Alexis Lafreniere and the Rangers Reach a Critical Point

[Keirik]

7 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Prove to me that he does care. 

 

See? That's ridiculous to ask. You're asking for something other than the things others and I have pointed out. I've brought something to the table. It's a base. It can be built upon with the stat sheet and the obvious lack of production, lack of chances and the insanely boneheaded plays he has made. 

 

Prove to me that he gives a shit, besides the fact that he MIGHT be putting his skates on by himself every fame. 

 

You can't. So, if you can't provide "receipts " then how in the F are you in the right and everyone else has a narrative? 

 

I'm doubling down on what we all see. It's not one little example. Try to take the blue glasses off tonight and watch this dummy continue to look and play like he doesn't care that everyone is seriously questioning his future.  

 

Why are you singling me out here BTW?  Saying "others have explained it, clarified ". They have? They're saying the same thing I am, but I seem to strike a nerve with you. Talk about narrative..

 

Let's watch him tonight. 

Observe. Report. Please. I'll do the same. If this exercise isn't good enough example for you,  then WTF are you looking for? 

 

 

To be honest, its not on me to prove something that is inherintly true for 99% of professional athletes. They dont get to the top of their trade and remain in the leagues without caring. Every coach can see if a player is half assing it out there. But if you need proof then here. He's a regular player in the Rangers lineup. When Kreider went out, Laf went straight to the top line. He's been a healthy scratch very little in his career and even when he did a couple of weeks ago, he was inserted right back into the lineup. There isn't a hint about work ethic anywhere in the organization. 

 

What blue glasses are you talking about? I've been very critical of him in the past. I directly blamed him for us losing a point in overtime when he tried to do too much and instead collided with Chytil. Hell, I've actually been so critical that I keep trying to tell you that he isn't getting offer sheeted because the results just don't warrant it

[Keirik]

5 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Is that what we think of the locker-room when they go on a skid and play like they are all against the coach? That locker-room?

 

I dunno. The Rangers that give up in the 3rd period and depend on their goalie to bail them out, doesn't necessarily scream strong locker-room to me. We all thought the locker-room was divided just a month ago. 

 

The coach benched Lafrenière. Some would think it was for the chinstrap incident. His next game back an also ran nobody D man gave a big F you to the coach and gave Lafrenière the Broadway hat, just because...  

 

Let's  take a small step back from the strong locker-room take. 

 Wouldn’t it make more sense that they gave the broadway hat to recently scratched young struggling player that they know is trying too hard and just want to show they still support him? Giving him the hat is no different than vets talking with Kakko on the bench after he screws up. 

[Scott]

Kakko and Chytil have a tough shift, a major screw up and they show a frustration level and they seem to take it personally and come back and with and even stronger effort while fully realizing they fucked up. Just one example was Kakko's dangling at the d blue line getting picked that lead to a goal going the other way. He was wiped out on the bench. Yet he picked himself up with the help of his team mates and came back and made a difference in that same game.

 

Talking about Alexis hits isn't even worth debating, ok great his count is one of the better ones on a babyshit soft team. He shows no edge, he repeatedly gets knocked down and does nothing, not a face wash, nothing. Most often staring at his skates. He doesn't get involved in scrums hasn't come close to dropping his gloves etc.  There is little to no aggression at all in his game. 

 

Again if we're going to be stuck with him I certainly hope he improves. If you believe he stinks less than I do that great. 

[The Dude]

8 minutes ago, Keirik said:

To be honest, its not on me to prove something that is inherintly true for 99% of professional athletes. They dont get to the top of their trade and remain in the leagues without caring. Every coach can see if a player is half assing it out there. But if you need proof then here. He's a regular player in the Rangers lineup. When Kreider went out, Laf went straight to the top line. He's been a healthy scratch very little in his career and even when he did a couple of weeks ago, he was inserted right back into the lineup. There isn't a hint about work ethic anywhere in the organization. 

 

What blue glasses are you talking about? I've been very critical of him in the past. I directly blamed him for us losing a point in overtime when he tried to do too much and instead collided with Chytil. Hell, I've actually been so critical that I keep trying to tell you that he isn't getting offer sheeted because the results just don't warrant it

Well, I want you to prove it. That's pretty much how I take your retort to my saying the kid is "having a grand ol' time out there" after he was blatantly and obviously goofing around on the bench during a crucial time out and is seen multiple time laughing and looking like he hasn't a care in the world,  while people question his future. 

 

BTW, is your comment "this narrative has to stop" coming as a mod? Like are you ordering me to stop unless I can find a quote from Lafrenière stating, he infact does not give a fuck and is waiting to be traded or something like that? 

 

Or just asking for something impossible to bring forward,  because my take is based solely on perception? 

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, Keirik said:

 Wouldn’t it make more sense that they gave the broadway hat to recently scratched young struggling player that they know is trying too hard and just want to show they still support him? Giving him the hat is no different than vets talking with Kakko on the bench after he screws up. 

You're maybe half right, I think? Like yea, that was the intent, but it was basically just Harpur doing it on his own because he knows what it's like to be health bombed...I would say that's quite different than 2 veterans like CK and VT taking KK aside....It's like one journeyman to a future journeyman LOL.

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, jsrangers said:

It's certainly common to see the biggest disappointment this side of Blais to be playing the chin strap game during a game where he again was completely invisible while the team was huddled up during a time out. That could be consider the action of somebody who just doesn't get it. Forget the lack of emotion,fire/physicality on the ice when everything else is going wrong. This kid is having a blast. I'm not sure how anybody who's watching him could say anything else.  There's no fire there whatsoever. He acts like a mid-round pick who's just happy to be there.

 

Hopefully there's a whole different game going on somewhere else in his head. I do kinda of doubt it based on the way he came back after getting benched. His response was just more of the same.

I want to punch your avatar/profile picture. It's infuriating. BUT. I give the kid props for untimely humor. Where the fuck was his head at during that timeout? 

[RangersIn7]

43 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Is that what we think of the locker-room when they go on a skid and play like they are all against the coach? That locker-room?

 

I dunno. The Rangers that give up in the 3rd period and depend on their goalie to bail them out, doesn't necessarily scream strong locker-room to me. We all thought the locker-room was divided just a month ago. 

 

The coach benched Lafrenière. Some would think it was for the chinstrap incident. His next game back an also ran nobody D man gave a big F you to the coach and gave Lafrenière the Broadway hat, just because...  

 

Let's  take a small step back from the strong locker-room take. 

You’re like the Martha ad at the bottom of the page.

 

When I hit reply…, it’s a mistake.

[Scott]

I hope he goes out and scores a hat trick in the first period. I don't think anybody truly enjoys the fact that he's fallen this far. He was counted on as being a much bigger part of this team taking the next step this season. But I don't see much of anything to defend at this point, at least up until now this season.  

 

What's "there"?

 

The best thing he has going for him is his pre draft scouting report.  That's a bummer. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by jsrangers

[RangersIn7]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I want to punch your avatar/profile picture. It's infuriating. BUT. I give the kid props for untimely humor. Where the fuck was his head at during that timeout? 

Because of a camera shot 1 time,

You’re Mike Dexter.

 

[Keirik]

Just now, The Dude said:

Well, I want you to prove it. That's pretty much how I take your retort to my saying the kid is "having a grand ol' time out there" after he was blatantly and obviously goofing around on the bench during a crucial time out and is seen multiple time laughing and looking like he hasn't a care in the world,  while people question his future. 

 

BTW, is your comment "this narrative has to stop" coming as a mod? Like are you ordering me to stop unless I can find a quote from Lafrenière stating, he infact does not give a fuck and is waiting to be traded or something like that? 

 

Or just asking for something impossible to bring forward,  because my take is based solely on perception? 

What in the world are you talking about with the mod stuff?  That’s a pretty weak thing to even bring up. I haven’t warned you or modded you or anything in terms of this. Saying it needs to stop because there just isn’t any basis to support this. 
 

I already did prove it in my eyes. He’s pencilled in every game for  for the New York Rangers. I just feel you just need to learn the difference between effort and results. The effort is there. The results aren’t. He’s 3rd among forwards in hits. He has one less shot on goal than Kakko does. He averages 15 minutes of ice time per game. None of that happens if he doesn’t give a shit out there or doesn’t put any effort in. He’s either just not as good at hockey as we all thought or is a lot slower in developing than we hoped for/need him to be.

[Keirik]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

You're maybe half right, I think? Like yea, that was the intent, but it was basically just Harpur doing it on his own because he knows what it's like to be health bombed...I would say that's quite different than 2 veterans like CK and VT taking KK aside....It's like one journeyman to a future journeyman LOL.

Possibly, but I have a hard time thinking he would be given the hat if it were just one journeyman solely doing it while other vets are in disbelief. Harpur has been around long enough to read a room and I’m sure he wouldn’t do much to rock the boat given how fragile his own playing to,e has been up until recently lol.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Possibly, but I have a hard time thinking he would be given the hat if it were just one journeyman solely doing it while other vets are in disbelief. Harpur has been around long enough to read a room and I’m sure he wouldn’t do much to rock the boat given how fragile his own playing to,e has been up until recently lol.

No, Harpur said he did it on his own. I can't find the tweet, but he basically said it was his idea and not a team decision.

[Keirik]

Just now, Pete said:

No, Harpur said he did it on his own. I can't find the tweet, but he basically said it was his idea and not a team decision.

Ah. But I still don’t think he does it if he gets this impression the team isn’t supportive of him. He did so on his own but I imagine a guy that just recently cracked the lineup isn’t rocking the boat just to support a young guy he doesn’t know from Adam. 

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, Keirik said:

You are aware that he is third among Rangers forwards in hits, right?  I’m not suggesting that he’s some physical force out there but lack of physicality?  Compared to who? He’s doing fine physically since he isn’t exactly expected to throw his body around. Yet he is. 
 

you guys keep going on about this chin strap thing and extrapolate it as if it’s a daily thing. You’re 100% right. It’s not common. That’s why it’s not sometihng he’s doing daily. But if you are going to chastise a 21 year old kid and make up this whole narrative that he doesn’t care about his lack of production then you honestly are only doing a disservice to the entire conversation. It muddies waters that are already murky enough without the impossible to know narrative. 
 

The only thing Laf is “acting” like is a struggling young NHLer trying to find his game with gigantic expectations on his shoulders. 

Again with the hits? The amount of hits a player has simply does not provide any evidence of how physical a player plays. Lafrenière has 80. Lindgren has 50.  Lindgren logs huge minutes as a top pairing "physical D man", yet has 30 less hits. 

 

Hits are an extremely non pliable stat to solely base physicality on, based on the fact I provided above.  

 

Is Lafrenière more physical or anywhere near as physical as Lindgren? Schneider? Goodrow? Kreider? 

 

Answer is a big giant no. 

This narrative should stop if anything  Lafrenière is not a physical player what so ever. 

[Pete]

Hits are also a product of not having the puck. If he'd had it more, he'd be hitting less.

[Keirik]

Just now, The Dude said:

Again with the hits? The amount of hits a player has simply does not provide any evidence of how physical a player plays. Lafrenière has 80. Lindgren has 50.  Lindgren logs huge minutes as a top pairing "physical D man", yet has 30 less hits. 

 

Hits are an extremely non pliable stat to solely base physicality on, based on the fact I provided above.  

 

Is Lafrenière more physical or anywhere near as physical as Lindgren? Schneider? Goodrow? Kreider? 

 

Answer is a big giant no. 

This narrative should stop if anything  Lafrenière is not a physical player what so ever. 

I never said he’s some physical force out there. Not sure why you are jumping to that.  I even said it earlier. He’s not some physical force.

But this is about the incorrect assumption you’re making with no effort. If the player is just skating around not giving a shit, I find it hard to think he’s still getting shots and out hitting many other guys on the roster. He’s there on the forecheck. He’s trying to cycle, get in front, etc. Again, it’s not his effort that is the problem, it’s his results that aren’t there. That doesn’t mean you get to just make stuff up though and say he doesn’t give a crap, doesn’t show effort, or just is some happy go lucky dude oblivious to his season.  

 

[Keirik]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Hits are also a product of not having the puck. If he'd had it more, he'd be hitting less.

 I guess it’s that mentslity of “if you’re not scoring, you better be doing the other things out there…………”

…..besides colliding with Chytil in ot of course…

[The Dude]

4 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

I get your point. 
But like… what specifically do you want?

He should open the proverbial vein?

 

People take things the way they take them. 
It doesn’t mean he is apathetic, content, complacent, outright lazy, entitled, or has a bad attitude. 
 

 

Is anyone here saying he's lazy, entitled or has a bad attitude? I haven't used those words to describe him (that I remember).  

[The Dude]

44 minutes ago, Keirik said:

What in the world are you talking about with the mod stuff?  That’s a pretty weak thing to even bring up. I haven’t warned you or modded you or anything in terms of this. Saying it needs to stop because there just isn’t any basis to support this. 
 

I already did prove it in my eyes. He’s pencilled in every game for  for the New York Rangers. I just feel you just need to learn the difference between effort and results. The effort is there. The results aren’t. He’s 3rd among forwards in hits. He has one less shot on goal than Kakko does. He averages 15 minutes of ice time per game. None of that happens if he doesn’t give a shit out there or doesn’t put any effort in. He’s either just not as good at hockey as we all thought or is a lot slower in developing than we hoped for/need him to be.

Was asking if it was a warning. It's happened to me before. When a mod says something has to stop its usually a pre warning.

 

Just covering my ass as it seems you are only coming at me on the issue. Others are making great points to support my take. Things I've already said. 

[The Dude]

44 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Possibly, but I have a hard time thinking he would be given the hat if it were just one journeyman solely doing it while other vets are in disbelief. Harpur has been around long enough to read a room and I’m sure he wouldn’t do much to rock the boat given how fragile his own playing to,e has been up until recently lol.

But he did rock the boat. The other top young player had a huge bounce back in the game and deserved the hat over a guy that did nothing. What message dies that send to the player that actually did something and is obviously somewhat temperamental and very down on himself? 

[The Dude]

33 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I never said he’s some physical force out there. Not sure why you are jumping to that.  I even said it earlier. He’s not some physical force.

But this is about the incorrect assumption you’re making with no effort. If the player is just skating around not giving a shit, I find it hard to think he’s still getting shots and out hitting many other guys on the roster. He’s there on the forecheck. He’s trying to cycle, get in front, etc. Again, it’s not his effort that is the problem, it’s his results that aren’t there. That doesn’t mean you get to just make stuff up though and say he doesn’t give a crap, doesn’t show effort, or just is some happy go lucky dude oblivious to his season.  

 

I can say that.  Ill continue to,  until I  see different. Not sure why you say I can't. You see his game entirely different than a bunch of us. 

 

I'll continue saying he's not physical. As will mostly everyone else.  You can keep pointing to his hit totals. 

 

 

[Keirik]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Was asking if it was a warning. It's happened to me before. When a mod says something has to stop its usually a pre warning.

 

Just covering my ass as it seems you are only coming at me on the issue. Others are making great points to support my take. Things I've already said. 

Well, Im sure you read every post in the forum but you’re not being singled out for your opinion.  You’re not being focused on, you’re not given some special attention, etc.  I’m not sure where we are going with this. 

[Keirik]

7 minutes ago, The Dude said:

But he did rock the boat. The other top young player had a huge bounce back in the game and deserved the hat over a guy that did nothing. What message dies that send to the player that actually did something and is obviously somewhat temperamental and very down on himself? 

 And you know any of this to be true how? Show me so,e evidence of this. Beat writer, insider, etc. anyone? 

[SaveByRichter35]

@The Dude @Keirik

[Keirik]

1 minute ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

@The Dude @Keirik