Trade Ideas

[The Dude]

8 hours ago, cupalife said:

 

Never said he was bad, that is you putting words in my mouth again.  The Detroit trade is for two guys who are UFA's at the end of the year, so it's actually not a haul.  

The Florida trade is the Rangers taking two bad contracts in Bennet and Gudas.  I put it down because the money works.  Obviously Jones?Robertson/Hajek and Blais/Vesey/ could be in play there as well to fill out their roster.  Florida has struggled as well and Panarin had interest there so that is why I put it down.  Of course you guys pick it apart because that is what you do.  Bitch just to bitch.  How about contribute something and tell us your ideas.  People kept saying give an example of what a trade of Panarin would look like so I answered.  

 

Both my trades makes sense for both teams if the Rangers are looking to change their identity and ice a deeper roster. Of course the best player in either trade is Panarin (maybe Larkin) 

 

In dealing with Florida the Ranger take two "bad" contracts but get Gudas and Bennet who are both in your face guys.  They get Verhague who is young scores around 25 to 30 and Lundell who is Kakko buddy and good young centerman.  To be honest the Rangers probably need to give more than Panarin, Kravtsov, and Blais but I'd be willing to see the counter.  Florida on the other hand gets Panarin who I assume everyone loves because he's the best LW in hockey, no?  They get Kravtsov and his potential and Blais to replace some of the grit lost.  Also they ride themselves of Bennet's horrible contract.

 

The Detroit deal only makes sense if Yzerman thinks he can't sign those guys.  He gets Panarin back for two guys who are gone anyway.  The Rangers get out from the contract and have $11.5M at years end to fix what ails them.  In the short term the Rangers get much better.  

Kreider Zib Kakko

Laf Larkin Chytil

Bertuzzi Trocheck Gauthier

Vesey Goodrow Blais

Sam Bennets contract is actually awesome.  Not sure why you think it's horrible. 

 

I'd love to have Bennet,  but he's not going anywhere.  His resurgence in Florida, helped push that team into contenderland. 

 

I get where you're trying to go with these moves and I agree that these types of players would be huge fits for the Rangers.  I just don't think you're going to get these names in exchange for big contracts. It would likely have to be a 1 for 1 type of trade if you're seriously looking to move Panarin.  

 

I think the wiser move is to look for trade partners for Zibanejad and or Kreider. These are players teams would have interest in.  These are names that also fit into the category of "players who play weak". Wanna change the team identity? These 2 can go just as much as your desire to trade Panarin. 

[Jdog99]

I  think playing weak is more about team culture and style than individual players.

 

So GG has got to be the first to go.

[cupalife]

7 hours ago, Phil said:

I actually think there's some logical merit to a bunch of these, even if there are cap and logistical complications that aren't really being considered. My suggestion to you @cupalife isn't to lash out, but to refine. Look at what @RichieNextel305 posted in this thread about Hoffman, or the thread I posted recently about Kravtsov for Rossi. You don't need to provide a novel, but it's always better to offer a specific trade idea/proposal than a thread with a laundry list like this.

I appreciate the advice.  Hard not to lash out when I'm being told "I know who you are".  I joined here recently and have been hounded by this guy relentlessly.  I have no idea who Brett is or Brettsky.  It's all over my head yet 3 people chimed in about it.  Trying to have a civil discussion not be ridiculed for having a different opinion or having posters saying they know who I am.  You have no idea who I am nor do I know anyone on here    If Bretsky or Brett was a problem on here I don't see how that is my problem or how it is me you feel needs your advice.   I will not lash out going forward but you may want to offer your advice to other's here or is it because I'm new?  If so I get it but  just let me know so I know if I want to stay.

Edited November 30, 2022 by cupalife

[Pete]

When you put ideas out there and people don't agree, it happens.

 

It's also not just the hot takes, it's the total lack of effort into providing any type of real evidence supporting your stance... And everyone else is. And it ain't just me.

 

This isn't Rangers Twitter, we're here to have a more involved conversation, hence Phil's comment. 

[cupalife]

8 hours ago, Pete said:

When you put ideas out there and people don't agree, it happens.

 

It's also not just the hot takes, it's the total lack of effort into providing any type of real evidence supporting your stance... And everyone else is. And it ain't just me.

 

This isn't Rangers Twitter, we're here to have a more involved conversation, hence Phil's comment. 

You're first response here was to call me Bretsky and tell me you know who I am.  That is not an effort to have a real discussion.  That's an effort to diminish me instead of discussing the topic.  The thread is about trade ideas.  Not about any one player on the team.  I listed multiple ideas.  Apparently none of those ideas meet your standard for discussion.  Not sure how I provide facts to my trade ideas, being that I'm not working as GM of the Rangers.  It is implied that any trade idea doesn't have to be the exact deal but more the framework of one.

 

Phil told me not to be to in depth and not to write a novel.  Sounds like he's looking more for a tweet.  

 

Please give me your evidence you have presented here.  

 

[cupalife]

Oh and here is my evidence as to why they need a trade not just a new coach:

 

The last years of AV, all of Quinn, and now GG have made any difference in structure, ability to defend, forecheck, create second chances, drive the net, or play with a pulse.  While replacing the coach may help the problems with this team is also the roster construction.  The core guys are all noncombative and tend to look for the perfect play instead of the structurally smart one.  Trouba is the only core guy who plays with an edge but the rest of his game stinks.  I believe the team needs a major change.  I wouldn't move Zib or Fox because they'd be impossible to replace.  Trocheck just got here so I doubt they are moving him.  That leaves Panarin, Kreider, Kakko, Laf, Chytil, Miller, Lindgren as the guys you could make a change with.

 

 I don't believe Laf is realistic because the team would hav to blown away to move him at this point.  Even if that happened it would hard to imagine a deal that wouldn't include the Rangers needing to be able to take on cap.

 

Wouldn't move Lindgren as he maybe the only guy who plays his position well and competes every night.

 

I'd move Kreider in a second.  I think he'd entertain a move to Boston.  I live in New England surrounded by Bruins fans.  In talking to them every one of them would do a Kreider for Debrusk and Frederick deal.  Kreider upgrades their top 6, improves their power play and has a legit chance to win a cup.  The Rangers get tougher and lengthen their forward group.  Frederick replaces Carpenter and is the exact type of young forward the Rangers need.  Debrusk is a legit top 6 forward even if he's a downgrade off Kreider.

 

Miller and Kravtsov for Chychrun. Arizona gets two young pieces with Miller's potential maybe being higher than Chychrun.  Rangers get Chychrun's reasonable contract at term with a player who is steadier and more of a proven player.   He's also a guy with an edge which this team needs badly.

 

Panarin.  There is no way we will ever agree.   Somebody pointed out an issue with the Florida proposal which could be fixed by altering the deal a little.  nobody has made issue with the Detroit proposal other than to say it can't happen.  No evidence as to why not.

 

I'm not proposing they make all these trades but just 1.  Change the look.  Change the identity.  The Rangers are way to much of the same thing.  

[Pete]

22 minutes ago, cupalife said:

You're first response here was to call me Bretsky and tell me you know who I am.  That is not an effort to have a real discussion.  That's an effort to diminish me instead of discussing the topic.  The thread is about trade ideas.  Not about any one player on the team.  I listed multiple ideas.  Apparently none of those ideas meet your standard for discussion.  Not sure how I provide facts to my trade ideas, being that I'm not working as GM of the Rangers.  It is implied that any trade idea doesn't have to be the exact deal but more the framework of one.

 

Phil told me not to be to in depth and not to write a novel.  Sounds like he's looking more for a tweet.  

 

Please give me your evidence you have presented here.  

 

No, Phil's telling you to give any effort at all into supporting your idea because you didn't. You just listed trades (many don't work under the cap or make sense for the other team, but some do). Do you need a novel? No. Do you need something? Yes. 

 

Also, don't make it about this thread, it's been your MO upon arrival, for example the laundry list of players you claim to be better than Panarin, or who you'd rather have with zero rationale, etc.

 

But by all means, you keep doing what you're doing. It's going swimmingly. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, cupalife said:

You're first response here was to call me Bretsky and tell me you know who I am.  That is not an effort to have a real discussion.  That's an effort to diminish me instead of discussing the topic.  The thread is about trade ideas.  Not about any one player on the team.  I listed multiple ideas.  Apparently none of those ideas meet your standard for discussion.  Not sure how I provide facts to my trade ideas, being that I'm not working as GM of the Rangers.  It is implied that any trade idea doesn't have to be the exact deal but more the framework of one.

 

Phil told me not to be to in depth and not to write a novel.  Sounds like he's looking more for a tweet.  

 

Please give me your evidence you have presented here.  

 

 

No, I'm looking for you to make a thread suggesting ONE of your ideas with maybe a little explanation as to why you think it works for one or ideally both teams so we have a refined thread to discuss the idea.

[RJWantsTheCup]

Joel Edmundson is a name I've heard kicked around for the 3rd pair left side

[Sod16]

Players don't routinely waive NTCs.  When they do so, it's usually because things have become very bad for them with a team over a significant period of time or perhaps when the team has fallen into long term dumps and there is a chance to go to a contender.  These situations don't apply to CK or MZ.  CK just got a new house in Westchester and he says he and his lady love "country living" there.  

[The Dude]

8 hours ago, cupalife said:

Oh and here is my evidence as to why they need a trade not just a new coach:

 

The last years of AV, all of Quinn, and now GG have made any difference in structure, ability to defend, forecheck, create second chances, drive the net, or play with a pulse.  While replacing the coach may help the problems with this team is also the roster construction.  The core guys are all noncombative and tend to look for the perfect play instead of the structurally smart one.  Trouba is the only core guy who plays with an edge but the rest of his game stinks.  I believe the team needs a major change.  I wouldn't move Zib or Fox because they'd be impossible to replace.  Trocheck just got here so I doubt they are moving him.  That leaves Panarin, Kreider, Kakko, Laf, Chytil, Miller, Lindgren as the guys you could make a change with.

 

 I don't believe Laf is realistic because the team would hav to blown away to move him at this point.  Even if that happened it would hard to imagine a deal that wouldn't include the Rangers needing to be able to take on cap.

 

Wouldn't move Lindgren as he maybe the only guy who plays his position well and competes every night.

 

I'd move Kreider in a second.  I think he'd entertain a move to Boston.  I live in New England surrounded by Bruins fans.  In talking to them every one of them would do a Kreider for Debrusk and Frederick deal.  Kreider upgrades their top 6, improves their power play and has a legit chance to win a cup.  The Rangers get tougher and lengthen their forward group.  Frederick replaces Carpenter and is the exact type of young forward the Rangers need.  Debrusk is a legit top 6 forward even if he's a downgrade off Kreider.

 

Miller and Kravtsov for Chychrun. Arizona gets two young pieces with Miller's potential maybe being higher than Chychrun.  Rangers get Chychrun's reasonable contract at term with a player who is steadier and more of a proven player.   He's also a guy with an edge which this team needs badly.

 

Panarin.  There is no way we will ever agree.   Somebody pointed out an issue with the Florida proposal which could be fixed by altering the deal a little.  nobody has made issue with the Detroit proposal other than to say it can't happen.  No evidence as to why not.

 

I'm not proposing they make all these trades but just 1.  Change the look.  Change the identity.  The Rangers are way to much of the same thing.  

Chychrun hasn't been steady in forever.  Seems like after all the talk of everyone across the league wanting to trade the cupboard for him has severely died down. When a player is rumored to be on the move fir 3 years, it should tell you a couple of things.  1) the team is asking too much.  2) his value is decreasing.  3) the league knows he's not even that good. 

 

Why did you breeze over my point about Bennet's contract not being horrible (as you stated),  but infact pretty awesome? 4.4 mill for 3 more years for a physical force, a playoff performer and a 2nd line center?  Sign me the fuck up for that. 

[cupalife]

5 hours ago, The Dude said:

Chychrun hasn't been steady in forever.  Seems like after all the talk of everyone across the league wanting to trade the cupboard for him has severely died down. When a player is rumored to be on the move fir 3 years, it should tell you a couple of things.  1) the team is asking too much.  2) his value is decreasing.  3) the league knows he's not even that good. 

 

Why did you breeze over my point about Bennet's contract not being horrible (as you stated),  but infact pretty awesome? 4.4 mill for 3 more years for a physical force, a playoff performer and a 2nd line center?  Sign me the fuck up for that. 

Sam Bennet is not a second line center.  He's more of a fourth line center

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, cupalife said:

Sam Bennet is not a second line center.  He's more of a fourth line center

 

 

Annnnnd there goes your credibility. 

 

No wonder you're disappointed in Panarin.  You expect 50 points from your 4th liners.  So I guess. Panarin needs to put up 200.

[Cash or Czech]

Bennett's last three seasons:

27 points in 48 games, average TOI in Florida 18:04

49 points in 71 games, avg TOI 16:57

16 points in 23 games, avg TOI 17:59

 

0.65 points/game over the last 2+ seasons

 

He's 4th among FLA forwards in ATOI. Plays 2:33 per game on the power play. 1:10 per game shorthanded. Panthers definitely don't value him as a 4th line center. And we'd be foolish to as well. 

[Bugg]

15 hours ago, Sod16 said:

Players don't routinely waive NTCs.  When they do so, it's usually because things have become very bad for them with a team over a significant period of time or perhaps when the team has fallen into long term dumps and there is a chance to go to a contender.  These situations don't apply to CK or MZ.  CK just got a new house in Westchester and he says he and his lady love "country living" there.  

Between that and the cap, very difficult trade players.  

 

Kreider, if he wants to go back to Boston, can drive there in about 3+ hours from Westchester. Happiness is a warm, loving family who live in a different  distant city anyway. Other than ridiculous realty taxes Westchester is a nice place to live. 

 

And you have to think about the other team. Does the trade really meet their needs. As to dealing Kreider to Boston, why would they mess with their current success? Think team chemistry is sportswriter invented nonsense. But there's something to be said for not upsetting the apple cart when things are going well. Same idea; might think the Habs would love the have Laffy, but they aren't giving up Caufield. 

 

Sports radio late at night is clogged with incel housebound agoraphobes proposing "My team will give you their pile of problem children and shit for your superstar." Not how these things work, unless you're crazy or Phil Esposito.

[Pete]

22 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

Bennett's last three seasons:

27 points in 48 games, average TOI in Florida 18:04

49 points in 71 games, avg TOI 16:57

16 points in 23 games, avg TOI 17:59

 

0.65 points/game over the last 2+ seasons

 

He's 4th among FLA forwards in ATOI. Plays 2:33 per game on the power play. 1:10 per game shorthanded. Panthers definitely don't value him as a 4th line center. And we'd be foolish to as well. 

And he's centering their first line with Barkov out.

 

Calling him a 4th line Center is just fiction. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

I think left defenseman for the 3rd pair that can slot up to the 2nd pair if and when needed should be the first priority for the Rangers.

[Ozzy]

23 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

I think left defenseman for the 3rd pair that can slot up to the 2nd pair if and when needed should be the first priority for the Rangers.

 

I was watching Nick Holden last night.  He's on an expiring contract ($1.3 million)?

[jsm7302]

I'd attempt a whole roster trade with Colorado. Each team can protect 3 players.

 

I'm keeping Zib, Fox and Shesty.

[RJWantsTheCup]

15 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

I was watching Nick Holden last night.  He's on an expiring contract ($1.3 million)?

What would Ottawa want for him is the question?

I was thinking Edmundson from Montreal was a possibility?

[Ozzy]

30 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

What would Ottawa want for him is the question?

I was thinking Edmundson from Montreal was a possibility?

 

Yeah I hear ya....Montreal may be contending for a playoff spot though, and may not wanna sell.  I think we could get Holden for a mid round pick...maybe?  I dunno...but he's an experienced vet with size and seems pretty capable.  I dunno, just taking a swipe at it. 

[The Dude]

4 hours ago, Ozzy said:

 

I was watching Nick Holden last night.  He's on an expiring contract ($1.3 million)?

Never bring back a guy that was a flash in the pan here. That magic is gone. Plus I hated him when he was here.

 

If anyone is going to play over Jones or Robertson, they better be pretty good.  

[LindG1000]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Never bring back a guy that was a flash in the pan here. That magic is gone. Plus I hated him when he was here.

 

If anyone is going to play over Jones or Robertson, they better be pretty good.  

Not to rain on the parade here, but right now, anyone playing over Jones, Hajek, or Robertson that can play competent defense is an improvement. 

 

And Nick Holden does fit that basic bill.

[Winter]

Rangers get

-Meier(Extended, $1mil retained by SJ)

-Bonino(Extended, 50% retained by SJ)

-Ferraro($1mil retained by SJ)

-Kunin(50% retained by SJ)

 

 

Sharks get

-Kakko

-Chytil

-Miller(Extended)

-NYR 1st round pick

-DAL 1st round pick

-2nd Round pick

-Dylan Garand

-Carpenter

-Vesey

 

Panarin-Zibanejad-Meier

Lafreniere-Trocheck-Kravtsov

Kreider-Bonino-Kunin

Blais-Goodrow-Gauthier/????

 

Lindgren-Fox

Ferraro-Trouba

Jones-Schneider 

 

Rotate lines however i just threw it together, obviously Panarin gets his shooter, Now that's a team no one wants to play against. 

[Keirik]

Just trade for Tarasenko. Perfect for Panarin, I’d go Kravtsov and a 1st. We get a guy who’s playing for a next contract.