Report Tarasenko Requests Trade from Blues; Rangers an Option?

[Pete]

There's no glaring need at center. The glaring need is for a player who's willing to shoot the puck in the top 6. That's not Buch.

 

Yes there is a cap.... And Buch is going to be making close to what Tarasenko makes, probably for longer, after 1 year of top production. So we're willing to pay Buch for 1 good year and say Tarasenko is done at 29 because of a bad one? Talk about recency bias.

[Pete]

I don't want Eichel either. He's missed most of the past two seasons with injury. When he has played he's been bad. No the Rangers need is not on the wing. In a cap free environment ok but with the hard cap the Rangers have more pressing needs. Buch is way safer bet so why not just resign him?

 

Who's to say if you are getting Taranseko from 3 years ago? Even if you are $7.5M cap hit is going to be a problem.

You realize Buch is going to get close to $7, for longer than the next 2 seasons, right?

[Pete]

https://www.stlouisgametime.com/platform/amp/2020/12/29/22205505/vladimir-tarasenko-sheds-light-on-shoulder-captaincy-and-more-in-russian-interview

 

The good

 

 

The bad

 

 

 

The ugly

Whining about the captaincy

Talk about cherry picked quotes lol.

 

More on the shoulder.

He recently underwent his third shoulder surgery and missed nearly the entirety of the 2019-20 season with isssues.

 

Well, in the interview, he explains that there was a bit more to it than that. At almost the exact same time as Tarasenko got hurt, his grandfather passed away. This was... incredibly difficult on Tarasenko. He goes on in extreme detail about how powerful of a figure his grandpa was in his life, citing the great personality and confidence he had. Tarasenko then says that, because of his surgery, he wasn’t able to attend his grandfather’s funeral. That’s... tough. And it really weighed on Tarasenko. He was asked if this was the hardest season of his career because of the injury and death in the family.

In regards to future injury-worries, though, Tarasenko sounded confident. He said that the doctors have properly found, and addressed, the issue that was plaguing his shoulder. All parties seem confident that things will be alleviated moving forward. His surgery from October of 2019 didn’t properly fix everything up, hence the issues and the need for another, but he should be on the home-stretch now.

 

There was no whining about the captaincy at all. Just disappointment, and it was his agent who was vocal.

“Of course, when you play 8 years and are a long time assistant, then you can be disappointed. We’ve played with Schwartz on STL longer than anybody on the team. But upper management reached the decision and I dont see a point in arguing it. I had hope but it is what it is. Only thing left is to take it and go out and play”

 

“I repeat, I had hopes. I think its normal to appoint someone a leader after 8 years on a team. But everyone has their own opinion, Alexei said that and he has his right. This is probably just the time for intrigue. Personally I’m focused on getting back from injury. I have to start showing my hockey and get better. Because many people that are talking say that ‘Tarasenko will never play the same’. I have a lot of reasons to prove people wrong.”

[Albatrosss]

I don't remember him playing like a bull in a china shop but it's been so long since he's played maybe I'm wrong.

 

Do you not give any worry that the player hasn't been the same guy for years? Tarasenko agent comes out and says third times the charm he's fine now and poof his injury history is gone?

 

You ask if we need that kind of player. That is an incomplete question. There is a cap, we are currently deep own the wings with players developing that need the opportunity and ice time there. We have Fox and Zib eyeing massive contracts next summer. The Rangers have a glaring need at center, need to bulk up throughout their lineup and really could use a shut down left-handed defenseman. More than anything they have to become tougher to play against. This is not a one player fix. Binging in Tarasenko basically makes that goal much harder with the money they will have to work with. Tarasenko doesn't make them any more formidable to the Isles or Caps. The Rangers aren't lacking the skill to compete with those teams they are lacking the will and belligerence.

 

We can have a discussion to what Tarasenko is as a player and was as a player. We are guessing at this point at what he is currently. To say we need to watch him play has nothing to do with this and frankly it's it's ridiculous to simplify the argument to just one factor. I for one know exactly what he was. What he was is not a player that fixes the Rangers needs. He was an elite goal scorer who is built like a brick shit house. He was never a physical player though. He was/is paid $7.5M a year. Nobody has seen that elite player in years. The Rangers while pushing to be a playoff team next year are still building. Having Tarasenko for 2 years does what here beside block others on the depth chart. Are the Rangers really situated to resign him 2 years from now even if it did work out? I doubt it. They are already over invested at wing.

+1

[Capt]

There's no glaring need at center. The glaring need is for a player who's willing to shoot the puck in the top 6. That's not Buch.

 

Yes there is a cap.... And Buch is going to be making close to what Tarasenko makes, probably for longer, after 1 year of top production. So we're willing to pay Buch for 1 good year and say Tarasenko is done at 29 because of a bad one? Talk about recency bias.

 

Huh? The Rangers are not lacking goal scoring and Zib is a shoot first top 6 player if there ever was one. As far as Buch goes you're right and it's why I want nothing to do with extending him. I'm using him as the center piece in a trade to bring in some meat and potatoes. I'm not using his cap space and roster spot to bring in a shoot first injury prone 29 year old with 2 years left at $7.5M cap hit.

 

So you don't think they need a center, that's you're opinion and that's great. I'm not convinced Ryan Strome is a top 6 center on a cup contending team and with Zib as your other top 6 center that leaves the team with two top 6 centers coming to the rink with a purse. One of them needs to be moved for somebody who won't shrink when the game gets heavy. As far as their bottom 6 the only legit NHL center is Rooney who is at best a fourth line player. Add in that none of them can win a face-off and yeah there is a need for a center probably two.

 

For all the great numbers Strome and Zib have put up matched with Panarin's MVP season and Fox's Norris season the Rangers are still not a playoff hockey team. That's the case not because they don't score enough. They don't need more fancy players who are jealous of teammates and judge success by their own stat line. They need winners and they need foot soldiers who will do everything and anything to win. That is not Tarasenko. The fit for Tarasenko is the Isles who are lacking g the scoring but have the will in spades. To bad they don't have the cap space.

[Pete]

Huh? The Rangers are not lacking goal scoring and Zib is a shoot first top 6 player if there ever was one. As far as Buch goes you're right and it's why I want nothing to do with extending him. I'm using him as the center piece in a trade to bring in some meat and potatoes. I'm not using his cap space and roster spot to bring in a shoot first injury prone 29 year old with 2 years left at $7.5M cap hit.

Zib was 16th in total shots last season, and many of the players ahead of him did not play in all 56 games. Meat and potatoes? Tarasenko plays much heavier than Buch and we're also swapping Thomas who is more physical than Chytil. I'm not even addressing the "injury prone" narrative you're pushing. Guy had one shoulder injury that went unrepaired by Blues doctors, which is why he's asking for a trade. In the seasons before the shoulder he went 80/82/80/76. That's not injury prone.

 

So you don't think they need a center, that's you're opinion and that's great. I'm not convinced Ryan Strome is a top 6 center on a cup contending team and with Zib as your other top 6 center that leaves the team with two top 6 centers coming to the rink with a purse. One of them needs to be moved for somebody who won't shrink when the game gets heavy. As far as their bottom 6 the only legit NHL center is Rooney who is at best a fourth line player. Add in that none of them can win a face-off and yeah there is a need for a center probably two.

Cool. We're getting Thomas in my proposal and there's still no "glaring" need for a C.

 

For all the great numbers Strome and Zib have put up matched with Panarin's MVP season and Fox's Norris season the Rangers are still not a playoff hockey team. That's the case not because they don't score enough. They don't need more fancy players who are jealous of teammates and judge success by their own stat line. They need winners and they need foot soldiers who will do everything and anything to win. That is not Tarasenko. The fit for Tarasenko is the Isles who are lacking g the scoring but have the will in spades. To bad they don't have the cap space.

This is completely fabrication and not worth addressing.

[BrooksBurner]

Zib was 16th in total shots last season, and many of the players ahead of him did not play in all 56 games. Meat and potatoes? Tarasenko plays much heavier than Buch and we're also swapping Thomas who is more physical than Chytil. I'm not even addressing the "injury prone" narrative you're pushing. Guy had one shoulder injury that went unrepaired by Blues doctors, which is why he's asking for a trade. In the seasons before the shoulder he went 80/82/80/76. That's not injury prone.

 

Cool. We're getting Thomas in my proposal and there's still no "glaring" need for a C.

 

This is completely fabrication and not worth addressing.

 

No. No he's not. He's not a physical player at all. He's talented with potential, just like Chytil, but he's wholly more of the same style as what we've got down the middle already...and like I mentioned previously, he's bad at faceoffs too so it's just another checkmark against.

 

Yes to Tarasenko. Just say no to Thomas.

[LindG1000]

Especially when I think Buch for tarasenko in itself is a lateral move with slight upside in talent but notch back to even with career arch. Buch trending up while vlad trending down. Just keep top 6 what we have. It’s not our problem.

 

It's something of a gamble depending on Buch. Vlad will not trend down mightily in the remainder of his deal, but yeah...if you can get Buch at the right rate for the right term, I can see this being a bit of a tossup. I'm more willing to bet on Tarasenko being the better player versus term for the next two or three years though since I thing the number on Buch will be higher than we expect.

[LindG1000]

No. No he's not. He's not a physical player at all. He's talented with potential, just like Chytil, but he's wholly more of the same style as what we've got down the middle already...and like I mentioned previously, he's bad at faceoffs too so it's just another checkmark against.

 

Yes to Tarasenko. Just say no to Thomas.

 

I think Thomas has a good deal of upside that's worth acquiring, but if you're looking to get a player who better meets the needs, we could talk about a guy like Sanford. The Blues have the sort of centers we need but they're thinking retool more than rebuild, so it's hard to look at Schenn or O'Reilly and think they're being dealt.

 

That said, OReilly should absolutely be a 2022 or 2023 TDL target for us

[Ozzy]

There's no glaring need at center. The glaring need is for a player who's willing to shoot the puck in the top 6. That's not Buch.

 

Yes there is a cap.... And Buch is going to be making close to what Tarasenko makes, probably for longer, after 1 year of top production. So we're willing to pay Buch for 1 good year and say Tarasenko is done at 29 because of a bad one? Talk about recency bias.

 

I think Buchnevich is the perfect "Sell High" candidate. Buch is probably going to command somewhere near $6.5 million, and I'm not sure he's going to be "that" player for us. This would be the perfect time to package him with another asset and fill some needs.

 

I don't know if the Rangers will trade for Tarasenko, but this type of trade is something I would expect to see very soon.

[BrooksBurner]

You realize Buch is going to get close to $7, for longer than the next 2 seasons, right?

 

I thought this too for both Buch and Strome, but now I'm not so sure. If they really want to keep either or both, they could do that 8 year low aav (5m) style, like was posed for Strome already by G/Phil. Not that I agree with it, just that the market is weird right now.

[Pete]

No. No he's not. He's not a physical player at all. He's talented with potential, just like Chytil, but he's wholly more of the same style as what we've got down the middle already...and like I mentioned previously, he's bad at faceoffs too so it's just another checkmark against.

 

Yes to Tarasenko. Just say no to Thomas.

 

Agree to disagree. Thomas goes to hard areas, Chytil doesn't. Thomas doesn't shrink from physicality, Chytil plays small.

 

Again, you're not going to get Getzlaf 2.0, or ROR...This team would benefit just as much from Brendan Gallagher. It's a mindset.

[BrooksBurner]

I think Thomas has a good deal of upside that's worth acquiring, but if you're looking to get a player who better meets the needs, we could talk about a guy like Sanford. The Blues have the sort of centers we need but they're thinking retool more than rebuild, so it's hard to look at Schenn or O'Reilly and think they're being dealt.

 

That said, OReilly should absolutely be a 2022 or 2023 TDL target for us

 

I don't see Thomas' upside being more than Chytil, but I don't disagree the upside is there. It just doesn't solve anything for either team to include them.

 

Buch for Tarasenko straight up makes a lot of sense for both teams here, and I feel like I'm one of Buch's biggest proponents on the board.

[Pete]

I think Buchnevich is the perfect "Sell High" candidate. Buch is probably going to command somewhere near $6.5 million, and I'm not sure he's going to be "that" player for us. This would be the perfect time to package him with another asset and fill some needs.

 

I don't know if the Rangers will trade for Tarasenko, but this type of trade is something I would expect to see very soon.

 

They probably aren't. Just came up because he asked for a trade and he shares an agent (and is close with) Panarin. But so far, I have not seen a valid reason not to explore it. Shoulder concerns? OK, if he doesn't pass a physical you don't complete the trade.

 

I'm just pushing back on false narratives being posted (injury prone, selfish/complainer, etc.)

[josh]

Buch demanding 7x7 makes the trade a little easier to consider.

 

But does it for the Blues?

[Pete]

I thought this too for both Buch and Strome, but now I'm not so sure. If they really want to keep either or both, they could do that 8 year low aav (5m) style, like was posed for Strome already by G/Phil. Not that I agree with it, just that the market is weird right now.

 

I guess. I think they're motivated by different things. Strome really seems to love it and has found a home here (not that Buch doesn't) after being on 2 shitty teams in LI and EDM. I think he would take term/stability after 2 productive seasons. Buch may be looking to cash in on his career year (in a contract season).

[LindG1000]

I don't see Thomas' upside being more than Chytil, but I don't disagree the upside is there. It just doesn't solve anything for either team to include them.

 

Buch for Tarasenko straight up makes a lot of sense for both teams here, and I feel like I'm one of Buch's biggest proponents on the board.

 

Fully agreed on the straight up making a good deal of sense - pending Buch's demands.

 

It's interesting to think this through because I think the Rangers are good trade partners for the Blues, but the Blues are not good trade partners for the Rangers....yet (what we want, they won't give, but what they want, we have in spades). They're like the Bruins - the cupboards are bare, the Cup is won, there's not much to look forward to - maybe you're still excited about Kostin or Torpochenko, but that's a real rough place to be from a prospect perspective.

 

Tarasenko's demanding out, Parayko's in his contract year, O'Reilly's out in two years, and at the same time they're locked into Schenn, Krug, Binnington, and Faulk at 6-6.5m tickets for six more years each (actually 7 for Schenn) - not bad players, but all are at or around 30 right now. They probably don't get to be fun and competitive until the cap goes up, and if Tarasenko wants out, you've already lost Pietrangelo, and this is your situation - a smart GM might just say "fuck it", sell out, and hope they're just bad enough to snag a top center in the draft over the next 2 seasons.

[josh]

I could pass a physical but my shoulder is shot.

 

I take 2 slap shots and it hurts for a week. And this is from an injury when I was playing in college.

[LindG1000]

Buch demanding 7x7 makes the trade a little easier to consider.

 

But does it for the Blues?

 

I threw it in the other thread on Eichel that I should probably prune into the Tarasenko deal, but the Blues have two choices - replace Tarasenko and push right now with the 5 30-ish year olds they've got locked in at 6M-6.5M deals through 2027, or blow it up because the guy who can really score wants out and you've lost your franchise D.

 

If option A, Buch makes a fuckton of sense.

If option B, we should probably be talking about what pieces need to go to STL to bring O'Reilly out. I still think that's a pipe dream, because the Blues have (at least prior to this) outwardly stated they intend to retool, but I'd be surprised if they deal Tarasenko and get a return that leaves them competitive.

[LindG1000]

I don't remember him playing like a bull in a china shop but it's been so long since he's played maybe I'm wrong.

 

Do you not give any worry that the player hasn't been the same guy for years? Tarasenko agent comes out and says third times the charm he's fine now and poof his injury history is gone?

 

You ask if we need that kind of player. That is an incomplete question. There is a cap, we are currently deep own the wings with players developing that need the opportunity and ice time there. We have Fox and Zib eyeing massive contracts next summer. The Rangers have a glaring need at center, need to bulk up throughout their lineup and really could use a shut down left-handed defenseman. More than anything they have to become tougher to play against. This is not a one player fix. Binging in Tarasenko basically makes that goal much harder with the money they will have to work with. Tarasenko doesn't make them any more formidable to the Isles or Caps. The Rangers aren't lacking the skill to compete with those teams they are lacking the will and belligerence.

 

We can have a discussion to what Tarasenko is as a player and was as a player. We are guessing at this point at what he is currently. To say we need to watch him play has nothing to do with this and frankly it's it's ridiculous to simplify the argument to just one factor. I for one know exactly what he was. What he was is not a player that fixes the Rangers needs. He was an elite goal scorer who is built like a brick shit house. He was never a physical player though. He was/is paid $7.5M a year. Nobody has seen that elite player in years. The Rangers while pushing to be a playoff team next year are still building. Having Tarasenko for 2 years does what here beside block others on the depth chart. Are the Rangers really situated to resign him 2 years from now even if it did work out? I doubt it. They are already over invested at wing.

 

Eh. Not really. It feels that way because of the pandemic, but he's really been dealing with a single injury that his team misdiagnosed for two years. We've barely seen him play on a declining team. If that's fixed - yeah, I'm willing to take a swing on a guy like that. He'd hardly be the first "but he's always hurt" guy we've acquired and seen thrive here. Let's not pretend his glory days are all behind him because he dealt with one injury and then the pandemic screwed up our perceptions of time - it's been two seasons, one of which was the incomplete surgery, the other of which was the right one. He's still got years in him.

 

As for do we need him? Yeah, we could. He's an option. We're deep on LW - we are not cap deep on RW (though we are about to start being cap deep on RW with Buchnevich). The question boils down to "Is Tarasenko going to deliver more value than Buchnevich relative to price and term?" - and if Buch comes in over 6 as we all expect, it's probably Tarasenko who ends up being the better value. He also only has two years left, so if he doesn't work out or warrants a pay decrease when all those bigger contracts need to happen, it's a ton easier to navigate.

 

He's not a "must get", but he's absolutely an option we should be considering. He's real hard to play against, isn't afraid to use his size and body, can score a ton of goals, and will be much, much less cap restrictive than Buchnevich will be simply because of term. Remember that we're not in real cap trouble until 2023-24 when it's time to figure out Lafreniere and Miller - the next few seasons are actually quite simple to navigate right now.

[Ozzy]

They probably aren't. Just came up because he asked for a trade and he shares an agent (and is close with) Panarin. But so far, I have not seen a valid reason not to explore it. Shoulder concerns? OK, if he doesn't pass a physical you don't complete the trade.

 

I'm just pushing back on false narratives being posted (injury prone, selfish/complainer, etc.)

 

I've been reading your reasoning behind it and I agree with your point, Pete. It's a very well thought out "hockey trade" that should, and in this case, takes both sides into account. I'll also bet there are other players we haven't even thought of yet that are being put under the microscope.

 

But definitely man!!! I like where this is going, and I've been glued to this thread! :thumbs:

[torontonyr]

Resurfacing because I haven't seen an answer:

 

Is there any world where we land Eichel AND Tarasenko?

 

Again, not a cap expert, but would this be possible with some retention?

[CBrowningPI]

If you were to put Strome in place of Chytil on that deal then I'm all in on it. Panarin, Thomas, Vlad

[josh]

Resurfacing because I haven't seen an answer:

 

Is there any world where we land Eichel AND Tarasenko?

 

Again, not a cap expert, but would this be possible with some retention?

 

For one season, sure.

Assuming Buch is gone. The next season you have Zibanejad, Strome*, one of* Kravtsov/Kakko, and Fox.

 

The next season you have Miller, Jones, Lafreniere dye raises.

 

You’d have to lose Buch, Zibanejad, Strome, Kakko, etc to fit the cap.

 

They’re already going to have trouble without adding 2 contracts

[Phil]

Resurfacing because I haven't seen an answer:

 

Is there any world where we land Eichel AND Tarasenko?

 

Again, not a cap expert, but would this be possible with some retention?

 

It's possible, yes, but it creates a world of problems after this coming season (depending on the extent of retention).