Pete Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 And yes it has been reported that Tarasenko has issues with the Blues management and also with some teammates. It is also reported that he had an issue with O'Reilly being named captain and not him. So to dismiss his complaining and locker room presence is not accurate at all unless you are trying to ignore facts to support your argument. Kind of like dismissing his injury as 1 measly injury that has required three surgeries and has made him ineffective for the past 2 seasons. Also to this point he has not shown anyone that the third time has fixed his problem. He's saying he's fine but nobody has seen it during NHL play. All said and done why would the Rangers take this risk. Even if it all worked out great and Tarasenko flourishes he most likely walks as a UFA in 2 years. So unless you view this team as an immediate contender capable of winning the next two years I just don't get the upside here. Reported where? Links? Sao now you are posting the questions I should have asked so you can answer yes 10 out of 10 times. That's not how this works. I said at best he's another Kreider, at best being the key words. That's assuming he's a bull in a china shop. In 7/9 seasons he averaged 30 hits per season. In the other 2 seasons he had 80. So which player is he?Firstly, why are you equating # of hits with being hard to play against? Secondly, this stuff isn't hard to find. Says right here he hit MORE now than earlier in his career. Over a hit per game, which didn't change post injury. http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?aggregate=0&report=realtime&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20002001&seasonTo=20202021&gameType=2&playerSearch=Tarasenko&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=seasonId&page=0&pageSize=50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Reported where? Links? Firstly, why are you equating # of hits with being hard to play against? Secondly, this stuff isn't hard to find. Says right here he hit MORE now than earlier in his career. Over a hit per game, which didn't change post injury. Didn't change post history? He just couldn't stay on the ice because he was hurt with a bum shoulder that took three surgeries to fix. Or should I say we hope is fixed now. T http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?aggregate=0&report=realtime&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20002001&seasonTo=20202021&gameType=2&playerSearch=Tarasenko&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=seasonId&page=0&pageSize=50 he Rangers are in need of players (forwards) that play physical. Hits I would think would be a simple measuring stick other than just opinion. Being "hard to play against" is word games. Patrice Bergeron is "hard to play against" but that's a long way from being intimidating or physically imposing. Yes the Rangers can use players that are "hard to play against" but they also completely lack any physically imposing forwards. It's not that Tarasenko couldn't help them. It's that adding him means you are devoid of cap space to much else and you still haven't addressed the major needs of this team. Center ice and a bottom 6 with the ability to physically impose their will and be able to matchup against other teams top lines especially those with size. Tampa won nothing until they addressed there same issue. The line of Gourde Coleman Goodrow was vital to them winning. Face-offs are another problem that has to be fixed although that is more of a team problem that comes hard in hand with lack of will and grit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2021/07/08/report-vladimir-tarasenko-requests-trade-from-st-louis-blues/ https://nypost.com/2021/07/08/vladimir-tarasenko-wants-to-be-traded-as-crazy-nhl-offseason-begins/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2021/07/08/report-vladimir-tarasenko-requests-trade-from-st-louis-blues/ https://nypost.com/2021/07/08/vladimir-tarasenko-wants-to-be-traded-as-crazy-nhl-offseason-begins/What are we taking from this? These stories all reference the same report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 he Rangers are in need of players (forwards) that play physical. Hits I would think would be a simple measuring stick other than just opinion. Being "hard to play against" is word games. Patrice Bergeron is "hard to play against" but that's a long way from being intimidating or physically imposing. Yes the Rangers can use players that are "hard to play against" but they also completely lack any physically imposing forwards. It's not that Tarasenko couldn't help them. It's that adding him means you are devoid of cap space to much else and you still haven't addressed the major needs of this team. Center ice and a bottom 6 with the ability to physically impose their will and be able to matchup against other teams top lines especially those with size. Tampa won nothing until they addressed there same issue. The line of Gourde Coleman Goodrow was vital to them winning. Face-offs are another problem that has to be fixed although that is more of a team problem that comes hard in hand with lack of will and grit.Explain how moving a player (Buch) who's probably going to get $6+ for long term for a player making $7.5 for 2 seasons leaves the team without cap space. I'll save you the trouble. It doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Explain how moving a player (Buch) who's probably going to get $6+ for long term for a player making $7.5 for 2 seasons leaves the team without cap space. I'll save you the trouble. It doesn't. I'm not bringing back Buch for the same reason. Difference is that Buch is under Ranger control and is a RFA. He can be traded to address our areas of need by dealing from the area of strength on the Rangers roster. Additionally dealing him instead of signing him helps balance out how we are spending our cap space. Furthermore you keep saying that Buch is going to get the same type contract as Tarasenko. Great let some team sign him for $7.5M as a RFA and I will laugh all the way to the bank with the compensation of 1st,2nd,and 3rd round pick. Now tell me who is trading that package for Buch, I will save you the time, NO ONE. So I'm never giving him that contract. I'm trading him all day long and addressing the issues I have discussed over and over. Buch or Tarasenko don't address those issues and that's why neither would be wearing a Rangers jersey if it was up to me. It doesn't mean I don't value Buch as a good player. He's just more of what we already have and unfortunately for him he's the one who is going to hit UFA first and needs a new contract now. I'm using him as my best trade piece and I'm not trading him for another skilled winger. Again obviously skilled wingers have value, but in a cap world we have other pressing needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I'm not bringing back Buch for the same reason. Difference is that Buch is under Ranger control and is a RFA. He can be traded to address our areas of need by dealing from the area of strength on the Rangers roster. Additionally dealing him instead of signing him helps balance out how we are spending our cap space. Furthermore you keep saying that Buch is going to get the same type contract as Tarasenko. Great let some team sign him for $7.5M as a RFA and I will laugh all the way to the bank with the compensation of 1st,2nd,and 3rd round pick. Now tell me who is trading that package for Buch, I will save you the time, NO ONE. So I'm never giving him that contract. I'm trading him all day long and addressing the issues I have discussed over and over. Buch or Tarasenko don't address those issues and that's why neither would be wearing a Rangers jersey if it was up to me. It doesn't mean I don't value Buch as a good player. He's just more of what we already have and unfortunately for him he's the one who is going to hit UFA first and needs a new contract now. I'm using him as my best trade piece and I'm not trading him for another skilled winger. Again obviously skilled wingers have value, but in a cap world we have other pressing needs. But what happens when there isn't a trade for what you're looking to add? Just don't sign Buchnevich? I think you're shorting Buch by saying he's more of the same. He's probably the teams most gritty forward. As sad as that is, it's a fact. I also think people are once again exaggerating potential contracts. I don't think Buchnevich breaks 6 million. More likely 5.5/5.8. Do you give him THAT kind of money? I'm with you on not trading Buch for a guy coming off a third surgery. BUT, the player you seek may not be available or available for whom you are willing to trade. If you're willing to deal Buchnevich for a 3rd or 4th liner, you're wasting an asset and a player who has grown into a well rounded forward. If that's the plan, then I'd rather deal him for the questionable health of the guy coming off the 3 surgeries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMinutesForNothing Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 I'm all in. Incredible player, incredible opportunity to buy low on top of his no trade, and very affordable price with potential for salary retention. It doesn't get any better. He and Panarin would be gods among men together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Rangers Overview: It’s been a shocking summer in New York, where new GM and president Chris Drury and head coach Gerard Gallant are now in charge. The Rangers have played in just one postseason series in the past four years (they were swept by Carolina in the 2019-20 qualifying round), so the pressure will be on even with a new regime. There’s been a lot of speculation in the Big Apple about being the landing spot for Buffalo’s Jack Eichel, which would take priority over a Tarasenko deal. Potential trade package: Right winger Vitali Kravtsov and left-shot defenseman Libor Hajek Rutherford’s thoughts: The Rangers could have drafted Tarasenko in 2010, but at No. 10, they took defenseman Dylan McIlrath. He spent just 38 games in New York and is now with Detroit’s AHL affiliate. Do they want Tarasenko 11 years later? He’d love to play with his pal Artemi Panarin, but they need a center and some grit. This trade could be plausible, though, if the Blues are getting either Kravtsov or Pavel Buchnevich, along with Hajek, who may be available because the Rangers have better young defensemen in the pipeline. Pronman’s thoughts: The Rangers have a ton of good wingers, so in order to make this deal work in all likelihood one has to go the other way. Alexis Lafreni?re and Kaapo Kakko are non-starters, so the most obvious candidate is Kravtsov. He was a top 10 pick by the Rangers, but it would be fair to say if you redid that draft now, based on talks with NHL scouts, he would go in the teens or 20s in all likelihood. He is a highly skilled playmaker with size whose game lacks speed. Hajek is a very good skating defenseman with a good frame but lacks ideal skill and puck-moving instincts. Link: https://theathletic.com/2698518/2021/07/12/vladimir-tarasenko-trade-packages-what-the-rangers-islanders-knights-bruins-and-flyers-could-offer-the-blues/ No interest in moving Kravtsov here, nor do I think it makes sense salary-wise. Buch and Hajek, though? I probably make that deal. Looking at the offers there it seems like Tarasenko has some pretty low value. I'm cool with what's effectively Buch straight up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 If that's on the table, that's a "cannot say no" offer for us. Buch and Hajek for Tarasenko is a total no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Kravstov? Yeah, I don't think so. Buch and Hajek is an absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 If that's on the table, that's a "cannot say no" offer for us. Buch and Hajek for Tarasenko is a total no-brainer. At that point, I’m definitely in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 such a 90s Rangers move. Until he proves himself... If not, they can sign him as an UFA in a few seasons if he wants to play in NY so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Link: https://theathletic.com/2698518/2021/07/12/vladimir-tarasenko-trade-packages-what-the-rangers-islanders-knights-bruins-and-flyers-could-offer-the-blues/ No interest in moving Kravtsov here, nor do I think it makes sense salary-wise. Buch and Hajek, though? I probably make that deal. Looking at the offers there it seems like Tarasenko has some pretty low value. I'm cool with what's effectively Buch straight up. Agreed. Kravtsov is a non-starter for Tarasenko. Go pound sand in that case. If that's on the table, that's a "cannot say no" offer for us. Buch and Hajek for Tarasenko is a total no-brainer. I think the Rangers are in a great spot to roll the dice like this because they have the depth at wing to do it. The best case is they get a 30-40 goal 70 point player for pennies on the dollar. The worst case is he doesn't return to form and we have to rely a lot more on both Kakko and Kravtsov...and he'd be gone in 2 years anyway so not a long term risk. I roll the dice all day long here, though I'd prefer other options first if attainable (Tkachuk). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Agreed. Kravtsov is a non-starter for Tarasenko. Go pound sand in that case. I think the Rangers are in a great spot to roll the dice like this because they have the depth at wing to do it. The best case is they get a 30-40 goal 70 point player for pennies on the dollar. The worst case is he doesn't return to form and we have to rely a lot more on both Kakko and Kravtsov...and he'd be gone in 2 years anyway so not a long term risk. I roll the dice all day long here, though I'd prefer other options first if attainable (Tkachuk). Exactly this. The fact he's signed for just two more years is exactly why this is so palatable. This isn't like trying to pick up Kessel or Eichel with seven plus years left on the deal. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 Interesting tidbit in Seravelli's Trade Targets here... We reported last month that Tarasenko provided the Blues with several teams to which he’d accept a trade, in search of a change of scenery. This is a mutual parting of the ways. After two botched shoulder surgeries which cost him the bulk of the last two seasons, Tarasenko underwent a third procedure in Colorado that has him back to full strength. When healthy, Tarasenko was one of the unquestioned most consistent snipers in the NHL, registering five straight 30-goal seasons before being beset by injury. That should ease a few minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 such a 90s Rangers move. Until he proves himself... If not, they can sign him as an UFA in a few seasons if he wants to play in NY so badly. I totally get the perception here. It does seem like "chasing the shiny toy", but I'll make the argument that it is not. This is buying very low on a player who has been a difference maker for quite some time. He's not old, only 30. It's a short term (2 years). Old Rangers sign guys like this to 7 year deals and wonder why it doesn't work out. The term is everything here. If he was 4 or 5 years, I'd be easily walking away from the idea. Smart GMs buy low on guys like this. The stock is at an all time low. If best case scenario is met and he returns to form, we have a very serious 2 year Stanley Cup window within our overarching 10 year Cup window that is set up right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 I totally get the perception here. It does seem like "chasing the shiny toy", but I'll make the argument that it is not. This is buying very low on a player who has been a difference maker for quite some time. He's not old, only 30. It's a short term (2 years). Old Rangers sign guys like this to 7 year deals and wonder why it doesn't work out. The term is everything here. If he was 4 or 5 years, I'd be easily walking away from the idea. Smart GMs buy low on guys like this. The stock is at an all time low. If best case scenario is met and he returns to form, we have a very serious 2 year Stanley Cup window within our overarching 10 year Cup window that is set up right now. I just think about a guy like Tarasenko hitting so many of those checkmarks. He's a leader - we know this - and it stung him to not get recognized for his work in STL with the captaincy. He can score goals like a motherfucker He's a big body - hard to play against Isn't that...like exactly what we want Kakko and Kravtsov to learn how to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 If that's on the table, that's a "cannot say no" offer for us. Buch and Hajek for Tarasenko is a total no-brainer. I totally get the perception here. It does seem like "chasing the shiny toy", but I'll make the argument that it is not. This is buying very low on a player who has been a difference maker for quite some time. He's not old, only 30. It's a short term (2 years). Old Rangers sign guys like this to 7 year deals and wonder why it doesn't work out. The term is everything here. If he was 4 or 5 years, I'd be easily walking away from the idea. Smart GMs buy low on guys like this. The stock is at an all time low. If best case scenario is met and he returns to form, we have a very serious 2 year Stanley Cup window within our overarching 10 year Cup window that is set up right now. ....just not for Kravtsov... For Buch and Hajek? Hell yeah!!! ...That seems like a good deal for both teams. St Louis gets rid of an "issue", and continue their "re-tooling" process, they get a solid replacement in Buch, and a young depth defenseman with some experience with Hajek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I totally get the perception here. It does seem like "chasing the shiny toy", but I'll make the argument that it is not. This is buying very low on a player who has been a difference maker for quite some time. He's not old, only 30. It's a short term (2 years). Old Rangers sign guys like this to 7 year deals and wonder why it doesn't work out. The term is everything here. If he was 4 or 5 years, I'd be easily walking away from the idea. Smart GMs buy low on guys like this. The stock is at an all time low. If best case scenario is met and he returns to form, we have a very serious 2 year Stanley Cup window within our overarching 10 year Cup window that is set up right now. Buchnevich + isn’t buying low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Buchnevich + isn’t buying low. Maybe low wasn't the right word to use. I don't want to reduce the value I think Buch carries. I mean low in terms of Tarasenko's trade value historically. I don't think Buch would get you in a conversation for Tarasenko if he pumped up his usual stats last year. Maybe "discount" is a better way of putting it. I like discounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I just think about a guy like Tarasenko hitting so many of those checkmarks. He's a leader - we know this - and it stung him to not get recognized for his work in STL with the captaincy. He can score goals like a motherfucker He's a big body - hard to play against Isn't that...like exactly what we want Kakko and Kravtsov to learn how to do? He also has a pretty significant playoff resume. The team needs more veterans who do and he's a proven playoff scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 at this point Buch for Tarasenko is overpayment IMO. Buch is in his prime and shoould be able to get you a long term NHLer in the position you need most. If Tarasenko busts, you basically lost two NHLers for nothing. like Josh said, such a typical old time ranger move 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 at this point Buch for Tarasenko is overpayment IMO. Buch is in his prime and shoould be able to get you a long term NHLer in the position you need most. If Tarasenko busts, you basically lost two NHLers for nothing. like Josh said, such a typical old time ranger move Agree with this. I’d rather have Buch than the next 2 years of Tarasenko. Especially since Buch has really developed into an excellent two-way, 200 foot player. He may never develop into the explosive scorer that a healthy Tarasenko can be. But he’s also 3 1/2 years younger and a more complete player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Agree with this. I’d rather have Buch than the next 2 years of Tarasenko. Especially since Buch has really developed into an excellent two-way, 200 foot player. He may never develop into the explosive scorer that a healthy Tarasenko can be. But he’s also 3 1/2 years younger and a more complete player. Yet Tarasenko has received Selke votes and Buch has not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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