Should the Rangers Consider Trading K'Andre Miller?

[jsm7302]

12 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

Ottawa wanted more consistency too, so they traded 23 year old 50 pt Zibanejad and a 2nd for Brassard.

Valid point. For sure. Does he have another level he could attain? Maybe. What's your thoughts on his salary? What number?

 

You'd be willing to sell Miller to keep Chytil?

 

I hate to see any of the kids go and Miller is my favorite on the roster honestly BUT I also get why we need to cut ties with some to build the team. I feel like you may be right here.

 

[Sod16]

I believe they have to consider trading Miller while his stock is high, but the problem with trading him while he is still an RFA is that trading partners may not want to take the risk of difficulty signing him.  They will not know whether he's aiming for a long term deal or a bridge.  Once they get him, he'd have them over a barrel, just as Trouba did with us.

[Pete]

31 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Valid point. For sure. Does he have another level he could attain? Maybe. What's your thoughts on his salary? What number?

 

You'd be willing to sell Miller to keep Chytil?

 

I hate to see any of the kids go and Miller is my favorite on the roster honestly BUT I also get why we need to cut ties with some to build the team. I feel like you may be right here.

 

Miller is a 40 point defenseman who gets no PP time. People don't realize how rare that is.

 

Miller can be taught to defend. You may be able to teach Chytil not to be completely useless when not scoring goals, but can't teach him to not get hurt.

 

This team has choices to make. You can't pay everyone and they can't pay Chytil much more than $4M. Nor should they. 

 

Miller as an asset has much more value than Chytil. Miller has been playing defense for 5 years, not 15 like many of his peers. He's just scratching the surface and is no worse defensively than anyone not named Lindgren.

 

Simply put, Miller shortcomings can be coached out. Chytils... Not so much. 

[LindG1000]

I'm not sure we should be treating this as a choice anymore. Both of them are streaky players with significant potential, and I think we're at the point where the team would be wise to avoid the big contract...and so would the player.

[BrooksBurner]

2 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

Valid point. For sure. Does he have another level he could attain? Maybe. What's your thoughts on his salary? What number?

 

You'd be willing to sell Miller to keep Chytil?

 

I hate to see any of the kids go and Miller is my favorite on the roster honestly BUT I also get why we need to cut ties with some to build the team. I feel like you may be right here.

 

 

That's just one of a multitude of indirect benefits. I'm willing to sell Miller primarily to improve the blue line defensively. He's got some good offensive tools, but I just don't see any strides being made defensively. If anything, I think he's gone backwards there, which means he's not learning. As a converted forward, there's a real risk that defensive positioning simply just won't click with him. The team being so offensively talented up front (which is a great thing) needs a more stable, reliable approach on the blue line.

 

 

[Long live the King]

23 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

That's just one of a multitude of indirect benefits. I'm willing to sell Miller primarily to improve the blue line defensively. He's got some good offensive tools, but I just don't see any strides being made defensively. If anything, I think he's gone backwards there, which means he's not learning. As a converted forward, there's a real risk that defensive positioning simply just won't click with him. The team being so offensively talented up front (which is a great thing) needs a more stable, reliable approach on the blue line.

 

 

 

This is less Miller and more coaching.  Everyone hated Skjei too.  Seems to have been a Quinn thing more than a Skjei thing.

[Br4d]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Miller is a 40 point defenseman who gets no PP time. People don't realize how rare that is.

 

Miller can be taught to defend. You may be able to teach Chytil not to be completely useless when not scoring goals, but can't teach him to not get hurt.

 

 

 

Miller is definitely a bit of a unicorn.  Huge and soft with good puck skills and what will eventually be a booming shot when he gets the confidence to use it.

 

What the Rangers need to do is figure out how to get him to use his size more effectively to dictate on the ice.  He probably is reluctant to use his physical attributes because of the system he grew up in which would have put a premium on keeping him from beating on smaller white kids.  He needs to figure out how to ditch that conditioning and really use his weight.

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Miller is definitely a bit of a unicorn.  Huge and soft with good puck skills and what will eventually be a booming shot when he gets the confidence to use it.

 

What the Rangers need to do is figure out how to get him to use his size more effectively to dictate on the ice.  He probably is reluctant to use his physical attributes because of the system he grew up in which would have put a premium on keeping him from beating on smaller white kids.  He needs to figure out how to ditch that conditioning and really use his weight.

 

I... what?

[Rizz GAWD Lav No Cap FrFr]

9 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Miller is definitely a bit of a unicorn.  Huge and soft with good puck skills and what will eventually be a booming shot when he gets the confidence to use it.

 

What the Rangers need to do is figure out how to get him to use his size more effectively to dictate on the ice.  He probably is reluctant to use his physical attributes because of the system he grew up in which would have put a premium on keeping him from beating on smaller white kids.  He needs to figure out how to ditch that conditioning and really use his weight.

Dawg are you okay lmao.

[BrooksBurner]

21 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

This is less Miller and more coaching.  Everyone hated Skjei too.  Seems to have been a Quinn thing more than a Skjei thing.

Are you implying that Brady Skjei is now good, rather than being carried by an analytics darling of a team?

[Cash or Czech]

19 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

Miller is definitely a bit of a unicorn.  Huge and soft with good puck skills and what will eventually be a booming shot when he gets the confidence to use it.

 

What the Rangers need to do is figure out how to get him to use his size more effectively to dictate on the ice.  He probably is reluctant to use his physical attributes because of the system he grew up in which would have put a premium on keeping him from beating on smaller white kids.  He needs to figure out how to ditch that conditioning and really use his weight.

 

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Are you implying that Brady Skjei is now good, rather than being carried by an analytics darling of a team?

Skjei was always good. But like many defensemen on the Rangers... Not good enough for the fan base. 

[BrooksBurner]

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I... what?

If I may try to translate. I think he’s trying to say that Miller could have experienced some negative racial biases in his community growing up, that may have impacted his desire to play a more physical game to avoid being labeled something unfairly based on the color of his skin.

 

This is the kind of deep stuff that gets dragged out after months of therapy upon evaluating experiences from a person’s youth. It doesn’t seem that outlandish to be possible in a white dominated sport and culture, with a history of some level of racism, but there’s no factual basis to think it’s true this was Miller’s experience. Some guys are just gentle giants…Marc Staal.

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Skjei was always good. But like many defensemen on the Rangers... Not good enough for the fan base. 

Skjei stunk defensively. He would dazzle with a strong end to end rush at times. It got him that initial large contract with the Rangers. Let’s not repeat that mistake with Miller.

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

If I may try to translate. I think he’s trying to say that Miller could have experienced some negative racial biases in his community growing up, that may have impacted his desire to play a more physical game to avoid being labeled something unfairly based on the color of his skin.

 

This is the kind of deep stuff that gets dragged out after months of therapy upon evaluating experiences from a person’s youth. It doesn’t seem that outlandish to be possible in a white dominated sport and culture, with a history of some level of racism, but there’s no factual basis to think it’s true this was Miller’s experience. Some guys are just gentle giants…Marc Staal.

 

Sure, entirely possible, but I don't really see why we're trying to eDiagnose him through our television screens. Hell, I'm still waiting on that McDonagh "mean streak" to develop. Like you said, some guys are just gentle giants.

[Long live the King]

12 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Skjei stunk defensively. He would dazzle with a strong end to end rush at times. It got him that initial large contract with the Rangers. Let’s not repeat that mistake with Miller.

 

26 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Are you implying that Brady Skjei is now good, rather than being carried by an analytics darling of a team?

 

He plays over 20 minutes a night for Carolina.  That's not the team carrying him.  That's coaching and an effective defensive system allowing a player to thrive.

 

Imagine what coaching and an effective defensive system could do for the Miller-Trouba pairing.

[BrooksBurner]

10 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

 

He plays over 20 minutes a night for Carolina.  That's not the team carrying him.  That's coaching and an effective defensive system allowing a player to thrive.

 

Imagine what coaching and an effective defensive system could do for the Miller-Trouba pairing.

DeAngelo with a career 2.7 GA/60 and 2.93 xGA/60, was magically a 1.98 GA/60 and 2.59 xGA/60 with Carolina. That’s not because he got good at defense. Neither has Skjei.

 

Agree about a system, but the beauty about having that is you don’t need to dump all that money into defensemen. They can achieve the same result or better defensively with a cheaper option. The Rangers can’t keep spending on defense in a forward-driven league.

Edited March 14, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[Long live the King]

5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

DeAngelo with a career 2.7 GA/60 and 2.93 xGA/60, was magically a 1.98 GA/60 and 2.59 xGA/60 with Carolina. That’s not because he got good at defense. Neither has Skjei.

 

Agree about a system, but the beauty about having that is you don’t need to dump all that money into defensemen. They can achieve the same result or better defensively with a cheaper option. The Rangers can’t keep spending on defense in a forward-driven league.

 

What's ADA have to do with this?  He was a PP specialist and was heavily sheltered 5v5.  Meanwhile, with their internal cap, Carolina gave up a first round pick to take on Skjei and his cap hit instead of finding some cheap bum to be a "product of the system".

[Pete]

6 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

DeAngelo with a career 2.7 GA/60 and 2.93 xGA/60, was magically a 1.98 GA/60 and 2.59 xGA/60 with Carolina. That’s not because he got good at defense. Neither has Skjei.

 

Agree about a system, but the beauty about having that is you don’t need to dump all that money into defensemen. They can achieve the same result or better defensively with a cheaper option. The Rangers can’t keep spending on defense in a forward-driven league.

ADA was getting 70% O zone starts while Skjei was 50/50. You can't even compare the 2, nor can you compare Skjei to Miller. Miller is still learning the position, period. Forget that he's doing it at the NHL level and just keeps getting better every year. And let's not forget he's weighed down by Trouba.

[BrooksBurner]

6 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

What's ADA have to do with this?  He was a PP specialist and was heavily sheltered 5v5.  Meanwhile, with their internal cap, Carolina gave up a first round pick to take on Skjei and his cap hit instead of finding some cheap bum to be a "product of the system".

He’s another example of how they hide bad defensive players. Like Skjei. DeAngelo played 20 a night there too. Fancy that.

[BrooksBurner]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

ADA was getting 70% O zone starts while Skjei was 50/50. You can't even compare the 2, nor can you compare Skjei to Miller. Miller is still learning the position, period. Forget that he's doing it at the NHL level and just keeps getting better every year. And let's not forget he's weighed down by Trouba.

 

A converted forward learning the position on a team with low expectations was passable for the first couple of seasons on an ELC. I don't want the Rangers to pay Miller to see if he can learn the basics, because so far he hasn't after 3 seasons. The NHL isn't a development league.

[Br4d]

1 hour ago, BrooksBurner said:

If I may try to translate. I think he’s trying to say that Miller could have experienced some negative racial biases in his community growing up, that may have impacted his desire to play a more physical game to avoid being labeled something unfairly based on the color of his skin.

 

This is the kind of deep stuff that gets dragged out after months of therapy upon evaluating experiences from a person’s youth. It doesn’t seem that outlandish to be possible in a white dominated sport and culture, with a history of some level of racism, but there’s no factual basis to think it’s true this was Miller’s experience. Some guys are just gentle giants…Marc Staal.

 

If you're big and white and grinding on people at 13 odds are pretty good you have some other kids parents pissed at you.

 

If you're big and black and doing that in a mostly white scholastic system odds are you have a perpetual complaint going against you.

[Pete]

38 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

A converted forward learning the position on a team with low expectations was passable for the first couple of seasons on an ELC. I don't want the Rangers to pay Miller to see if he can learn the basics, because so far he hasn't after 3 seasons. The NHL isn't a development league.

He's not developing. He's learning. By your logic, they shouldn't have anyone on the team under 25.

 

You're still dodging that on a team full of defenseman who can't defend in their own zone (sans Lindgren), you're singling out Miller simply because you want to keep Chytil.

 

They will miss Miller much more than Chytil, now and later. This team needs defensemen who can beat the forecheck with their legs and the pass. Their list of defensemen who don't go boards and out is currently:

• Fox
• Miller

You can't replace his offense, but you can work with him on his defense.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Pete

[Long live the King]

49 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

He’s another example of how they hide bad defensive players. Like Skjei. DeAngelo played 20 a night there too. Fancy that.

 

DeAngelo played over 3 minutes a game on the PP, in addition to the zone starts @Pete mentioned.

[Sod16]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Skjei was always good. But like many defensemen on the Rangers... Not good enough for the fan base. 

This is a strain in Ranger fandom that goes back 70 years.  It starts with HOFers Allan Stanley and Harry Howell.  On to Rod Seiling, and most recently, Skjei.  Personally, I advocate considering trading Miller because of cap issues and other priorities, not because he isn't good and may get better.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Sod16