ThirtyONE Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Don't know this guy but at 17:30 he says our current offer is Jones, Robertson, Buch, Chytil and #15. Can’t imagine this guy has any inside info at all, but if that were the deal I’d be thrilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Can’t imagine this guy has any inside info at all, but if that were the deal I’d be thrilled. Same, if he's healthy. Would prefer Strome instead of Buch, but I could understand why Buffalo wants the better player. But yeah, this guy looks like he just got off his shift at Wendy's, and not off the phone with some insider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 It also includes Zibanejad, because he'd be gone to FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 All these proposed trades in this video are ridiculous overpays. The Eichel one is a no. I don't go over Chytil, Jones and the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 All these proposed trades in this video are ridiculous overpays. The Eichel one is a no. I don't go over Chytil, Jones and the 1st. Chytil Jones and a 1st isn’t getting you eichel and It’s probably not even getting you any top player in the league tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Chytil Jones and a 1st isn’t getting you eichel and It’s probably not even getting you any top player in the league tbh. It's enough to get a damaged goods, never made the playoffs, disgruntled player who makes 10 mill though.. Which Eichel is. Nobody is paying full price for this guy. That's all he's worth in the situation the Sabres are in IMO.. This package isn't going to get a top player in the league? I know. This offer is for Eichel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Don't know this guy but at 17:30 he says our current offer is Jones, Robertson, Buch, Chytil and #15. Interesting package.....im doing this with 2 mil in retention per year....otherwise I'm passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Vegas is in on everyone. I hope they get him. that way they can skate 14 guys instead of 15 next season when the cap shit hits the fan again. Yup. Their hasn’t been a big name on the trade or free agent market they haven’t at least kicked tires on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Interesting package.....im doing this with 2 mil in retention per year....otherwise I'm passing. Hard to imagine any retention in that deal. No truly clear cut premium piece going to Buffalo. More quantity than quality there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Hard to imagine any retention in that deal. No truly clear cut premium piece going to Buffalo. More quantity than quality there 2 pieces is the base.. and additional piece shaves 1.5 mill off via retention.. Buffalo isn’t trading from strength here, no need to bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 2 pieces is the base.. and additional piece shaves 1.5 mill off via retention.. Buffalo isn’t trading from strength here, no need to bend. Buffalo may have to trade him. Buffalo may have to take less than what they want. But they don’t have to retain salary to move him And the thing that gets teams to retain salary over a significant amount of time is only one thing: premium prospect or premium young player that the team dealing the star covets. That’s not there. For example… if hypothetically Kakko or Miller went the other way for Eichel, I’d imagine Buffalo would retain salary, or I’d want/almost expect them to. As for 2 pieces being the base… I don’t know. If Buffalo is looking for the reputed 4 piece deal, all basically equivalent to 1st round type pieces, then your base is essentially 3 pieces plus a 1st round pick. Not saying they get it. But that’s what we have to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 2 pieces is the base.. and additional piece shaves 1.5 mill off via retention.. Buffalo isn’t trading from strength here, no need to bend. But they are trading from strength. Eichel is the best player in the trade by a mile no matter who they get for him in return. This idea that they have to give him away is inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 But they are trading from strength. Eichel is the best player in the trade by a mile no matter who they get for him in return. This idea that they have to give him away is inaccurate. If Eichel isn't going to play for them (and it seems like he isn't), what leverage do they have? Their biggest "chip" is that he doesn't have trade protection so they aren't limited to where they can send him, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 If Eichel isn't going to play for them (and it seems like he isn't), what leverage do they have? Their biggest "chip" is that he doesn't have trade protection so they aren't limited to where they can send him, I guess? If they have no leverage then why are we offering anything at all? Why not just give him to us? Even if there wasn’t another team involved, the Sabres aren’t gonna accept trash for their franchise player. Having no leverage is still gonna get them 4-5 assets. Good prospects and players. If they had decent leverage we’d be talking about trading kakko, or Lafreniere or Fox or Shesterkin. But because they don’t we’re gonna have to give them nils Lundqvist or Miller along with others. This isn’t gonna be highway robbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 If they have no leverage then why are we offering anything at all? Why not just give him to us? Even if there wasn’t another team involved, the Sabres aren’t gonna accept trash for their franchise player. I'm trying to look for a comparable here, it's a unique situation, but Dany Heatley comes to mind. When going from ATL to Ottawa at 25, it was basically a 1:1 deal (Heatley for Hossa and deVries). So two players of similar talent getting moved, both in a "change of scenery" situation. Hard to find that around the league these days. Next was Heatley from OTT to SJS after an "off" season...That trade was Cheechoo, Milan Michalek and a 2nd for Heatley and a 5th, so Ottawa for sure got the shit end of the deal there. When you are dealing the best player, all you can hope for is that you're getting equal talent back, or you're addressing needs at multiple positions. The more players who are involved going the other way, let less star power those players are going to have. I think if there are 2 pieces + pick going to Buffalo, (from us) you're looking at #15, Buchnevich and D prospect. That's the most I'd do, without retention. Judging the value there gets real tricky with how much he makes in a flat cap league, and his injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMinutesForNothing Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Isn't the Rick Nash trade similar to this situation? Went for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, and 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieNextel305 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 I agree TMFN. The original rumors around the deadline had names like Kreider, McDonagh, Stepan, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 I'm trying to look for a comparable here, it's a unique situation, but Dany Heatley comes to mind. When going from ATL to Ottawa at 25, it was basically a 1:1 deal (Heatley for Hossa and deVries). So two players of similar talent getting moved, both in a "change of scenery" situation. Hard to find that around the league these days. Next was Heatley from OTT to SJS after an "off" season...That trade was Cheechoo, Milan Michalek and a 2nd for Heatley and a 5th, so Ottawa for sure got the shit end of the deal there. When you are dealing the best player, all you can hope for is that you're getting equal talent back, or you're addressing needs at multiple positions. The more players who are involved going the other way, let less star power those players are going to have. I think if there are 2 pieces + pick going to Buffalo, (from us) you're looking at #15, Buchnevich and D prospect. That's the most I'd do, without retention. Judging the value there gets real tricky with how much he makes in a flat cap league, and his injury. I actually don’t think that Buchnevich, #15, and a D prospect (let’s assume Lundkvist) going there for Eichel is a terrible return for Buffalo. It’s not amazing. But it’s not terrible. But I don’t see Buffalo retaining salary unless they’re blown away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 I actually don’t think that Buchnevich, #15, and a D prospect (let’s assume Lundkvist) going there for Eichel is a terrible return for Buffalo. It’s not amazing. But it’s not terrible. But I don’t see Buffalo retaining salary unless they’re blown away. The more I think about this it's imperative that the Rangers make them eat a good portion of his cap hit. Of course that means sweetening the pot but so be it. Trading for Eichel only to lose Zib next summer doesn't really improve things at all. So if adding Kakko or Kravtsov gets Buffalo to retain half the cap hit than maybe it makes sense although it is more painful right now for the Rangers in assets given up. I just to see the sense in trading for him if that means that Zib is out because of money. Does Chytil/Strome, Jones, 15th, Kakko or Kravtsov get it done with Buffalo holding 50% of the Eichel contract? I'd prefer that than Buch,15, and lundqvist only because I'm able to sign Zib and have Zib Eichel as my 1/2 centers for the next 5-6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Isn't the Rick Nash trade similar to this situation? Went for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, and 1st. Yes, and we're going to be tempted to look at that trade in hindsight, not in the moment. This wasn't "grinder, 3c, bust, 1st" going to CBJ; it was 26 year old tough-as-nails mid-six center, 24 year old flashy mid-six center, higher-end D prospect, 1st. That Dubinsky and Anisimov never became more than what they were with the Rangers, that Erixon busted, and that Kerby Rychel stunk doesn't change that trades like this are about perception and potential. That's probably the skeleton I'd use here - something like Chytil, Jones, 1st as the core, with Buchnevich on the table pending some other variables (i.e. retention, addition of a mid-round pick, addition of a roster player or prospect from Buffalo, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 The more I think about this it's imperative that the Rangers make them eat a good portion of his cap hit. Of course that means sweetening the pot but so be it. Trading for Eichel only to lose Zib next summer doesn't really improve things at all. So if adding Kakko or Kravtsov gets Buffalo to retain half the cap hit than maybe it makes sense although it is more painful right now for the Rangers in assets given up. I just to see the sense in trading for him if that means that Zib is out because of money. Does Chytil/Strome, Jones, 15th, Kakko or Kravtsov get it done with Buffalo holding 50% of the Eichel contract? I'd prefer that than Buch,15, and lundqvist only because I'm able to sign Zib and have Zib Eichel as my 1/2 centers for the next 5-6 years. That's 25 million dollars in untraded money. I see no world where Buffalo holds half of Eichel's salary through 2026 regardless of what they get. I think the max you get is to get him down to 8m/year if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 That's 25 million dollars in untraded money. I see no world where Buffalo holds half of Eichel's salary through 2026 regardless of what they get. I think the max you get is to get him down to 8m/year if that. This. There are far too many years left to come anywhere near 50% retention, even with the Rangers paying for it in picks and prospects. Look at the Kessel trade with the Leafs eating $1.2 million for seven years. Kessel had an $8 million AAV. It's just entirely inconceivable to think that you can "pay" Buffalo to eat anywhere near 50% of that contract, and retention is an all or nothing deal. Even $8 million (AAV) is a stretch. You're probably looking at a max of $1.5 million in retention without a third team involved in the deal for double retention, and even then, you're rapidly approaching the point that the volume of what you're paying out isn't worth what's coming. in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 This. There are far too many years left to come anywhere near 50% retention, even with the Rangers paying for it in picks and prospects. Look at the Kessel trade with the Leafs eating $1.2 million for seven years. Kessel had an $8 million AAV. It's just entirely inconceivable to think that you can "pay" Buffalo to eat anywhere near 50% of that contract, and retention is an all or nothing deal. Even $8 million (AAV) is a stretch. You're probably looking at a max of $1.5 million in retention without a third team involved in the deal for double retention, and even then, you're rapidly approaching the point that the volume of what you're paying out isn't worth what's coming. in. Yup. The cost to even get to something like 20% retention is going to make this deal much less appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Yup. The cost to even get to something like 20% retention is going to make this deal much less appealing. Frankly, I think it'd cost less to dump a contract that we don't want anymore later....if we really need the cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 The more I think about this it's imperative that the Rangers make them eat a good portion of his cap hit. Of course that means sweetening the pot but so be it. Trading for Eichel only to lose Zib next summer doesn't really improve things at all. So if adding Kakko or Kravtsov gets Buffalo to retain half the cap hit than maybe it makes sense although it is more painful right now for the Rangers in assets given up. I just to see the sense in trading for him if that means that Zib is out because of money. Does Chytil/Strome, Jones, 15th, Kakko or Kravtsov get it done with Buffalo holding 50% of the Eichel contract? I'd prefer that than Buch,15, and lundqvist only because I'm able to sign Zib and have Zib Eichel as my 1/2 centers for the next 5-6 years. Well if they can get Buffalo to eat some… great! But 2 things: 1) No way they do so without getting a premium piece, which probably means Kakko. 2) Forget about half. Most they eat is 25% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts