  I was just saying Drury hasn't put his own stamp on this team. It's the same roster minus Strome. 

 

There's plenty of changes that could have been made.  Like getting a RW worth a damn. Getting a real coach after firing Quinn. Making sure you're Implementing your 1st and 2nd OA picks into your team plan. Actually making the team harder to play against, by getting appropriate top line players, capable of doing just that. Don't give out another Trouba like overpaying contract with a no trade clause. Make a change to the roster that got the last GM fired. 

 

I don't understand how Gorton is just lucky, while Drury gets all the credit for riding out Gortons roster for a 3rd straight season. 

 

Neither are that great. One made actual changes though. 

[Long live the King]

16 minutes ago, The Dude said:

That is refutable. He got lucky with the Lafrenière pick , Fox wanting to come here annnd maybe Panarin wanting to come here.  Everyone shits on Trouba, so who cares about that "luck".

 

He made trades and drafted the rest except for Kreider and Shesterkin. He transitioned the team into the product it is today. He made changes.  

 

I don't recall saying Gorton was shrewd.  I was just saying Drury hasn't put his own stamp on this team. It's the same roster minus Strome. 

 

There's plenty of changes that could have been made.  Like getting a RW worth a damn. Getting a real coach after firing Quinn. Making sure you're Implementing your 1st and 2nd OA picks into your team plan. Actually making the team harder to play against, by getting appropriate top line players, capable of doing just that. Don't give out another Trouba like overpaying contract with a no trade clause. Make a change to the roster that got the last GM fired. 

 

I don't understand how Gorton is just lucky, while Drury gets all the credit for riding out Gortons roster for a 3rd straight season. 

 

Neither are that great. One made actual changes though. 

 

Seems like your knock against Drury is repeating that he hasn't moved players with NMCs since you can't point to a bad move or signing.

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

I'm not going to pick through this entire post, but you've got some timeline mix ups on who signed who.

 

Secondly the team he inherited was already a pretty good team. There's no reason for him to make major moves. There's nothing that points to tomorrow because they're trying to win now.

 

I think looking at Trouba contract vs Zibs is proof enough that Drury is doing a good job, a better job than Gorton, and not something anyone else can do or Gorton would have been doing it. 

? Drury became GM in May of 21. Goodrow was acquired and signed that July. Nemeth also signed that July. Timeline is correct. Only thing wrong is Buchnevich was actually traded AFTER they signed Goodrow . Making the Goodrow signing even more stupid. He essentially made it so that he couldn't sign the PPG player with a 200' game. 

 

Gorton couldn't do what Drury did?  Which is, keep what he put together..... like Drury did?  Why's that? The whole firing was just strange.  There was no shift into some other direction.  So, what was the issue? Gorton didn't want to give Ryan Reaves millions? That's a bad thing? Didn't want to overpay contractually on Goodrow? Aren't we seeing that that was the correct move right now? 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by The Dude

[The Dude]

42 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

Seems like your knock against Drury is repeating that he hasn't moved players with NMCs since you can't point to a bad move or signing.

I did though. Keep Buchnevich.  Don't sign Goodrow and Nemeth. 

 

That's 3 things right off the jump. It solves 2 current issues.  Top 6 RW in his prime and signed to a good contract. The other issue is trying to unload the Goodrow contract that they want gone 2 years into it. One of two players he picked (over the homegrown better all around player), is detrimental to the teams build, and the other was gone from the team 4-5 months later. 

 

I keep hearing how easy it is to trade players with NMCs... But it's an excuse for Drury. 

 

This isn't Drurys team and he has yet to make an actual change to it besides taking away Panarins center that he had great chemistry with. Oh. Let's talk about that great contract too. Trocheck.  7 years. 5.6 mill. 12 team no trade. That's a good one? 

 

Kadri got 7 mill late that summer. The Rangers couldn't scrounge up 1.4 mill more to get the better player? Guy went to shithole Calgary because Drury signed Trocheck on day 1 of free agency. 

 

Kadri would have changed the makeup of the top 6. Instead we have Trocheck.  

 

Could have 

 

Kreider- Zibanejad- Buchnevich 

Panarin- Kadri- Kakko 

Lafrenière- Chytil- Whoever

Whoever- Whoever- Josh's mom/my mom

 

and it's already a better team. 

 

So, you know what. I'm wrong.

 

Drury did put his stamp on this team. He got rid of 2 very useful players and added 2 more bad saddle contracts.  He's done great. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by The Dude

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, siddious said:

Also hard to make changes when half your team has NMC’s in their contract 

Something both GMs felt they had to give to everyone.  Gorton was just as bad as Drury. 

 

Gorton- Panarin, Trouba , Fox, Kreider, Shesterkin (kicks in this season)

 

Drury- Zibanejad, Goodrow, Nemeth,  Trocheck. 

 

I kinda think one made better decisions on who to hand them out to. 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Cash or Czech said:

Max Domi to Toronto, 1 year $3mil per capfriendly

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

9 hours ago, The Dude said:

Gorton- Panarin, Trouba , Fox, Kreider, Shesterkin (kicks in this season)

 

Drury- Zibanejad, Goodrow, Nemeth,  Trocheck. 

Fox was Drury I think.

 

But you're totally right, Drury is no better with the NTC/NMC than Gorton and co was.

[siddious]

6 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Fox was Drury I think.

 

But you're totally right, Drury is no better with the NTC/NMC than Gorton and co was.

Arguably Fox and maybe Igor are the two guys you give it to

[RangersIn7]

11 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Fox was Drury I think.

 

But you're totally right, Drury is no better with the NTC/NMC than Gorton and co was.

 

4 minutes ago, siddious said:

Arguably Fox and maybe Igor are the two guys you give it to

I get the issues with NTC/NMC.

 

But what do you do?

 

Its presumably not coming from the GM, but the player and agent. Guys want them. Especially if they have a family or plan on starting one. 
 

So then what?

 

Youre trying to sign a player that you feel you really need, but you take a hard line?

 

”Hey player X, we love you and want you here. But we aren’t giving you any trade protection.”

 

”So you want me here. But you can trade me at any time? To any place.”

 

”That’s correct.”

 

”Cool. See you when I see you.”

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

5 minutes ago, siddious said:

Arguably Fox and maybe Igor are the two guys you give it to

Shesterkin, Fox, Mika and Panarin are the only ones that should have one.

 

I can understand why they gave to Kreider and Trouba when they signed, also Trocheck who signed as a UFA can get a modified one, but Nemeth, Goodrow etc. should never have gotten one.