Alexis Lafreniere and the Rangers Reach a Critical Point

[Keirik]

5 hours ago, Gravesy said:

If the point is we don't like his demeanor that's fine.

The narrative is about much more than how he looks after a fuck up though. It's him being lazy, not putting in the work and not taking it seriously.

And I don't buy that narrative.

Exactly. Plus everyone handles it differently. Some internalize and try intentionally to not display it out of pride. Some show it on their faces. I’m sure he knows exactly how many goals he has this year. I’m sure he’s very aware of why he was a healthy scratch. Every NHLer does.  Tbe optics mean very little and aren’t evidence of anything. 

[RangersIn7]

Just now, Keirik said:

So in other words, you have nothing tangible to say he’s “oblivious” to how he’s playing and that he isn’t taking this to heart. Gotcha. Okay. Keep the false narrative going. 

Ignore the rhetoric you’re hearing from this guy!

 

I think we all know, given what he’s going through and who he is, and where he was drafted and the expectations and implications that come with that, that he’s absolutely going through it, it’s a real challenge for him, he’s taking it seriously and the best he can, trying to soldier his way through it and it’s absolutely taking its toll on him.

 

Say whatever else about the Rangers, but I believe it’s a room that’s of very high quality and character and this kid wouldn’t be allowed to have an attitude like that nor take actions or behave in accordance with said bad attitude. Or even act in a way that’s normally associated with immaturity or entitlement. 
 

He’s not a problem. And he’s not doing or saying the wrong things. 
 

He’s just not there yet. 

[Pete]

His attitude isn't a huge problem but his play certainly is. 

 

But I guess every team team needs cheap 3rd liners. 

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Exactly. Plus everyone handles it differently. Some internalize and try intentionally to not display it out of pride. Some show it on their faces. I’m sure he knows exactly how many goals he has this year. I’m sure he’s very aware of why he was a healthy scratch. Every NHLer does.  Tbe optics mean very little and aren’t evidence of anything. 

Yup

 

And the remedy is 3 fold:

1) Continue playing him

2) Coaches and vets need to be present and positive.

3) Be damn patient. 

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

His attitude isn't a huge problem but his play certainly is. 

 

But I guess every team team needs cheap 3rd liners. 

Especially when they’re 21 and a 1OVA on a cap strapped team with a big upside.

 

Hey!

Look at that one!

[Keirik]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

His attitude isn't a huge problem but his play certainly is. 

 

But I guess every team team needs cheap 3rd liners. 

His play absolutely is a problem. There is no denying that. This narrative that he is going through this without giving a shit is very much irresponsible to keep beating the drum over. None of us know this and there just isn’t enough there to suggest its validity.  I think most of us could agree with that. 

[Pete]

12 minutes ago, Keirik said:

His play absolutely is a problem. There is no denying that. This narrative that he is going through this without giving a shit is very much irresponsible to keep beating the drum over. None of us know this and there just isn’t enough there to suggest its validity.  I think most of us could agree with that. 

We don't know, of course. But the optics aren't great.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Pete

[Scott]

It's certainly common to see the biggest disappointment this side of Blais to be playing the chin strap game during a game where he again was completely invisible while the team was huddled up during a time out. That could be consider the action of somebody who just doesn't get it. Forget the lack of emotion,fire/physicality on the ice when everything else is going wrong. This kid is having a blast. I'm not sure how anybody who's watching him could say anything else.  There's no fire there whatsoever. He acts like a mid-round pick who's just happy to be there.

 

Hopefully there's a whole different game going on somewhere else in his head. I do kinda of doubt it based on the way he came back after getting benched. His response was just more of the same.

Edited January 19, 2023 by jsrangers

[Keirik]

6 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

It's certainly common to see the biggest disappointment this side of Blais to be playing the chin strap game during a game where he again was completely invisible while the team was huddled up during a time out. That could be consider the action of somebody who just doesn't get it. Forget the lack of emotion,fire/physicality on the ice when everything else is going wrong. This kid is having a blast. I'm not sure how anybody who's watching him could say anything else.  There's no fire there whatsoever. He acts like a mid-round pick who's just happy to be there.

 

Hopefully there's a whole different game going on somewhere else in his head. I do kinda of doubt it based on the way he came back after getting benched. His response was just more of the same.

You are aware that he is third among Rangers forwards in hits, right?  I’m not suggesting that he’s some physical force out there but lack of physicality?  Compared to who? He’s doing fine physically since he isn’t exactly expected to throw his body around. Yet he is. 
 

you guys keep going on about this chin strap thing and extrapolate it as if it’s a daily thing. You’re 100% right. It’s not common. That’s why it’s not sometihng he’s doing daily. But if you are going to chastise a 21 year old kid and make up this whole narrative that he doesn’t care about his lack of production then you honestly are only doing a disservice to the entire conversation. It muddies waters that are already murky enough without the impossible to know narrative. 
 

The only thing Laf is “acting” like is a struggling young NHLer trying to find his game with gigantic expectations on his shoulders. 

[Keirik]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

We don't know, of course. But the optics aren't great.

And that’s fair. But it doesn’t mean we need to keep driving home something we can’t know. I know it’s in our DNA with this fanbase but still. We’ve seen it plenty of times before whether it be Strome, Panarin, Laf, Georgiev, etc.  

[jsm7302]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

And that’s fair. But it doesn’t mean we need to keep driving home something we can’t know. I know it’s in our DNA with this fanbase but still. We’ve seen it plenty of times before whether it be Strome, Panarin, Laf, Georgiev, etc.  

It would be great if one of these reporters that follow the team would seek out some answers regarding Laf outside of Gallants vague, bland comments. Feature him in a piece, get some insight for the rest of us. Help us understand. Forget the opinion pieces And do some investigative journalism on training regimens, etc. Help us believe in the kid! Because right now I have no other thoughts than playing chin strap charades on the bench.

 

I get what you say about not judging off a snapshot in time but damn, I'd be hard pressed to find someone who is laser focused trying to bring levity during a time like that. 

[Keirik]

Just now, jsm7302 said:

It would be great if one of these reporters that follow the team would seek out some answers regarding Laf outside of Gallants vague, bland comments. Feature him in a piece, get some insight for the rest of us. Help us understand. Forget the opinion pieces And do some investigative journalism on training regimens, etc. Help us believe in the kid! Because right now I have no other thoughts than playing chin strap charades on the bench.

 

I get what you say about not judging off a snapshot in time but damn, I'd be hard pressed to find someone who is laser focused trying to bring levity during a time like that. 

It’s hard though. His training regiment might just be something we think is an issue but just isn’t to the staff/reporters. Who knows. Plenty of players come back to the bench tired but we aren’t optically staring at them looking for signs of things like we are with laf. 
   Or maybe there is an issue and they are shielding him from it publicly. Again, we can’t know that. But something tells me that it’s not a conditioning issue since the team didn’t exactly shield Kravtsov from it when there were concerns about his offseason training.  However yet again there is no way to know this right now.

 

it could just be that this is a lost year for him and a hard reset is necessary this offseason. 

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

It would be great if one of these reporters that follow the team would seek out some answers regarding Laf outside of Gallants vague, bland comments. Feature him in a piece, get some insight for the rest of us. Help us understand. Forget the opinion pieces And do some investigative journalism on training regimens, etc. Help us believe in the kid! Because right now I have no other thoughts than playing chin strap charades on the bench.

 

I get what you say about not judging off a snapshot in time but damn, I'd be hard pressed to find someone who is laser focused trying to bring levity during a time like that. 

Athletic just did a piece on him after the scratch. All he said was "I could be better".

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Athletic just did a piece on him after the scratch. All he said was "I could be better".

I get your point. 
But like… what specifically do you want?

He should open the proverbial vein?

 

People take things the way they take them. 
It doesn’t mean he is apathetic, content, complacent, outright lazy, entitled, or has a bad attitude. 
 

 

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

I get your point. 
But like… what specifically do you want?

He should open the proverbial vein?

 

People take things the way they take them. 
It doesn’t mean he is apathetic, content, complacent, outright lazy, entitled, or has a bad attitude. 
 

 

 

For me it's just the nonchalant body language gives an entitled IDGAF vibe. A little fire once in a while, in moderation, when he fucks up might not be a bad thing.

[Art20c]

10 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

For me it's just the nonchalant body language gives an entitled IDGAF vibe. A little fire once in a while, in moderation, when he fucks up might not be a bad thing.

I get the same impression. He looks very disinterested 

[lefty9]

20 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

 

For me it's just the nonchalant body language gives an entitled IDGAF vibe. A little fire once in a while, in moderation, when he fucks up might not be a bad thing.

This is when you need Tortorella 

[Drew a Penalty]

What bugs me about Lafreniere is that I don't get the impression of much drive or ability to identify his shortcomings. I don't doubt that he has passion for the game, but it doesn't manifest itself in a way that's led to any significant growth. You see other players who are passionate who are better students of the game, who have a more voracious appetite to improve.

 

I think of an elite player like Kucherov and his work ethic when it comes to reviewing tape of himself and others:

 

Quote

“I know every D-man, his best ability and where he’s not comfortable,” Kucherov said. “I can put the puck in a place where he’s weak and attack that space, attack his weak spot. For me, I had to learn, I had to watch the clips. Maybe some guys go out drinking. I just want to watch the shifts.

 

“I don’t have the speed, right? I don’t have a crazy shot. I don’t have shiftiness like crazy. There’s nothing I can be the best in for those abilities. I don’t have it naturally. I can’t jump 45 inches. I’m like a 25-inch vertical. I had to use my brain.

 

“That guy that’s in the gym? I know he’s going to fumble the puck. I’m going to go after him and he’s going to give me the puck.”

 

https://theathletic.com/3705435/2022/11/12/nhl-99-nikita-kucherov/

 

You don't get that kind of impression of Lafreniere. He's not a fitness freak. He's never given the impression of a first on, last off type of practicer. It's been a long while since I've noticed the beats saying he was taking extra reps. I just don't see a path towards any improvement without him taking some introspective and radically going down some sort of path.

 

I look at Lafreniere versus Kakko, and while the production has been close between the two, the year over year improvement from Kakko's game is missing from Lafreniere's. Kakko has at least improved his defense, skating, and strength in visible and quantifiable ways. Lafreniere has looked like the same player year over year. I can tell what Kakko has worked on each summer when he shows up for a new season. I can't tell you if Lafreniere skated for more than a week.

 

 

[jsm7302]

17 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

What bugs me about Lafreniere is that I don't get the impression of much drive or ability to identify his shortcomings. I don't doubt that he has passion for the game, but it doesn't manifest itself in a way that's led to any significant growth. You see other players who are passionate who are better students of the game, who have a more voracious appetite to improve.

 

I think of an elite player like Kucherov and his work ethic when it comes to reviewing tape of himself and others:

 

 

https://theathletic.com/3705435/2022/11/12/nhl-99-nikita-kucherov/

 

You don't get that kind of impression of Lafreniere. He's not a fitness freak. He's never given the impression of a first on, last off type of practicer. It's been a long while since I've noticed the beats saying he was taking extra reps. I just don't see a path towards any improvement without him taking some introspective and radically going down some sort of path.

 

I look at Lafreniere versus Kakko, and while the production has been close between the two, the year over year improvement from Kakko's game is missing from Lafreniere's. Kakko has at least improved his defense, skating, and strength in visible and quantifiable ways. Lafreniere has looked like the same player year over year. I can tell what Kakko has worked on each summer when he shows up for a new season. I can't tell you if Lafreniere skated for more than a week.

 

 

Spot on assessment.

[BrooksBurner]

21 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

What bugs me about Lafreniere is that I don't get the impression of much drive or ability to identify his shortcomings. I don't doubt that he has passion for the game, but it doesn't manifest itself in a way that's led to any significant growth. You see other players who are passionate who are better students of the game, who have a more voracious appetite to improve.

 

I think of an elite player like Kucherov and his work ethic when it comes to reviewing tape of himself and others:

 

 

https://theathletic.com/3705435/2022/11/12/nhl-99-nikita-kucherov/

 

You don't get that kind of impression of Lafreniere. He's not a fitness freak. He's never given the impression of a first on, last off type of practicer. It's been a long while since I've noticed the beats saying he was taking extra reps. I just don't see a path towards any improvement without him taking some introspective and radically going down some sort of path.

 

I look at Lafreniere versus Kakko, and while the production has been close between the two, the year over year improvement from Kakko's game is missing from Lafreniere's. Kakko has at least improved his defense, skating, and strength in visible and quantifiable ways. Lafreniere has looked like the same player year over year. I can tell what Kakko has worked on each summer when he shows up for a new season. I can't tell you if Lafreniere skated for more than a week.

 

 

I think Lafreniere had some bite 2nd half last year. I really think he let that blip of success dictate his offseason, and didn’t put the necessary work in to improve. “I had 19 goals without PowerPlay time. I’m good.” Complacency isn’t laziness, but it has the same effect that results in lack of progress.

 

If he’s not traded I expect him to be in the best shape of his life next Fall.

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, Keirik said:

So in other words, you have nothing tangible to say he’s “oblivious” to how he’s playing and that he isn’t taking this to heart. Gotcha. Okay. Keep the false narrative going. 

I really have to produce a quote of a hockey player saying he doesn't give a shit? Yeah, hold on let me go find that. 

 

I simply only have to watch the games. See his reactions. See his interactions on the bench and as he comes off the ice for intermission. Constantly smiling and jovial. 

 

I'm surprised you're not very observant of such things. 

 

Asking me for something tangible, besides the kid constantly laughing,  joking and having a smile pasted on his face, is ridiculous. Thats like me asking you to show me something tangible that shows he's NOT oblivious. 

 

I'll move along with what is obvious to anyone who is watching him. I'm not the only one here suggesting what I'm seeing. I guess our "narrative " can be ours. You do whatever it is you're  doing.  Which seems to be looking for an argument.  

 

 

 

 

[Drew a Penalty]

2 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I think Lafreniere had some bite 2nd half last year. I really think he let that blip of success dictate his offseason, and didn’t put the necessary work in to improve. “I had 19 goals without PowerPlay time. I’m good.” Complacency isn’t laziness, but it has the same effect that results in lack of progress.

 

If he’s not traded I expect him to be in the best shape of his life next Fall.

 

I agree that he had some bite particularly in the playoffs. He's not at all consistent with it, though, and that likely stems from his poor foot speed. I feel like a large portion of Lafreniere's hits are on players after they've played the puck. There's an argument for dealing damage over time, but it's taking himself out of the play to make a usually irrelevant hit. He's not the only one guilty of it, it's a problem many of the Rangers have, but I want to highlight that not all of Lafreniere's physicality is good physicality. He really needs to work on his skating and develop some actual strength if he wants to play that game.

[Keirik]

Just now, The Dude said:

I really have to produce a quote of a hockey player saying he doesn't give a shit? Yeah, hold on let me go find that. 

 

I simply only have to watch the games. See his reactions. See his interactions on the bench and as he comes off the ice for intermission. Constantly smiling and jovial. 

 

I'm surprised you're not very observant of such things. 

 

Asking me for something tangible, besides the kid constantly laughing,  joking and having a smile pasted on his face, is ridiculous. Thats like me asking you to show me something tangible that shows he's NOT oblivious. 

 

I'll move along with what is obvious to anyone who is watching him. I'm not the only one here suggesting what I'm seeing. I guess our "narrative " can be ours. You do whatever it is you're  doing.  Which seems to be looking for an argument.  

 

 

 

 

Yeah, actually you do need to show receipts for this kind of argument. You are literally saying that a 1st overall draft pick doesnt care if he does anything for the NYR. All based on seeing him play with his chin strap and smile sometimes.

 If you're going to make wild comments then double down constantly on the same wild comments, you do need to show receipts that make sense and have aometbing tangible to it. We all go through this all the time on a message board. Otherwise it's just baseless.

 

I'm not giving a narrative. You are. Saying an NHLer gives a shit isn't a narrative. It's a care that nearly every single NHLer has. If you are going to refute that, you need proof. Others have explained it, clarified. You just double down.  You're allowed an opinion, just like someone that says the earth is flat, but it's still based on no facts. 

 

[The Dude]

13 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Yeah, actually you do need to show receipts for this kind of argument. You are literally saying that a 1st overall draft pick doesnt care if he does anything for the NYR. All based on seeing him play with his chin strap and smile sometimes.

 If you're going to make wild comments then double down constantly on the same wild comments, you do need to show receipts that make sense and have aometbing tangible to it. We all go through this all the time on a message board. Otherwise it's just baseless.

 

I'm not giving a narrative. You are. Saying an NHLer gives a shit isn't a narrative. It's a care that nearly every single NHLer has. If you are going to refute that, you need proof. Others have explained it, clarified. You just double down.  You're allowed an opinion, just like someone that says the earth is flat, but it's still based on no facts. 

 

Prove to me that he does care. 

 

See? That's ridiculous to ask. You're asking for something other than the things others and I have pointed out. I've brought something to the table. It's a base. It can be built upon with the stat sheet and the obvious lack of production, lack of chances and the insanely boneheaded plays he has made. 

 

Prove to me that he gives a shit, besides the fact that he MIGHT be putting his skates on by himself every fame. 

 

You can't. So, if you can't provide "receipts " then how in the F are you in the right and everyone else has a narrative? 

 

I'm doubling down on what we all see. It's not one little example. Try to take the blue glasses off tonight and watch this dummy continue to look and play like he doesn't care that everyone is seriously questioning his future.  

 

Why are you singling me out here BTW?  Saying "others have explained it, clarified ". They have? They're saying the same thing I am, but I seem to strike a nerve with you. Talk about narrative..

 

Let's watch him tonight. 

Observe. Report. Please. I'll do the same. If this exercise isn't good enough example for you,  then WTF are you looking for? 

 

 

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Ignore the rhetoric you’re hearing from this guy!

 

I think we all know, given what he’s going through and who he is, and where he was drafted and the expectations and implications that come with that, that he’s absolutely going through it, it’s a real challenge for him, he’s taking it seriously and the best he can, trying to soldier his way through it and it’s absolutely taking its toll on him.

 

Say whatever else about the Rangers, but I believe it’s a room that’s of very high quality and character and this kid wouldn’t be allowed to have an attitude like that nor take actions or behave in accordance with said bad attitude. Or even act in a way that’s normally associated with immaturity or entitlement. 
 

He’s not a problem. And he’s not doing or saying the wrong things. 
 

He’s just not there yet. 

Is that what we think of the locker-room when they go on a skid and play like they are all against the coach? That locker-room?

 

I dunno. The Rangers that give up in the 3rd period and depend on their goalie to bail them out, doesn't necessarily scream strong locker-room to me. We all thought the locker-room was divided just a month ago. 

 

The coach benched Lafrenière. Some would think it was for the chinstrap incident. His next game back an also ran nobody D man gave a big F you to the coach and gave Lafrenière the Broadway hat, just because...  

 

Let's  take a small step back from the strong locker-room take.