Possible Trade Candidates for Center Help

[CaptainMorganBarron]

I’m in the mindset of trying to keep ADA for a 2-3 year deal, around 5m per. If we do that, after next season as it is right now we have 45m in cap space. With ADA it’s 40m. Obviously that’s a bit skewed because a 2nd line center still needs a resolution which might set some of that unless we do a one year to Strome. Next offseason we have Chytil, Shesh, Lindgren, Howden, Buchnevich, Gauthier all as RFAs. You figure at least 3-4 of them make strides that justify decent bridge deals. The worst things we could do though now is overpay a 2c and ADA to a point where next offseason we have to say goodbye to developing guys because of a flat cap again.

 

2nd line center will be Strome for now, and he should not cost a lot either.

[Keirik]

I have a feeling that’s pretty accurate, unless they pry a Cirelli or Kerfoot that’ll cost less.

[josh]

I would be very opposed to Brodin.

1. I don't like Dmen that don't hit

2. when you got unholy pipeline which includes Miller, Jones, Robertson, Reunanen, Hajek, Ragnarsson signing a UFA would be equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot.

I do agree with this.

 

But another part of me is thinking ?don?t waste these years?, the Panarin/Zibanejad years. Robertson and Miller will be here for the Kakko/Lafreniere years.

 

Re-evaluate at deadline, unless it?s cheap as hell.

[RangersIn7]

Lundkvist a year away only because of Covid and after his season ends he might come over play some games in AHL. I don't think Trouba's contract is immovable plenty of teams that would want him, we can eat a portion of his contract if we get a big return.

 

The reason he’s at least a year away is immaterial.

He’s still a year away

[RangersIn7]

I think this is an overstated angle. What pair he's assigned on paper doesn't matter too much if he's still grabbing around 19 minutes a game one way or another and putting up 10+ goals and 60+ points. We can sit here calling him a specialist 3rd pairing defenseman all day, but defensemen with his production and not needing 1st pair minutes to do it is something to value highly. Too often that's getting dismissed around here.

 

I also think most of us have been a bit too quick on the trigger for slotting Fox in ahead of him. Fox looked disastrous in the games against Carolina. Yes, super small sample size, but he didn't look that bad during any stretch all year long. That should be a reminder that even he might be prone to suffering from a sophomore regression. Do I think it's likely? No. He has tools that other fast starters like Del Zotto and Skjei didn't/don't, but it is possible. We'd have some serious egg on our faces if we traded DeAngelo sooner than we had to.

 

I've warmed up to the idea of trading DeAngelo post-lottery win, but it needs to be a metric fuck ton coming back.

 

These are all good points. You are right in that about his minutes vs production, he didn’t need top pairing minutes to produce what he did this year, and 15 G’s and 53 points over 68 games in 19:17 per night for a D is damn impressive.

You’re very right about that, and it should be stated more often just how impressive that is.

 

Fair point on Fox too. It’s too casually thought of, and I’m certainly guilty of it, that he’s just going to be excellent and continue to improve. I’ve even acknowledged him having a sophomore slump and some eventual growing pains, yet still I’ll run with him being great.

But I will say that in watching him play, I do not see much reason to expect him to trend anything but up. That said, the possibility of the opposite happening should be acknowledged, while I think we are all very confident in him moving forward.

 

In terms of minutes moving forward, if they’re all here, who knows, but we can only go on what we’ve seen thus far.

Weve seen them roll Trouba out there 22 minutes a night. That’s what they’ve done thus far.

Fox is trending towards over 20 a night too.

 

And ADA’s D and own zone play make it more complicated than it is with the others if that doesn’t improve.

 

I’m not all about trading him either. I’m very cool with him staying, but it’s gotta be on the right type of deal.

And I’m with you in that the return for him if he’s traded needing to be outstanding.

[Pete]

These are all good points. You are right in that about his minutes vs production, he didn?t need top pairing minutes to produce what he did this year, and 15 G?s and 53 points over 68 games in 19:17 per night for a D is damn impressive.

You?re very right about that, and it should be stated more often just how impressive that is.

 

Fair point on Fox too. It?s too casually thought of, and I?m certainly guilty of it, that he?s just going to be excellent and continue to improve. I?ve even acknowledged him having a sophomore slump and some eventual growing pains, yet still I?ll run with him being great.

But I will say that in watching him play, I do not see much reason to expect him to trend anything but up. That said, the possibility of the opposite happening should be acknowledged, while I think we are all very confident in him moving forward.

 

In terms of minutes moving forward, if they?re all here, who knows, but we can only go on what we?ve seen thus far.

Weve seen them roll Trouba out there 22 minutes a night. That?s what they?ve done thus far.

Fox is trending towards over 20 a night too.

 

And ADA?s D and own zone play make it more complicated than it is with the others if that doesn?t improve.

 

I?m not all about trading him either. I?m very cool with him staying, but it?s gotta be on the right type of deal.

And I?m with you in that the return for him if he?s traded needing to be outstanding.

ADA plays 3+ minutes a night on the PP... With Panarin and Zib.

 

Fox gets a minute less, on the 2nd unit that's nowhere near as good as the #1 unit and only had 11 less points... As a rookie. There are some underlying numbers suggesting he might be better than ADA on the PP right now, imagine if he got 3 mins with Panarin and Zib?

 

Even if he had a sophomore slump, that's one year in a career. The decision on Fox vs ADA is a long term one. And yes, a decision needs to be made because there's not enough ice for everyone. Even if the decision is someone moves to the left.

[RangersIn7]

ADA plays 3+ minutes a night on the PP... With Panarin and Zib.

 

Fox gets a minute less, on the 2nd unit that's nowhere near as good as the #1 unit and only had 11 less points... As a rookie. There are some underlying numbers suggesting he might be better than ADA on the PP right now, imagine if he got 3 mins with Panarin and Zib?

 

Even if he had a sophomore slump, that's one year in a career. The decision on Fox vs ADA is a long term one. And yes, a decision needs to be made because there's not enough ice for everyone. Even if the decision is someone moves to the left.

 

Also fair points. And if it comes to one or the other right now I?m surely taking Fox.

As stated previously, if you move the clock forward a few years, I?m firmly of the belief that Fox is the better player. He?s the more complete player now.

Just acknowledging that is not a decided certainty as of yet and that DeAngelo was very productive this year and has displayed a lot of offensive skill and production

 

The minutes moving forward are still the biggest concern for me.

If you have all 3 on the right side, it?s hard to see Trouba and Fox playing any less than 42 minutes a night combined.

Big money on ADA for 18ish minutes is admittedly a problem as we?ve all been over.

 

And I think he?s a piece from a spot of strength and depth that can be used to bring help for a weaker area.

 

But who knows? Organization might not want to do that. Or they may finally cave and move one of them to the left side

[Ozzy]

You can definitely improve on him, but you're definitely going to have to pay.

 

He seems to me like a good character guy, whose teammates like having him in the room, good work ethic and knows this was his last chance in the NHL. I don't think he's going to ask for the world in terms of contract.

 

Is he the perfect player? No. Does he have warts? Yes. He looked gassed at the end of the season. That said, not not everyone can play in New York and he's proven he can, he played himself off the third line into the first line. There's something to be said for that.

 

And again, I will say till the cows come home... Sure, a lot of it is Panarin but if it was all because of the bread man, then Fast would have had 60 points, too. It takes a certain kind of skill to be able to play with skill players. It took years for the Penguins to find the right guys to play with Crosby. What did Jagr do here without Nylander? Sometimes when something works you should just stick with it and stop trying to look for the next best thing.

 

Strome is like the high school sweetheart... not the smoke show you thought you'd marry, but she's reliable and you know what you're getting and at least the sex is good, so might as well put a ring on it.

 

...fell outta my seat with that one!! :rofl:

[Ozzy]

Also fair points. And if it comes to one or the other right now I’m surely taking Fox.

As stated previously, if you move the clock forward a few years, I’m firmly of the belief that Fox is the better player. He’s the more complete player now.

Just acknowledging that is not a decided certainty as of yet and that DeAngelo was very productive this year and has displayed a lot of offensive skill and production

 

The minutes moving forward are still the biggest concern for me.

If you have all 3 on the right side, it’s hard to see Trouba and Fox playing any less than 42 minutes a night combined.

Big money on ADA for 18ish minutes is admittedly a problem as we’ve all been over.

 

And I think he’s a piece from a spot of strength and depth that can be used to bring help for a weaker area.

 

But who knows? Organization might not want to do that. Or they may finally cave and move one of them to the left side

 

If anyone shifts, I would think it would be ADA. His defense really couldn't be any worse on the "off" side than it was on the side he's "used to". I think you're right 7, and I know this isn't new from me either, but I think ADA is the guy we can move for a more useful piece of the puzzle. He does have value, so I would think it's something they might look into.

[RangersIn7]

If anyone shifts, I would think it would be ADA. His defense really couldn't be any worse on the "off" side than it was on the side he's "used to". I think you're right 7, and I know this isn't new from me either, but I think ADA is the guy we can move for a more useful piece of the puzzle. He does have value, so I would think it's something they might look into.

 

He’s the most logical choice to get moved for a Center or LD. I’m hardly a genius for saying so Ozzy.

He has a lot of value. Young player, can be under team control through his best years. Plays RD and there’s not tons of those guys. And very talented plus starting to really produce offensively.

 

I don’t think they’re going to shift anyone. They’d have done so by now.

[BrooksBurner]

He?s the most logical choice to get moved for a Center or LD. I?m hardly a genius for saying so Ozzy.

He has a lot of value. Young player, can be under team control through his best years. Plays RD and there?s not tons of those guys. And very talented plus starting to really produce offensively.

 

I don?t think they?re going to shift anyone. They?d have done so by now.

 

Agreed that he is the most logical to move for a LD, for team makeup and expansion draft reasons. But if it's for a 2C, then a subsequent trade needs to be made for a LD. DeAngelo for 2C leaves another hole on defense and no 3rd defenseman really worth anything to protect from expansion draft...unless Hajek all of a sudden turns into a good NHL player.

[RangersIn7]

Agreed that he is the most logical to move for a LD, for team makeup and expansion draft reasons. But if it's for a 2C, then a subsequent trade needs to be made for a LD. DeAngelo for 2C leaves another hole on defense and no 3rd defenseman really worth anything to protect from expansion draft...unless Hajek all of a sudden turns into a good NHL player.

 

Yeah

 

They’re going to have to make a couple of trades if they’re trying to fill their two most significant roster holes.

I think DeAngelo can fill one of those with his return.

And maybe they do a futures package for the other.

[LindG1000]

Agreed that he is the most logical to move for a LD, for team makeup and expansion draft reasons. But if it's for a 2C, then a subsequent trade needs to be made for a LD. DeAngelo for 2C leaves another hole on defense and no 3rd defenseman really worth anything to protect from expansion draft...unless Hajek all of a sudden turns into a good NHL player.

 

Couple different routes to fill that gap, too. I'd probably not be looking to hit a home-run here. Our left side is Lindgren, Staal, Smith and we know that's not going to fly, but we don't need to bring in a top 4 guy to make this work. We need someone good enough to play steadier than Smith.

 

I think the organization feels like the solution's in the system already, but with Rykov in complete limbo and Hajek feeling more and more like he's headed to bust city, the solution in the system has to be K'Andre. And hey, that might be right.

 

I'm not going to dismiss a trade, either. Just don't want to see us trying to go get Torey Krug or something...just can't afford it right now.

 

I'd also throw out that since you need a steady-eddy guy, there's a few UFA that could make sense too. I wouldn't say no to Brenden Dillon, Andrej Sekera, or Jon Merrill on the cheap.

[Keirik]

If you believe in Trocheck I wonder if you can trade back their later first for him. He’s over 50% in draws and costs under 5m for the next two seasons, which is likely less than Strome will cost.

[RangersIn7]

If you believe in Trocheck I wonder if you can trade back their later first for him. He’s over 50% in draws and costs under 5m for the next two seasons, which is likely less than Strome will cost.

 

Hasn’t been the same since the injury.

 

I think most likely they roll with Strome for 1 more year, try to acquire a LD this offseason , give Chytil and some of the others another year to develop and reevaluate next offseason.

 

Much as we are talking about a 2C, we know Strome was very productive and effective with Panarin and they may not be too eager to break that up. While they may think it’s because of Panarin or unsure about him moving forward off of only 1 season, a 1 year deal gives them a 2nd look and he’s a player they know who fits in.

 

And let’s face it, the need is bigger on LD.

[josh]

Couple different routes to fill that gap, too. I'd probably not be looking to hit a home-run here. Our left side is Lindgren, Staal, Smith and we know that's not going to fly, but we don't need to bring in a top 4 guy to make this work. We need someone good enough to play steadier than Smith.

 

I think the organization feels like the solution's in the system already, but with Rykov in complete limbo and Hajek feeling more and more like he's headed to bust city, the solution in the system has to be K'Andre. And hey, that might be right.

 

I'm not going to dismiss a trade, either. Just don't want to see us trying to go get Torey Krug or something...just can't afford it right now.

 

I'd also throw out that since you need a steady-eddy guy, there's a few UFA that could make sense too. I wouldn't say no to Brenden Dillon, Andrej Sekera, or Jon Merrill on the cheap.

 

I think Miller is a year + away, but everyone was talking very highly of him during this bubble camp. Maybe he makes the team, doesnt play every game, but gets 50+ games. Then, they can re-evaluate at the deadline if they want to get someone for a playoff run.

 

I'd hate to see them bring in a long-term contract that closes the door for one of the LHD prospects. When they talk about bringing in an outside D, I just fear another terrible contract on the back end for another decade. The Girardi/Staal second contract seems to have gone on an extra 5 seasons. I'm ready to get over that hump.

[LindG1000]

I think Miller is a year + away, but everyone was talking very highly of him during this bubble camp. Maybe he makes the team, doesnt play every game, but gets 50+ games. Then, they can re-evaluate at the deadline if they want to get someone for a playoff run.

 

I'd hate to see them bring in a long-term contract that closes the door for one of the LHD prospects. When they talk about bringing in an outside D, I just fear another terrible contract on the back end for another decade. The Girardi/Staal second contract seems to have gone on an extra 5 seasons. I'm ready to get over that hump.

 

I thought Miller was a year+ away too, but they're talking about him like he's the guy who makes the jump this year. Bluntly, we've got a real good track record with NCAA defenders in the last few years - Fox, Pionk, Lindgren, Gilmour have all broken in reasonably well with us in various circumstances. If they think he's ready, I buy it.

 

I don't think a long term deal is in anyone's best interest right now. I think the guys I listed would be fine taking shorter term deals - maybe not Dillon, but the other two for sure.

[RangersIn7]

I think Miller is a year + away, but everyone was talking very highly of him during this bubble camp. Maybe he makes the team, doesnt play every game, but gets 50+ games. Then, they can re-evaluate at the deadline if they want to get someone for a playoff run.

 

I'd hate to see them bring in a long-term contract that closes the door for one of the LHD prospects. When they talk about bringing in an outside D, I just fear another terrible contract on the back end for another decade. The Girardi/Staal second contract seems to have gone on an extra 5 seasons. I'm ready to get over that hump.

 

I think you’re in the ballpark on Miller.

While he may make the NHL at some point this coming season, it will take some time for him to develop and acclimatize to the NHL and it could be several years before he’s ready to make a significant impact.

 

But I think at some point they will probably have to go get a top-4 LD.

Lindgren is probably a bottom pairing guy long-term. While I love Miller and think he’ll become a top-4 guy, I think it takes some time for him to get there.

Neither Hajek nor Rykov have shown too much yet, so I’m not banking on them. And no other prospect on the left side is close.

 

Chances are they’ll need to go and get one from outside the organization.

They just need to be smart and careful about who they get, how they do so, and what the cost is like in dollars and/or assets.

[LindG1000]

I think you’re in the ballpark on Miller.

While he may make the NHL at some point this coming season, it will take some time for him to develop and acclimatize to the NHL and it could be several years before he’s ready to make a significant impact.

 

But I think at some point they will probably have to go get a top-4 LD.

Lindgren is probably a bottom pairing guy long-term. While I love Miller and think he’ll become a top-4 guy, I think it takes some time for him to get there.

Neither Hajek nor Rykov have shown too much yet, so I’m not banking on them. And no other prospect on the left side is close.

 

Chances are they’ll need to go and get one from outside the organization.

They just need to be smart and careful about who they get, how they do so, and what the cost is like in dollars and/or assets.

 

I think the hope is that they need a bottom 4 guy and not a top 4 guy. Lindgren can play 2nd pair minutes, or platoon 2nd pair minutes with an equal caliber defender.

 

All depends on K'Andre and perhaps Robertson.

[RangersIn7]

I think the hope is that they need a bottom 4 guy and not a top 4 guy. Lindgren can play 2nd pair minutes, or platoon 2nd pair minutes with an equal caliber defender.

 

All depends on K'Andre and perhaps Robertson.

 

It’s possible with Lindgren. We just don’t know yet. He’s played 60 or so NHL games and is only 22. Maybe he’s a top-4 guy. Maybe he’s not. Just not enough there yet to make that determination.

[Ozzy]

He’s the most logical choice to get moved for a Center or LD. I’m hardly a genius for saying so Ozzy.

He has a lot of value. Young player, can be under team control through his best years. Plays RD and there’s not tons of those guys. And very talented plus starting to really produce offensively.

 

I don’t think they’re going to shift anyone. They’d have done so by now.

 

I'm going with you on that thought, 7! I agree, and it's probably not the best thing for the guy's career either...I'd rather deal him and let him play his correct position for another team.

 

I think Miller is a year + away, but everyone was talking very highly of him during this bubble camp. Maybe he makes the team, doesn't play every game, but gets 50+ games. Then, they can re-evaluate at the deadline if they want to get someone for a playoff run.

 

I'd hate to see them bring in a long-term contract that closes the door for one of the LHD prospects. When they talk about bringing in an outside D, I just fear another terrible contract on the back end for another decade. The Girardi/Staal second contract seems to have gone on an extra 5 seasons. I'm ready to get over that hump.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing Miller here, Josh man! ...and yeah, no need to bring in a player to clog the hole for our prospects. Miller's been pretty highly touted and I think he's our man...eventually! :thumbs:

 

I think the hope is that they need a bottom 4 guy and not a top 4 guy. Lindgren can play 2nd pair minutes, or platoon 2nd pair minutes with an equal caliber defender.

 

All depends on K'Andre and perhaps Robertson.

I forgot about Robertson...but right on G man!!!

[Mr.wiskers]

Can anyone break down the Pittsburgh/Toronto deal that way just make? I just wondering how that deal could help us in evaluating a possible deal of our Carolina pick.

 

 

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[BrooksBurner]

Can anyone break down the Pittsburgh/Toronto deal that way just make? I just wondering how that deal could help us in evaluating a possible deal of our Carolina pick.

 

 

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We have a thread here: http://www.blueshirtsbrotherhood.com/showthread.php?23059-TOR-Trades-Kapanen-Lingren-Abert-to-PIT-for-2020-1st-Rodrigues-Hallander

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Can anyone break down the Pittsburgh/Toronto deal that way just make? I just wondering how that deal could help us in evaluating a possible deal of our Carolina pick.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

 

yes, Penguins got smoked lol

 

pretty much same as getting 15th overall + a very solid 20 yearold prospect for Buchnevich