Lafrenière Re-Reset: the 2022-23 Edition

[The Dude]

Well? He's not doing so hot. A lot of what he built upon at the end of last season and in the playoffs is gone right now. He started off this year ok. Had a nice run as Panarins RW, but it fizzled just as fast as it started. 

 

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. He's really deserving of being a scratch or on the 4th line. If Blais wasn't playing as lame as he has been  (though he is more noticeable lately), I'd say he's been the worst forward not named Carpenter over the last maybe 10 games.  

 

Maybe it's time to move on? Whats left to try with him?

 

Get something for him while they can. Maybe they can get a nice package of young forwards for him? Obviously a package deal with Kravtsov or Jones could get them something that fills needs. A Sam Bennet like move that Florida did a couple seasons ago is what's needed. 

 

An non surprising underachieving physical forward who isn't making huge money yet. But if a shooting RW were available I'd seriously think about pulling the trigger. 

 

With Othmann likely taking a spot next year, Lafrenière is playing himself out of the depth chart.

 

Unbelievable.  Only the Rangers. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by The Dude

[RichieNextel305]

I think it’s far too early to pull the plug. At the end of the day, he is only 21.

 

That being said, while certain aspects of his game have improved (such as his skating), he needs to begin finishing. Plain and simple. You are what the back of your hockey card says you are. And by now, I’d expect that given what he’s seen, he should be able to post 25/30/55 by this point.

 

I have defended him, and I will continue to. Moving him now is asking for trouble, because it’s the kind of move that can come back and flat out haunt you.

[Br4d]

Moving on would be a mistake.  Having Lafreniere at the heart of a great trade would not.  I don't think either is in the offing but I could see a Lafreniere departure going either way depending on how he was valued by the other side in the trade.

[Jdog99]

At least hell come cheap like kakko

[cupalife]

The biggest concern here is his skating.  Not sure how he ever becomes a prolific producer when he has no explosiveness to his game.  Maturity and experience will surely help him and I do think he will become a good NHL player but I think the thought of him ever becoming a player worthy of a #1 overall is doubtful at best.  The other issue is that I think he will be over valued here compared to other places.  He's our #1 overall and we want to give him as long a leash as possible to reach those heights.  We have a lot invested in that.  Other teams just view him for what he is.  I don't see any real attribute to his game that says he's anything special.  I actually think Kakko is much better than him and if I was giving up on either it'd be Laf

[Art20c]

In my book 1st overall who can’t skate, can’t deke, can’t finish, can’t shoot and , frankly, can’t see and feel the game is a bust. Since 1965 or so he’s first first overall, obviously, it’s gonna be very hard and painful to admit it, but time will come soon when we will have to man up and sign the death certificate. 

[josh]

Lafreniere and Kakko with some decent PP time will be fire.

 

both are so so so close. 
 

Yes, want more points, but extremely weird time to single out Lafreniere when there are money boys playing like dog shit 

[Sod16]

1 hour ago, cupalife said:

He's our #1 overall and we want to give him as long a leash as possible to reach those heights.  We have a lot invested in that.  Other teams just view him for what he is.  I don't see any real attribute to his game that says he's anything special.  I actually think Kakko is much better than him and if I was giving up on either it'd be Laf

 

This difference in perceptions is why he won't end up trading LaF anytime soon.  I agree regarding Kakko.  At least he's good on the walls, and I think his current mental hang up about missing puts will change.  Funny, in his first year his hands looked pretty good and the rest of his game was bad.  Now his hands are bad and the rest of his game is okay.

[Valriera]

Both lafreniere and kakko proved last year that not only can they play playoff hockey, but they dominated. They dominated into the conference finals. You don’t move on from that.

 

if we make it again and they suck im ready to talk, but there aren’t many young players who can make a claim such as this (chytil too) and you need these players to win. The points may or may not come. To be honest, I don’t know. It too hischier five years to be decent for New Jersey and he hasn’t sniffed the playoffs yet. Both laf and kakko not only sniffed the playoffs but rubbed their taints all over Carolina and Pittsburgh and Tampa. 
 

All of the above being true, I am totally disappointed too. Chytil has continued where he left off but both laf and kakko have not. No idea why, but it’s way too early to talk about moving from one of these guys yet

[jsm7302]

He gets two more seasons after this to start producing. Laf is young. He needs an intense trainer to put some jump into his skating. We need goals from him eventually. Give him to age 23/24 to see if he can live up to his draft position.

[Tonybologna]

Assume Laf and his agent are willing to take this deal: would anyone feel comfortable giving Laf an 8 year, 5 mil per contract? NMC of course. Sort of a thought exercise in whether we see that contract as a future steal or a future anchor. I would but only cause I'm a gambling man and also an optimist, curious what others think.

[Sod16]

I don't think NMCs can kick in until age 26.  I'd say the chances of him turning out to be a $3m a year player are somewhat higher than the chances of him being a $7m a year guy, so I'd say no, although it is an interesting and thought provoking proposition.  As a practical matter, LaF and his agent still probably have too high an opinion of him to do this.

 

If we bridge him for a lower number and he actually turns out to be worth significantly more than $5m a year, by the time the bridge is done, some of our long term contracts, or at least the NMCs, will be coming off the books and we could sign him for more.

[Keirik]

We are nowhere near close to this conversation yet. He’s not the worst fwd, he doesn’t deserve 4th line minutes, and he isn’t running out of options. 
 

This is another issue that kind of goes back to Gallant right now. His growth isn’t going to come if he isn’t put in positions to succeed. Gallants refusal to ever start a pp2 unit affects guys like Alf a heck of a lot. Never being out there ever in important minutes affects him also. This entire team is over using the top 6 to a level of insanity. 

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Tonybologna said:

Assume Laf and his agent are willing to take this deal: would anyone feel comfortable giving Laf an 8 year, 5 mil per contract? NMC of course. Sort of a thought exercise in whether we see that contract as a future steal or a future anchor. I would but only cause I'm a gambling man and also an optimist, curious what others think.

No brainer yes for me.

[RangersIn7]

You walk away from either of LaFreniere or Kakko and you’re going to watch them be great players… wearing another teams sweater

[Kevin]

8 hours ago, josh said:

Lafreniere and Kakko with some decent PP time will be fire.

 

both are so so so close. 
 

Yes, want more points, but extremely weird time to single out Lafreniere when there are money boys playing like dog shit 

PP time without Trouba at the point maybe. Jones or just keep Fox out for the full 2 minutes might benefit those guys.  As it’s currently constructed, with them getting like 30 seconds on the PP and Trouba being totally ineffective, they won’t score score any more than they currently are.

[Br4d]

5 hours ago, Keirik said:

We are nowhere near close to this conversation yet. He’s not the worst fwd, he doesn’t deserve 4th line minutes, and he isn’t running out of options. 
 

This is another issue that kind of goes back to Gallant right now. His growth isn’t going to come if he isn’t put in positions to succeed. Gallants refusal to ever start a pp2 unit affects guys like Alf a heck of a lot. Never being out there ever in important minutes affects him also. This entire team is over using the top 6 to a level of insanity. 

 

GG's big weakness is that as a player's coach he puts too much trust in the players.  Specifically he puts too much trust in the vested vets - the guys who have proven they can play at a high level at some point.

 

This weakness comes back to haunt in the form of players not in that group who are not given the best opportunity to develop.  It's almost as if being a high pick and not a trusted vet is the worst possible place to be as a Ranger right now.  The expectations are unreasonable and the opportunities are mundane.

 

It's worth noting that GG was not a high pick and had to claw his way to the top.  Took him 4 years to make the NHL and then his career was likely briefer than he thought it should be.  He has to see guys like Laffy and Kakko as silver spoon kids who were handed the keys to the vault.

[RangersIn7]

6 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

GG's big weakness is that as a player's coach he puts too much trust in the players.  Specifically he puts too much trust in the vested vets - the guys who have proven they can play at a high level at some point.

 

This weakness comes back to haunt in the form of players not in that group who are not given the best opportunity to develop.  It's almost as if being a high pick and not a trusted vet is the worst possible place to be as a Ranger right now.  The expectations are unreasonable and the opportunities are mundane.

 

It's worth noting that GG was not a high pick and had to claw his way to the top.  Took him 4 years to make the NHL and then his career was likely briefer than he thought it should be.  He has to see guys like Laffy and Kakko as silver spoon kids who were handed the keys to the vault.

Yeah. This is a decent assessment of GG’s potential mindset 

 

But we’ve heard similar stuff like this about how many coaches?

This one doesn’t like to play kids. Only trusts the vets. Not good at developing younger guys. Etc. Yet we see coaches with that rep do it all the time. 
 

He just needs to play them. Period. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Br4d said:

 

GG's big weakness is that as a player's coach he puts too much trust in the players.  Specifically he puts too much trust in the vested vets - the guys who have proven they can play at a high level at some point.

 

This weakness comes back to haunt in the form of players not in that group who are not given the best opportunity to develop.  It's almost as if being a high pick and not a trusted vet is the worst possible place to be as a Ranger right now.  The expectations are unreasonable and the opportunities are mundane.

 

It's worth noting that GG was not a high pick and had to claw his way to the top.  Took him 4 years to make the NHL and then his career was likely briefer than he thought it should be.  He has to see guys like Laffy and Kakko as silver spoon kids who were handed the keys to the vault.

 

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah. This is a decent assessment of GG’s potential mindset 

 

But we’ve heard similar stuff like this about how many coaches?

This one doesn’t like to play kids. Only trusts the vets. Not good at developing younger guys. Etc. Yet we see coaches with that rep do it all the time. 
 

He just needs to play them. Period. 

That's not GGs "big" weakness, not even close. His big weakness is that he has no type of on ice plan. He's the NHL's highest paid cheerleader. 

 

That said, both the kids and the coach are in a unique position where they are trying to win now, but also have kids to develop. There aren't many teams with 2nd or 3rd year #1 or #2 overall going straight to the Eastern conference final. 

 

They're all caught between a rock and a hard place, because you have to play the kids in key situations so that they'll develop, but he's also mandated to try and win based on the way the last regime went out.

 

So I don't really blame him for playing the players he thinks give him the best chance to win, and 9 out of 10 coaches will say that it's a reliable veteran over a younger player. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

Getting back on topic Lafraniere isn't getting traded, but I think if someone blew them away with an offer they should strongly consider it.

[goondman]

Throw him to the wolves so to speak, and get him and kakko some serious playing time, OR TRADE THEM!!!!!

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

 

That's not GGs "big" weakness, not even close. His big weakness is that he has no type of on ice plan. He's the NHL's highest paid cheerleader. 

 

That said, both the kids and the coach are in a unique position where they are trying to win now, but also have kids to develop. There aren't many teams with 2nd or 3rd year #1 or #2 overall going straight to the Eastern conference final. 

 

They're all caught between a rock and a hard place, because you have to play the kids in key situations so that they'll develop, but he's also mandated to try and win based on the way the last regime went out.

 

So I don't really blame him for playing the players he thinks give him the best chance to win, and 9 out of 10 coaches will say that it's a reliable veteran over a younger player. 

I was talking about his mindset potentially as it relates to guys like that.

 

Not as a weakness 

 

His biggest issue as a coach is undeniably his lack of system and structure

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Getting back on topic Lafraniere isn't getting traded, but I think if someone blew them away with an offer they should strongly consider it.

They could’ve had Eichel for him and a smaller piece or two

 

That is probably the best they were going to do.

 

And they didn’t. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

2 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

They could’ve had Eichel for him and a smaller piece or two

 

That is probably the best they were going to do.

 

And they didn’t. 

I wouldn't call Lafraniere + for Eichel a year ago being blown away.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

They could’ve had Eichel for him and a smaller piece or two

 

That is probably the best they were going to do.

 

And they didn’t. 

They couldn't afford to pay Eichel and keep Zib. 

 

I'd rather have Zib at $8M than Eichel at $10.