Rangers Give Kravtsov Permission to Seek Trade; Loaned to KHL

[The Dude]

Kravstov wasn't competing with anyone. The GM chose Hunt and Tinordi to round out his roster (to beat up Tom Wilson.... hahahahahahaha that worked out well) and decided to hold onto Hajek and Gauthier because they fear if someone gives them an opportunity they will come back to bite them in the ass. Yet.... they themselves won't give them an opportunity, despite it being the perfect time to try them, with injuries, bad play and mishandling of top prospects. 

 

[Keirik]

There is plenty unprofessional about telling team 1 “yeah, don’t bother drafting me because if you do I’ll just go to college” then being traded to team 2 and saying “Yeah, I’m not really digging here either so maybe I’ll return for my senior year unless you trade me to the team I grew up wanting to play for. “

  there is a difference between using leverage and it being ethical sometimes. I’m happy as a pig in shit in this one since it benefited us but let’s not forget to call it what it is. We just see it differently because it helped us in one situation and hurt us in another. Fox wasn’t being booed the other night just for shits and giggles. 

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, Keirik said:

There is plenty unprofessional about telling team 1 “yeah, don’t bother drafting me because if you do I’ll just go to college” then being traded to team 2 and saying “Yeah, I’m not really digging here either so maybe I’ll return for my senior year unless you trade me to the team I grew up wanting to play for. “

  there is a difference between using leverage and it being ethical sometimes. I’m happy as a pig in shit in this one since it benefited us but let’s not forget to call it what it is. We just see it differently because it helped us in one situation and hurt us in another. Fox wasn’t being booed the other night just for shits and giggles. 

Firstly, where are the links to Fox telling Calgary not to draft him?

What Fox did is what VK should have done, Fox knew Calgary had a deep defensive pool and so did Carolina, so he used his means within the CBA to facilitate a trade.

VK signed on a team that already had top six wingers and then complained that he wasn't in the top six and then refused his assignments to the A.

All of these attempts to vindicate VK are really just grasping at straws, and trying to paint Fox in the same light is actually kind of pathetic.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Pete

[Keirik]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Firstly, where are the links to Fox telling Calgary not to draft him?

What fox did is what vacay should have done, he knew Calgary had a deep defensive pool and so did Carolina, so he used his means within the CBA to facilitate a trade.

VK signed on a team that already had top six wingers and then complained that he wasn't in the top six and then refused his assignments to the A.

All of these attempts to vindicate VK are really just grasping at straws, and trying to paint Fox in the same light is actually kind of pathetic.

Nah. There were plenty of rumors of him not wanting to be in Calgary. I’m not going to dig them up. He was traded. And relax, not one person here is trying to paint anything.  Everyone loves Fox here in NY because we benefited heavily. It’s not about trying to paint Fox in any way. It’s about how this is 2021. Players in ALL sports do shit like this. Some see it. Some dont.

 

 

why are you the only person that has to use insulting words when discussing something? I’m sorry you find it “pathetic” that I’m saying what I’m saying but if you can’t be an adult about the conversation, then don’t hit reply bro. It’s a freaking g hockey board and every single one of us are fans of the same team. Why does it have to be personal attacks that we differ in an opinion? 

[Pete]

12 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Nah. There were plenty of rumors of him not wanting to be in Calgary. I’m not going to dig them up. He was traded. And relax, not one person here is trying to paint anything.  Everyone loves Fox here in NY because we benefited heavily. It’s not about trying to paint Fox in any way. It’s about how this is 2021. Players in ALL sports do shit like this. Some see it. Some dont.

 

 

why are you the only person that has to use insulting words when discussing something? I’m sorry you find it “pathetic” that I’m saying what I’m saying but if you can’t be an adult about the conversation, then don’t hit reply bro. It’s a freaking g hockey board and every single one of us are fans of the same team. Why does it have to be personal attacks that we differ in an opinion? 

I'm not the only person who uses insulting words, you could take a look in the mirror to see another one...come one guy. You're no saint. "it's a freaking hockey board" but you're no different homie, I know you think you are but you're not.

...or you can ask the guy who asked of Kravtsov fucked my wife...guess you thought that was cool cuz I don't see you asking him why he's using insulting words.

Fox didn't want to play in Calgary because they had a deep defensive pool of prospects, and so did Carolina... How do you come to the conclusion that he told them not to draft him? 

Some people understand there's a massive difference between Fox and VK. Some don't. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Pete

[Keirik]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm not the only person who uses insulting words, you could take a look in the mirror to see another one...come one guy. You're no saint. "it's a freaking hockey board" but you're no different homie, I know you think you are but you're not.

...or you can ask the guy who asked of Kravtsov fucked my wife...guess you thought that was cool cuz I don't see you asking him why he's using insulting words.

Fox didn't want to play in Calgary because they had a deep defensive pool of prospects, and so did Carolina... How do you come to the conclusion that he told them not to draft him? 

Some people understand there's a massive difference between Fox and VK. Some don't. 

Where am I saying anything insulting?  What another person says to you has very little to do with my opinion on a situation but I’d assume that’s a joke to be honest. You’re specifically telling me that my opinion is pathetic. That’s just unnecessary and probably can be left out. 

   Maybe fox leaving Calgary was a hockey trade. He was a piece so it’s possible. However Fox himself was quoted in newsday today I believe saying he would expect to be booed in Calgary.  Players don’t say that when they were traded without any input in it. Im pretty sure his drafting went along the way of “okay Flames drafted me? Alright, tell them I’m opting for college instead” Plus there is him forcing a trade from Carolina too which went along the lines of “if you don’t trade me to where I want to go, I’m again opting to stay in college.” . Can’t just ignore it because it helped us. Not if we are going to vilify another player for using a bit of leverage too. Im not sure he will get booed in Carolina since I don’t trust that fan base being anywhere near as educated on a player situation as a Canadian fanbase but possible. 
 

 

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Where am I saying anything insulting?  What another person says to you has very little to do with my opinion on a situation but I’d assume that’s a joke to be honest. You’re specifically telling me that my opinion is pathetic. That’s just unnecessary and probably can be left out. 

   Maybe fox leaving Calgary was a hockey trade. He was a piece so it’s possible. However Fox himself was quoted in newsday today I believe saying he would expect to be booed in Calgary.  Players don’t say that when they were traded without any input in it. Im pretty sure his drafting went along the way of “okay Flames drafted me? Alright, tell them I’m opting for college instead” Plus there is him forcing a trade from Carolina too which went along the lines of “if you don’t trade me to where I want to go, I’m again opting to stay in college.” . Can’t just ignore it because it helped us. Not if we are going to vilify another player for using a bit of leverage too. Im not sure he will get booed in Carolina since I don’t trust that fan base being anywhere near as educated on a player situation as a Canadian fanbase but possible. 
 

 

Again, if VK didn't sign here because of depth of position, I get it. 

However, he didn't do that, he signed... And again Fox used the leverage granted to him by the CBA and VK did not...

You're just making wild assumptions on this quest to vindicate VK from acting like an asshole.

Fox isn't the first player not to want to play for the team who drafted him, however VK is one of the only players to act the way he's acting after signing an entry-level contract.

[Keirik]

Just now, Pete said:

Again, if VK didn't sign here because of depth of position, I get it. 

However, he didn't do that, he signed... And again Fox used the leverage granted to him by the CBA and VK did not...

You're just making wild assumptions on this quest to vindicate VK from acting like an asshole.

Fox isn't the first player not to want to play for the team who drafted him, however VK is one of the only players to act the way he's acting after signing an entry-level contract.

Nope. I’m not making any wild arguments or on any quest. Hell, Kravtsov isn’t even the only Ranger to do this recently. Lias. I’m just pointing out how we are vilifying a guy when we have a guy other fanbase are vilifying too. Perspective is everything. 
   If you don’t agree with me fine. We can disagree. I’ve just watched us benefit from an NCAA loophole that is within the CBA, but a bit unethical if you ask me. We just have been on the winning side of it 3 times (well 2 since Vesey really wasn’t a win despite what that old actress lady said). 

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Nope. I’m not making any wild arguments or on any quest. Hell, Kravtsov isn’t even the only Ranger to do this recently. Lias. I’m just pointing out how we are vilifying a guy when we have a guy other fanbase are vilifying too. Perspective is everything. 
   If you don’t agree with me fine. We can disagree. I’ve just watched us benefit from an NCAA loophole that is within the CBA, but a bit unethical if you ask me. We just have been on the winning side of it 3 times (well 2 since Vesey really wasn’t a win despite what that old actress lady said). 

And I'm just saying that it's not apples to apples because VK signed the contract and Fox never did.

Putting your name on a dotted line mean something... To some people, just not to VK.

 

[Keirik]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

And I'm just saying that it's not apples to apples because VK signed the contract and Fox never did.

Putting your name on a dotted line mean something... To some people, just not to VK.

 

Well not the New York Rangers franchise either since they certainly like to buy out contracts they sign the dotted line on including a guy they are retiring the number of in two months. 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Well not the New York Rangers franchise either since they certainly like to buy out contracts they sign the dotted line on including a guy they are retiring the number of in two months. 

Which was within their rights within the CBA.

Who's not within the CBA? Kravtsov. 

Why you dragging so many other players into this when it has nothing to do with them? Like I said, a quest.

[Keirik]

Just now, Pete said:

Which was within their rights within the CBA.

Who's not within the CBA? Kravtsov. 

Why you dragging so many other players into this when it has nothing to do with them? Like I said, a quest.

Well, you said it so it must be true! I mean stop saying things about signing on a dotted line when that’s literally the least important thing in pro sports these days. Guys are bought out, forced trades, refused assignments, sent home, on both sides of pro sports for decades now. If it benefits us, hooray! If it negatively affects us, whiny bitch is used instead. Nature of the beast I suppose. 

[Pete]

Just now, Keirik said:

Well, you said it so it must be true! I mean stop saying things about signing on a dotted line when that’s literally the least important thing in pro sports these days. Guys are bought out, forced trades, refused assignments, sent home, on both sides of pro sports for decades now. If it benefits us, hooray! If it negatively affects us, whiny bitch is used instead. Nature of the beast I suppose. 

Stop clouding the issue. Some things are within the cba, and some things aren't... VK isn't. Hard stop  

[Keirik]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

Stop clouding the issue. Some things are within the cba, and some things aren't... VK isn't. Hard stop  

That’s one option. Another is that I’ll just keep giving my own opinion on the issue. You can try to simplify it all you want but it’s 45 pages long for a reason. 

[Pete]

17 minutes ago, Keirik said:

That’s one option. Another is that I’ll just keep giving my own opinion on the issue. You can try to simplify it all you want but it’s 45 pages long for a reason. 

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Not everyone is right. You and VK are wrong. 

The thread is 45 pages long because everyone here is entrenched and no one changes their mind. Doesn't mean much. 

[Keirik]

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Not everyone is right. You and VK are wrong. 

The thread is 45 pages long because everyone here is entrenched and no one changes their mind. Doesn't mean much. 

Awesome response my friend. I’d say we are done.

[Sod16]

The CBA allows you to become a UFA if you choose to forgo going pro for several years, opt for your education, and give up a couple years worth of career earnings in the process.  That's what Fox did.  Calgary and Carolina knew he had those options, and as he was pursing an education at Harvard, was likely to exercise them.  That he declined to sign with Carolina when he was on the verge of free agency says nothing.  Players decline to sign with teams when on the verge of becoming a UFA.

As has been pointed out, there is no comparison to the Kratsov situation.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

One guy refused to have anything to do with 2 orgs, the other signed his ELC in good will, got screwed over numerous times that made him not trust the FO anymore and went home to play in a more familiar (and for him better) league in the KHL. He's still Rangers property they can trade if they want to. His value has decreased, but not as much as Fox' who literally said he would not sign for the teams he was "owned by".

What's the difference here? Because VK signed a contract as a 19 year old over 2 years ago? So because of that he's a slave to Drury and The Rangers?

He felt that he was not treated right, just like probably hundreds of other players before him, but because he's a Russian who refused to play in the AHL and went back to Russia instead he's a "whiny bitch".

[Pete]

3 hours ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

What's the difference here? Because VK signed a contract

Yes. That's the difference. 

You also forgot to mention how Fox played well enough to make the team out of camp, started on the third pair, and worked his way up eventually winning a Norris.

Kravtsov did none of those things. 

Also that narrative that the team "fucked him over" is laughable. He was hurt and didn't play well enough when healthy to earn a spot. If a team tells you they want you in the top 6, the work doesn't stop. He didn't hold up his end of the bargain. 

Also has nothing to do with his nationality. Why are you even bringing that up?

Edited November 9, 2021 by Pete

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Yes. That's the difference. 

You also forgot to mention how Fox played well enough to make the team out of camp, started on the third pair, and worked his way up eventually winning a Norris.

Kravtsov did none of those things. 

Also that narrative that the team "fucked him over" is laughable. 

He didn't make the Flames or the Canes teams before he decided he was too good for them and wanted out of there.

And Kravtsov actually did those things. He was put on the 4th line for 20 games last season and played well. This season was his time to "work his way up" starting in a middle 6 winger spot, but we needed Hunt's grit on the 4th line and Blais and Goodrow in the top 9, so there was no spot for him.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

Yes. That's the difference. 

You also forgot to mention how Fox played well enough to make the team out of camp, started on the third pair, and worked his way up eventually winning a Norris.

Kravtsov did none of those things. 

Also that narrative that the team "fucked him over" is laughable. 

Expand  

He didn't make the Flames or the Canes teams before he decided he was too good for them and wanted out of there.

LOL this picture you're painting of Fox being entitled is exactly what Kravtsov is...but you're fabricating the narrative about Fox and defending Kravtsov. 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

LOL this picture you're painting of Fox being entitled is exactly what Kravtsov is...but you're fabricating the narrative about Fox and defending Kravtsov. 

LOL yourself. I've said that Kravtsov mishandled the situation and fucked up for himself, but I'm able to look at things from more than one perspective. How am I painting Fox as being entitled? I just stated the facts. He wanted out of two orgs before pulling on their shirts, if you take that as being entitled - that's on you.

I like Fox, but I can see what he did wrong.
I Like Krav, but I can see what he did wrong.

You like Fox and see no wrong in him.
you don't like Krav and you see all wrong in him.

The double standards in you man. Its funny.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

LOL yourself. I've said that Kravtsov mishandled the situation and fucked up for himself, but I'm able to look at things from more than one perspective. How am I painting Fox as being entitled? I just stated the facts. He wanted out of two orgs before pulling on their shirts, if you take that as being entitled - that's on you.

I like Fox, but I can see what he did wrong.
I Like Krav, but I can see what he did wrong.

You like Fox and see no wrong in him.
you don't like Krav and you see all wrong in him.

The double standards in you man. Its funny.

"Fox decided he was too good for 2 orgs" is fiction. He saw that he was going to be blocked on D in 2 orgs and decided not to sign.

Now if Kravtsov decided not to sign because the top 6 role he wanted was blocked, then I'd get that. But once you sign the deal you are subject to the decisions of management, you don't take your ball and go home.

And I do LOL at the fiction.

[Dunny]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

"Fox decided he was too good for 2 orgs" is fiction. He saw that he was going to be blocked on D in 2 orgs and decided not to sign.

Now if Kravtsov decided not to sign because the top 6 role he wanted was blocked, then I'd get that. But once you sign the deal you are subject to the decisions of management, you don't take your ball and go home.

And I do LOL at the fiction.

Do you apply this standard to the labour market, in general, or just professional athletes? 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Dunny

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

"Fox decided he was too good for 2 orgs" is fiction. He saw that he was going to be blocked on D in 2 orgs and decided not to sign.

Now if Kravtsov decided not to sign because the top 6 role he wanted was blocked, then I'd get that. But once you sign the deal you are subject to the decisions of management, you don't take your ball and go home.

And I do LOL at the fiction.

Ah, he was supposed to see the future. He sure should've known that Rangers would luck into back-to-back lottery picks right after he signed his ELC. And he also should've known that those two could play like dogshit and still get gifted top 6 minutes, while he barely could get 4th line minutes no matter how he played.

When he got sent down and Kakko/Laf was gifted top 6 minutes and Gauthier and Hunt would take the remaining winger spots he realised there was no spots for him and he did the same as Fox.

And the contract argument is kinda funny because you've been shitting on him for leaving for Russia last time aswell when he had a Russia outclause IN HIS CONTRACT.