Possible Trade Candidates for Center Help

[RangersIn7]

I would rather try to get Point instead of Cirelli.

 

I think that opportunity has passed.

 

They had every intention of offer sheeting him last summer, but he would not have signed it.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Point is a 24 year old stud (just scored the series clinching OT-winner btw), Tampa will 100% make cap space for him. Only option is to overpay Cirelli and hope Tampa cant make space for both of them.

 

 

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[CaptainMorganBarron]

Questions about the contract and consistency.

 

2 year @ 4.75 mil

[BrooksBurner]

Point is a 24 year old stud (just scored the series clinching OT-winner btw), Tampa will 100% make cap space for him. Only option is to overpay Cirelli and hope Tampa cant make space for both of them.

 

 

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Yes he is. The Rangers have many cheap young assets that may entice Tampa though. Chytil, Kravtsov, K Miller, Lundkvist. Some combination of those mixed with a solid roster player like Buchnevich and picks. The Rangers can put together a great offer. Based on some JD comments recently, I don't think this is the kind of path they go though. He preaches patience. I don't think we'll see much of anything this season moves wise. Strome/DeAngelo on 1-2 year deals. Draft Lafreniere. Wait until next offseason.

[josh]

I would rather try to get Point instead of Cirelli.

 

easier to get Stamkos.

[RangersIn7]

easier to get Stamkos.

 

Lol

 

Yeah. That’s true

Cirelli has already pushed Stamkos to the wing.

 

I honestly think Tampa will do ANYTHING to keep both Cirelli and Sergachev, to such a degree that I don’t know how realistic getting either of them would be.

 

But that will be a real challenge for them. I mean, they essentially HAVE to keep both of them. In order to do that, they’ll either have to convince those guys to take less money on a bridge and pay them later. Or they’ll have to offload some other guys like Johnson, Palat, Gourde, or Killorn. That will be hard given the flat cap

And it will hurt their depth.

 

Really tough situation

Hopefully Rangers can take advantage

[Pete]

I?m coming up short on a search for a 2C. Your closest are going to be ineffective third line centers needing a change of scenery.

RyJo.

[RangersIn7]

RyJo.

 

He’s just risky for 5 years with that price tag.

 

He’s not a bad option though, and if he’s playing with Panarin, he could hypothetically be outstanding

[Puck Head]

He?s just risky for 5 years with that price tag.

 

He?s not a bad option though, and if he?s playing with Panarin, he could hypothetically be outstanding

 

Wrong side of the age curve. And way too expensive on years left of contract. Last seasons decline was somewhat concerning

 

 

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[RangersIn7]

Wrong side of the age curve. And way too expensive on years left of contract. Last seasons decline was somewhat concerning

 

 

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There are some pretty noticeable concerns and red flags with him to be sure.

[josh]

RyJo.

 

I would have re-signed Hayes.

No, I'm not paying more for a worse Hayes, plus the cost of acquiring.

[Pete]

Wrong side of the age curve. And way too expensive on years left of contract. Last seasons decline was somewhat concerning

 

 

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Kreider is also on wrong side of curve and too many years at a position we're loaded at.

[Pete]

I would have re-signed Hayes.

No, I'm not paying more for a worse Hayes, plus the cost of acquiring.

I think you need to revisit the stats.

[Phil]

Kreider is also on wrong side of curve and too many years at a position we're loaded at.

 

So trade him. A few years from now. For something that isn't a huge risk.

[RangersIn7]

Kreider is also on wrong side of curve and too many years at a position we're loaded at.

 

So trade him. A few years from now. For something that isn't a huge risk.

 

Kreider’s contract was too long for what he is and his history says. Dollar amount is fine, but paying him for 7 years till he’s 36 is usually bad news with any power forward, regardless of their speed and conditioning. They just don’t age well, unless they’re HOF level guys, and he’s not.

I understood the argument that if they let him go, then “in 2 years they’re looking for another Kreider.”

But the contract still sucks and he’ll be hard to offload if they find themselves needing to.

[Keirik]

Kreider is also on wrong side of curve and too many years at a position we're loaded at.

 

I actually don’t agree. His curve is steady. Do I think he’s going to pot 40 soon? No. Do I think he can remain where he is for the next X seasons? Yes. Also, I love that he was ready to come back before covid hit. At some point, it’s good to just accept a flaw, loyalty, leadership, and just understand that certain guys are worth a bit more based on character and everything that another guy. Kreider fits that to a tee. I feel better with him in our lineup than I do RyJo or anyobrcother down trending loser. Just my opinion.

[RangersIn7]

I actually don’t agree. His curve is steady. Do I think he’s going to pot 40 soon? No. Do I think he can remain where he is for the next X seasons? Yes. Also, I love that he was ready to come back before covid hit. At some point, it’s good to just accept a flaw, loyalty, leadership, and just understand that certain guys are worth a bit more based on character and everything that another guy. Kreider fits that to a tee. I feel better with him in our lineup than I do RyJo or anyobrcother down trending loser. Just my opinion.

 

You hit the nail on the head though when you said X seasons.

 

Assuming X is what he’s been, they really need him to be that for at least 4, really 5 seasons.

 

If he’s anything less than X, and is so for any less than 4 seasons, that’s really bad.

 

You can overpay for 2 seasons. You can’t for 3-4

[Pete]

I actually don?t agree. His curve is steady. Do I think he?s going to pot 40 soon? No. Do I think he can remain where he is for the next X seasons? Yes. Also, I love that he was ready to come back before covid hit. At some point, it?s good to just accept a flaw, loyalty, leadership, and just understand that certain guys are worth a bit more based on character and everything that another guy. Kreider fits that to a tee. I feel better with him in our lineup than I do RyJo or anyobrcother down trending loser. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

You hit the nail on the head though when you said X seasons.

 

Assuming X is what he?s been, they really need him to be that for at least 4, really 5 seasons.

 

If he?s anything less than X, and is so for any less than 4 seasons, that?s really bad.

 

You can overpay for 2 seasons. You can?t for 3-4

 

Yea I mean X is a serious question mark. What if X = 2?

 

I think people tend to look at the guy they see every night and think he's better than another guy they never see.

 

If you look at age, Johansen is a year younger and coming off a bad season with linemates who had bad seasons. Kreider is coming off a career year playing with linemates who also had career years. Over their careers, the box stats are similar in terms of points. Advanced stats (without getting into the fabricated Athletic ones) pretty close.

 

I get that the Rangers aren't likely to do it. But as far as trade proposals go, this is as even as it gets on paper. It really comes down to "I like this guy better than that guy better than that guy".

 

Any type of statistical, age, wrong side of curve argument holds zero weight.

[RangersIn7]

Yea I mean X is a serious question mark. What if X = 2?

 

I think people tend to look at the guy they see every night and think he's better than another guy they never see.

 

If you look at age, Johansen is a year younger and coming off a bad season with linemates who had bad seasons. Kreider is coming off a career year playing with linemates who also had career years. Over their careers, the box stats are similar in terms of points. Advanced stats (without getting into the fabricated Athletic ones) pretty close.

 

I get that the Rangers aren't likely to do it. But as far as trade proposals go, this is as even as it gets on paper. It really comes down to "I like this guy better than that guy better than that guy".

 

Any type of statistical, age, wrong side of curve argument holds zero weight.

 

I agree with those points, and while I feel that Johansen is a risk, it’s still a possibility I’d entertain.

I’ve always liked Johansen, and I’ll admit that he could benefit and be energized by moving and a change of scenery.

I can’t say I saw him play tons this season, but I didn’t see some horrible erosion of his ability. Guy just had an off year.

 

I still feel Kreider got his deal more on his level of ability and his skill set plus his intangibles than his actual production.

They just love his “unicorn” skill set, and I can understand that. Rare to see a guy that’s 6’3” and 220-225 lbs. have the speed he does.

 

But he still produces what he produces.

[NYRangers723]

I actually don’t agree. His curve is steady. Do I think he’s going to pot 40 soon? No. Do I think he can remain where he is for the next X seasons? Yes. Also, I love that he was ready to come back before covid hit. At some point, it’s good to just accept a flaw, loyalty, leadership, and just understand that certain guys are worth a bit more based on character and everything that another guy. Kreider fits that to a tee. I feel better with him in our lineup than I do RyJo or anyobrcother down trending loser. Just my opinion

 

.

Agreed. I’ve always accepted what Kreider is. He had been a good player for us who had become a leader and has a unique skill set that is not easy to find. For a 19th overall pick he has been a success. Also he is one of the better conditioned players in the league so I don’t see him suddenly breaking down at 30

[Pete]

I agree with those points, and while I feel that Johansen is a risk, it?s still a possibility I?d entertain.

I?ve always liked Johansen, and I?ll admit that he could benefit and be energized by moving and a change of scenery.

I can?t say I saw him play tons this season, but I didn?t see some horrible erosion of his ability. Guy just had an off year.

 

I still feel Kreider got his deal more on his level of ability and his skill set plus his intangibles than his actual production.

They just love his ?unicorn? skill set, and I can understand that. Rare to see a guy that?s 6?3? and 220-225 lbs. have the speed he does.

 

But he still produces what he produces.

I don't even think he's overpaid in AAV. It's the term that's a killer, I want no part of that guy after 33/34 years old.

 

I don't see Johansen as a real risk but we're also only paying him till he's 33.

[tphilly5]

Yea I mean X is a serious question mark. What if X = 2?

 

I think people tend to look at the guy they see every night and think he's better than another guy they never see.

 

If you look at age, Johansen is a year younger and coming off a bad season with linemates who had bad seasons. Kreider is coming off a career year playing with linemates who also had career years. Over their careers, the box stats are similar in terms of points. Advanced stats (without getting into the fabricated Athletic ones) pretty close.

 

I get that the Rangers aren't likely to do it. But as far as trade proposals go, this is as even as it gets on paper. It really comes down to "I like this guy better than that guy better than that guy".

 

Any type of statistical, age, wrong side of curve argument holds zero weight.

 

This really is absurd reasoning.

 

You propose a trade.

 

You claim your proposed trade is as even as it gets.

 

You make statistical, age, and wrong side of curve arguments.

 

You declare that statistical, age, and wrong side of curve arguments hold zero weight.

 

We just signed Kreider for 7 years because he is an important part of the team, brings a unique skill set, is a leader in the room, has very good chemistry with Mika, and keeps himself in excellent shape. Kreider is $1.5m per cheaper. Johansen has been in the league for an extra year. Is it possible his X=0?

 

Other than you opinion, in what ways could this proposed trade be looked at that would carry any weight?

 

There is no reason to panic in order to fill the 2C. Trading an important piece to bring in a guy with possible question marks making $8m per is a recipe for disaster. We know what we got in Kreider and were comfortable signing him LT.

[Pete]

This really is absurd reasoning.

 

You propose a trade.

 

You claim your proposed trade is as even as it gets.

 

You make statistical, age, and wrong side of curve arguments.

 

You declare that statistical, age, and wrong side of curve arguments hold zero weight.

 

We just signed Kreider for 7 years because he is an important part of the team, brings a unique skill set, is a leader in the room, has very good chemistry with Mika, and keeps himself in excellent shape. Kreider is $1.5m per cheaper. Johansen has been in the league for an extra year. Is it possible his X=0?

 

Other than you opinion, in what ways could this proposed trade be looked at that would carry any weight?

 

There is no reason to panic in order to fill the 2C. Trading an important piece to bring in a guy with possible question marks making $8m per is a recipe for disaster. We know what we got in Kreider and were comfortable signing him LT.

 

It's not absurd at all. For some odd reason you just don't understand what's clearly lined out in front of you.

 

I didn't make any statistical or curve arguments. The stats show that they are pretty equal players at pretty much the same age. That was really clear in my post, what's unclear is why it's hard for you to understand.

 

In what ways could this propose trade carry any weight? None, it is my opinion, that's what the thread is for. If you don't want to have that discussion no one is forcing you to post here.

 

But reality is that you're just trolling and looking for an opportunity to flame, and this post was a really weak one because you just come off looking like you don't understand the basics.

[tphilly5]

It's not absurd at all. For some odd reason you just don't understand what's clearly lined out in front of you.

 

I didn't make any statistical or curve arguments. The stats show that they are pretty equal players at pretty much the same age. That was really clear in my post, what's unclear is why it's hard for you to understand.

 

In what ways could this propose trade carry any weight? None, it is my opinion, that's what the threat is for. If you don't want to have that discussion no one is forcing you to post here.

 

But reality is that you're just trolling and looking for an opportunity to flame, and this post was a really weak one because you just come off looking like you don't understand the basics.

 

You make no statistical arguments then you say the stats are pretty equal? You make no curve arguments but you say Kreider might be X=2?

 

Don’t give me the trolling BS because you clearly can’t make your case. This is a discussion and I have participated in this thread. Sorry for pointing out your illogical ramblings. I presented facts you just attacked me that I don’t understand the basics.

 

No back and forth from me on this one. You are so far off base that it is not worth it.

[Pete]

You make no statistical arguments then you say the stats are pretty equal? You make no curve arguments but you say Kreider might be X=2?

 

Don’t give me the trolling BS because you clearly can’t make your case. This is a discussion and I have participated in this thread. Sorry for pointing out your illogical ramblings. I presented facts you just attacked me that I don’t understand the basics.

 

No back and forth from me on this one. You are so far off base that it is not worth it.

 

I think you have an issue with reading comprehension. What I said is, any statistical argument FOR or AGAINST each player holds no weight because their stats are basically a wash. Puckhead said Johansen was on the wrong side of the curve, but he's a year older than Kreider.

 

It really comes down to which player you prefer. There's no statistical argument to be made that one is more productive than the other.

 

So I'll ask, what are you even talking about? You make zero sense. You're the only one here who doesn't understand. Keirik does, Rangerrsin7 does. In fact you haven't made a coherent argument at all. All you've done is take weak and nonsensical swipes at mine.

 

If there's anyone who's absurd here, it's not me.