Possible Trade Candidates for Center Help

[CaptainMorganBarron]

I think before making trades like that we need to figure out what we have and what we are missing and who is expendable or redundant.

 

Howden and Chytil, are they C or W? And are they going to finally break out?

 

need to see Barron, Richards, Khodorenko good chance that at least 1 is NHL ready.

 

 

And also I am guessing there will be decent UFAs available.

[ThirtyONE]

I think before making trades like that we need to figure out what we have and what we are missing and who is expendable or redundant.

 

Howden and Chytil, are they C or W? And are they going to finally break out?

 

need to see Barron, Richards, Khodorenko good chance that at least 1 is NHL ready.

 

 

And also I am guessing there will be decent UFAs available.

 

The point is to not sign UFAs though. Rangers don't need a 29 year old center. Rangers need a cost controlled young player with upside, similar to the Mika Zibanejad deal.

[RangersIn7]

The point is to not sign UFAs though. Rangers don't need a 29 year old center. Rangers need a cost controlled young player with upside, similar to the Mika Zibanejad deal.

 

Agreed. They really shouldn’t go fishing in the UFA market for a big ticket item. And honestly they probably won’t have the room to do that this offseason under the cap anyway.

 

But next offseason they will. And that could be dangerous.

 

I’m not opposed to them looking at guy like Brodin as a UFA next offseason if he’s there, that’s ok. But they really need to be careful.

 

I’d much rather they spend assets to acquire guys via trade that are maybe a bit younger than the typical UFA age and on an existing contract.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

The point is to not sign UFAs though. Rangers don't need a 29 year old center. Rangers need a cost controlled young player with upside, similar to the Mika Zibanejad deal.

 

I was talking about 3rd/4th line center those should not be very expensive on the UFA market.

[RangersIn7]

I think you have to have something wrong with you to trade a player in his prime that can do this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWA7CJzL1E0

 

It?s just going to be very expensive to keep him and have him play right D on the 3rd pairing.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Agreed. They really shouldn’t go fishing in the UFA market for a big ticket item. And honestly they probably won’t have the room to do that this offseason under the cap anyway.

 

But next offseason they will. And that could be dangerous.

 

I’m not opposed to them looking at guy like Brodin as a UFA next offseason if he’s there, that’s ok. But they really need to be careful.

 

I’d much rather they spend assets to acquire guys via trade that are maybe a bit younger than the typical UFA age and on an existing contract.

 

 

I would be very opposed to Brodin.

1. I don't like Dmen that don't hit

2. when you got unholy pipeline which includes Miller, Jones, Robertson, Reunanen, Hajek, Ragnarsson signing a UFA would be equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

It’s just going to be very expensive to keep him and have him play right D on the 3rd pairing.

 

ADA does not seem to be all about the money, he is a good team player I rather trade Trouba and have ADA be 2nd pairing Dman. But really if you have 3 pairings that play equal amount each then it should not really matter much.

[RangersIn7]

I would be very opposed to Brodin.

1. I don't like Dmen that don't hit

2. when you got unholy pipeline which includes Miller, Jones, Robertson, Reunanen, Hajek, Ragnarsson signing a UFA would be equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot.

 

Which is why I said “look” and that it could be dangerous.

[RangersIn7]

ADA does not seem to be all about the money, he is a good team player I rather trade Trouba and have ADA be 2nd pairing Dman. But really if you have 3 pairings that play equal amount each then it should not really matter much.

 

He’s going to want to get paid and his production indicates a significant raise, regardless of what he’s all about.

 

Trouba isn’t getting trading. For various reasons.

 

No indication they’d play all their pairs equally. They haven’t done that.

 

ADA’s offensive ability notwithstanding, his defensive ability or lack there of, means careful matchups and sheltered minutes and an inability to play all the pairs equally.

 

Reagardless of Trouba’s season being disappointing or his contract being too large, both he and Fox are much more complete, and better all-around defensemen than ADA. If they all are here and they all stay on the right side, it doesn’t leave a whole lot of minutes for ADA in all likelihood. He’d be relegated to a 3rd pair and the PP. While it’s fine to have a guy like that, you can’t really pay him big dollars, and ADA could get big dollars.

 

Obviously anything can happen in terms of moving one to the left side or a few other scenarios but there’s been no indication they’re willing to do that.

 

And again, just saying this is in all likelihood based on known data. Not speculation. Acknowledging that there are other possibilities but that they seem unlikely and I’m going on what I know.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Which is why I said “look” and that it could be dangerous.

 

 

yeah, but you specifically mentioned Brodin a guy that had like 270 hits in 550 NHL games. It is absolutely dangerous.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

He’s going to want to get paid and his production indicates a significant raise, regardless of what he’s all about.

 

Trouba isn’t getting trading. For various reasons.

 

No indication they’d play all their pairs equally. They haven’t done that.

 

ADA’s offensive ability notwithstanding, his defensive ability or lack there of, means careful matchups and sheltered minutes and an inability to play all the pairs equally.

 

Reagardless of Trouba’s season being disappointing or his contract being too large, both he and Fox are much more complete, and better all-around defensemen than ADA. If they all are here and they all stay on the right side, it doesn’t leave a whole lot of minutes for ADA in all likelihood. He’d be relegated to a 3rd pair and the PP. While it’s fine to have a guy like that, you can’t really pay him big dollars, and ADA could get big dollars.

 

Obviously anything can happen in terms of moving one to the left side or a few other scenarios but there’s been no indication they’re willing to do that.

 

And again, just saying this is in all likelihood based on known data. Not speculation. Acknowledging that there are other possibilities but that they seem unlikely and I’m going on what I know.

 

I feel more comfortable with ADA defending than Trouba. I think ADA @5mil is acceptable cap hit.

[RangersIn7]

yeah, but you specifically mentioned Brodin a guy that had like 270 hits in 550 NHL games. It is absolutely dangerous.

 

I mentioned Brodin because his name has been out there as a possible addition for them. Not because I love the idea of him. I honestly don?t. There?s other options on LD I?d prefer.

[RangersIn7]

I feel more comfortable with ADA defending than Trouba. I think ADA @5mil is acceptable cap hit.

 

Off year year for Trouba notwithstanding, DeAngelo is just bad in his own end. I sort of get the reason you’re saying that on a level, but Trouba is by all accounts a good to very good defender in his own end and the stats he’s posted more or less support that.

 

Also what you pay DeAngelo has impact on what you can pay Fox down the road.

 

My inclination is to believe that in a few years you could very well look at Fox as the best of the 3.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Off year year for Trouba notwithstanding, DeAngelo is just bad in his own end. I sort of get the reason you’re saying that on a level, but Trouba is by all accounts a good to very good defender in his own end and the stats he’s posted more or less support that.

 

Also what you pay DeAngelo has impact on what you can pay Fox down the road.

 

My inclination is to believe that in a few years you could very well look at Fox as the best of the 3.

 

Unless you really closely scout the Dmen you will miss a lot of issues in their play. Carolina I am sure have not closely scouted Skjei, they needed a Dman and they had an extra 1st rounder so they rushed and made a trade, they will be unpleasantly surprised what they got. Similar I feel like Rangers did not adequately scout Trouba and his issues. A trade presented itself and they rushed into it.

 

Yes Fox is supposed to be the best of 3, but he is not perfect either.

 

So do you think 5 mil for ADA is too much?

 

The only things I like about Trouba is size and hitting (and I am a huge fan of hitting). He seems to be fairly dumb, not very high hockey IQ, his agility is bad when he turns it is like a truck making a broken u-turn, his passing is nothing to write home about. And let's not forget the big and dangerous contract with NMC.

[RangersIn7]

Unless you really closely scout the Dmen you will miss a lot of issues in their play. Carolina I am sure have not closely scouted Skjei, they needed a Dman and they had an extra 1st rounder so they rushed and made a trade, they will be unpleasantly surprised what they got. Similar I feel like Rangers did not adequately scout Trouba and his issues. A trade presented itself and they rushed into it.

 

Yes Fox is supposed to be the best of 3, but he is not perfect either.

 

So do you think 5 mil for ADA is too much?

 

The only things I like about Trouba is size and hitting (and I am a huge fan of hitting). He seems to be fairly dumb, not very high hockey IQ, his agility is bad when he turns it is like a truck making a broken u-turn, his passing is nothing to write home about. And let's not forget the big and dangerous contract with NMC.

 

Is 5 million per too much how? Under what terms?

In the general sense, no. I’d say that’s in a fair ballpark. Maybe even a bit under value given the offensive numbers.

 

But... he may look for more than that. He may go to arb and get more than that.

He may be dead set on a long term deal if they try to bridge him.

 

It also may be as has been said, a bad expenditure if he’s going to be on a 3rd pair for the foreseeable future or they feel it impacts their ability to keep Fox or others.

Or they may have a trade they really like to acquire something they feel helps them more.

 

There’s a fair amount of context and possibilities here.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Is 5 million per too much how? Under what terms?

In the general sense, no. I’d say that’s in a fair ballpark. Maybe even a bit under value given the offensive numbers.

 

But... he may look for more than that. He may go to arb and get more than that.

He may be dead set on a long term deal if they try to bridge him.

 

It also may be as has been said, a bad expenditure if he’s going to be on a 3rd pair for the foreseeable future or they feel it impacts their ability to keep Fox or others.

Or they may have a trade they really like to acquire something they feel helps them more.

 

There’s a fair amount of context and possibilities here.

 

So why are we trading him if we don't even know what he wants/asking?

 

Carolina had similar situation with Faulk and they got a very solid return for him but Faulk's production was much less and he was 2.5 years older at the time he was traded. So I think we keep ADA for now, unless somebody is blowing us away with a trade. So let's put an end to ADA trade talk until we at least know what his demands are?

[BrooksBurner]

Is 5 million per too much how? Under what terms?

In the general sense, no. I’d say that’s in a fair ballpark. Maybe even a bit under value given the offensive numbers.

 

But... he may look for more than that. He may go to arb and get more than that.

He may be dead set on a long term deal if they try to bridge him.

 

It also may be as has been said, a bad expenditure if he’s going to be on a 3rd pair for the foreseeable future or they feel it impacts their ability to keep Fox or others.

Or they may have a trade they really like to acquire something they feel helps them more.

 

There’s a fair amount of context and possibilities here.

 

I think this is an overstated angle. What pair he's assigned on paper doesn't matter too much if he's still grabbing around 19 minutes a game one way or another and putting up 10+ goals and 60+ points. We can sit here calling him a specialist 3rd pairing defenseman all day, but defensemen with his production and not needing 1st pair minutes to do it is something to value highly. Too often that's getting dismissed around here.

 

I also think most of us have been a bit too quick on the trigger for slotting Fox in ahead of him. Fox looked disastrous in the games against Carolina. Yes, super small sample size, but he didn't look that bad during any stretch all year long. That should be a reminder that even he might be prone to suffering from a sophomore regression. Do I think it's likely? No. He has tools that other fast starters like Del Zotto and Skjei didn't/don't, but it is possible. We'd have some serious egg on our faces if we traded DeAngelo sooner than we had to.

 

I've warmed up to the idea of trading DeAngelo post-lottery win, but it needs to be a metric fuck ton coming back.

[RangersIn7]

So why are we trading him if we don't even know what he wants/asking?

 

Carolina had similar situation with Faulk and they got a very solid return for him but Faulk's production was much less and he was 2.5 years older at the time he was traded. So I think we keep ADA for now, unless somebody is blowing us away with a trade. So let's put an end to ADA trade talk until we at least know what his demands are?

 

Well we aren’t trading him yet. It’s just something that’s being kicked around and discussed.

And while we, the fans and general public, don’t really know what he wants or is looking for, the organization probably has a clearer picture of that than we do.

 

If you don’t want to speculate about stuff that’s already been speculated about, not just here and in places like it, but also by the media, in the offseason when the team is eliminated and there’s not tons to talk about that’s of real interest besides this, then it makes for a boring forum.

 

And there’s a basis for discussing DeAngelo being traded.

We can make an educated guess on his price tag. We know their cap space. We know he held out once before when he had no leverage. We see the roster. We see the pipeline of D. We see certain cap implications. And we see the possible return on him in a trade that can help in another area.

 

It’s all fair

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Well we aren’t trading him yet. It’s just something that’s being kicked around and discussed.

And while we, the fans and general public, don’t really know what he wants or is looking for, the organization probably has a clearer picture of that than we do.

 

If you don’t want to speculate about stuff that’s already been speculated about, not just here and in places like it, but also by the media, in the offseason when the team is eliminated and there’s not tons to talk about that’s of real interest besides this, then it makes for a boring forum.

 

And there’s a basis for discussing DeAngelo being traded.

We can make an educated guess on his price tag. We know their cap space. We know he held out once before when he had no leverage. We see the roster. We see the pipeline of D. We see certain cap implications. And we see the possible return on him in a trade that can help in another area.

 

It’s all fair

 

then why does everybody have a problem when I speculate a Trouba trade?

[Keirik]

I’m in the mindset of trying to keep ADA for a 2-3 year deal, around 5m per. If we do that, after next season as it is right now we have 45m in cap space. With ADA it’s 40m. Obviously that’s a bit skewed because a 2nd line center still needs a resolution which might set some of that unless we do a one year to Strome. Next offseason we have Chytil, Shesh, Lindgren, Howden, Buchnevich, Gauthier all as RFAs. You figure at least 3-4 of them make strides that justify decent bridge deals. The worst things we could do though now is overpay a 2c and ADA to a point where next offseason we have to say goodbye to developing guys because of a flat cap again.

[RangersIn7]

then why does everybody have a problem when I speculate a Trouba trade?

 

Because there’s little to no basis for it and it’s of the lowest of the low in terms of likelihood.

 

They didn’t trade for him and then give him $56 million dollars over 7 years to trade him 15 months later.

Plus there’s the NMC that’s going to kick in.

Plus the big cap hit attached to his contract that would be exceedingly difficult to move in any environment, and even harder with a flat cap moving forward.

 

And there’s the little matter that of that $56 million, they’ve already paid him $20 million.

You can’t pay a guy $20 million in the first 12 months of his deal, have him play 73 total games for you, and then deal him like 15 months or so after you traded for and extended him.

 

Regardless of what you feel of Trouba, or the year he had, the organization wanted him, they value him, they see him as a huge piece of what they’re assembling here, and they 100% want him here long-term.

 

7 years, $56 million, and a lengthy NMC proves that.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Because there’s little to no basis for it and it’s of the lowest of the low in terms of likelihood.

 

They didn’t trade for him and then give him $56 million dollars over 7 years to trade him 15 months later.

Plus there’s the NMC that’s going to kick in.

Plus the big cap hit attached to his contract that would be exceedingly difficult to move in any environment, and even harder with a flat cap moving forward.

 

And there’s the little matter that of that $56 million, they’ve already paid him $20 million.

You can’t pay a guy $20 million in the first 12 months of his deal, have him play 73 total games for you, and then deal him like 15 months or so after you traded for and extended him.

 

Regardless of what you feel of Trouba, or the year he had, the organization wanted him, they value him, they see him as a huge piece of what they’re assembling here, and they 100% want him here long-term.

 

7 years, $56 million, and a lengthy NMC proves that.

 

 

emergence of ADA, Fox and Lundkvist + 1 year of play + flat cap makes them realize they made a mistake and they will look to move him. Nothing unlikely about it. It can come swiftly and unexpectedly just like with his good buddy Skjei.

[RangersIn7]

I’m in the mindset of trying to keep ADA for a 2-3 year deal, around 5m per. If we do that, after next season as it is right now we have 45m in cap space. With ADA it’s 40m. Obviously that’s a bit skewed because a 2nd line center still needs a resolution which might set some of that unless we do a one year to Strome. Next offseason we have Chytil, Shesh, Lindgren, Howden, Buchnevich, Gauthier all as RFAs. You figure at least 3-4 of them make strides that justify decent bridge deals. The worst things we could do though now is overpay a 2c and ADA to a point where next offseason we have to say goodbye to developing guys because of a flat cap again.

 

It’s all dicey Keirik. It’s going to be very interesting to see what choices they make.

[RangersIn7]

emergence of ADA, Fox and Lundkvist + 1 year of play + flat cap makes them realize they made a mistake and they will look to move him. Nothing unlikely about it. It can come swiftly and unexpectedly just like with his good buddy Skjei.

 

His contract is immovable in this climate. Skjei’s was not. It’s a bad comparison.

And if you think they feel they’ve made a mistake, I’ll only say that while they’re disappointed probably in the season he had, they also can see the fact that he made a big adjustment by coming to NY, signing a huge deal, new team, new coach, new teammates, new system, new city, lots of pressure, no real great option as a partner to play with, young team, holes on the roster, toughest division in the league, and these are contributing factors to his having had a down season

 

Not excuses. But factors. And it’s always a possibility that you encounter that when you have a guy in year 1 of his deal in those types of circumstances. Believe me, Rangers management knew it was possible he’d underperform in year 1.

 

And it’s not as though it was a disaster.

 

Trouba is a good player. It’ll improve

 

And don’t mention Lundkvist as being in the mix. He’s still a year away from being in North America.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

His contract is immovable in this climate. Skjei’s was not. It’s a bad comparison.

And if you think they feel they’ve made a mistake, I’ll only say that while they’re disappointed probably in the season he had, they also can see the fact that he made a big adjustment by coming to NY, signing a huge deal, new team, new coach, new teammates, new system, new city, lots of pressure, no real great option as a partner to play with, young team, holes on the roster, toughest division in the league, and these are contributing factors to his having had a down season

 

Not excuses. But factors. And it’s always a possibility that you encounter that when you have a guy in year 1 of his deal in those types of circumstances. Believe me, Rangers management knew it was possible he’d underperform in year 1.

 

And it’s not as though it was a disaster.

 

Trouba is a good player. It’ll improve

 

And don’t mention Lundkvist as being in the mix. He’s still a year away from being in North America.

 

Lundkvist a year away only because of Covid and after his season ends he might come over play some games in AHL. I don't think Trouba's contract is immovable plenty of teams that would want him, we can eat a portion of his contract if we get a big return.