article: Brendan Smith's Road to Redemption Begins Now

[josh]

AV would turn Simmons into Fast is the point. Not the opposite.

 

IMO playing with that edge, COMES with those penalties you call stupidity. It's going to happen.

 

Miller, Kreider, and Smith arent anywhere near effective enough in their physical/aggressive role (or any role) to warrant the dumb penalties they took.

 

I can recall maybe 1 call against any of these guys that was borderline. Most were incredibly stupid, avoidable, and detrimental.

[Scott]

AV would turn Simmons into Fast is the point. Not the opposite.

 

IMO playing with that edge, COMES with those penalties you call stupidity. It's going to happen.

 

Miller, Kreider, and Smith arent anywhere near effective enough in their physical/aggressive role (or any role) to warrant the dumb penalties they took.

 

I can recall maybe 1 call against any of these guys that was borderline. Most were incredibly stupid, avoidable, and detrimental.

 

Biggest thing I learned this offseason is that AV caused cancer and world hunger. In his spare time he took his teams to the playoffs 11 out of 15 years. Granted he's no Toe Blake. Toe Blake doesn't get water from the rock that was last season.

[Pete]

What years did the Flyers HAVE 12 Simmons? I must have missed those years the Simmons clones couldn't win a cup.

I must have missed the year one Simmonds won a Stanley Cup...

 

the capital is just won a cup with one Wilson, but you want 12 Simmonds? Seems smart.

[Fatfrancesa]

I’ll take 12 guys who averaged 30 goals the past five seasons. That doesn’t seem bad to me no matter how they play.

[Ozzy]

I think we got a little off the track in this thread; :rofl:

 

Anyway, I'd absolutely love to see Brendan Smith return to the form I knew him best for, earlier in his career. Just sayin' ;)

[Slobberknocker]

Biggest thing I learned this offseason is that AV caused cancer and world hunger. In his spare time he took his teams to the playoffs 11 out of 15 years. Granted he's no Toe Blake. Toe Blake doesn't get water from the rock that was last season.

 

:repped:

 

AV was far from perfect but he did a pretty damn good job while he was here. Of course he had some short comings but we were a potential front runner for most of the run and a team you really didn't want to face.

[Giacomin]

None of this is true.

 

AV got guys to stop taking dumb penalties.

 

Obviously you did not understand what was written. You say "none of this is true" and then say what I wrote. :confused:

 

My point was that AV got guys to stop taking dumb penalties. Nothing wrong with that. The problem was he became so dogmatic about it that players became reluctant to do anything that might be interpreted as a dumb penalty. The result was guys skating away from the scene of the crime when a penalty was called against the opposition. Nine out of ten times that is the best thing to do. However, when your goalie gets run or the team's most skilled players get targeted, the coach needs to allow teammates to respond to these egregious attacks.

 

Sometimes guys knowing their teammates have their back and team unity is more important in the long term than worrying about negating a powerplay. Please understand I am not talking about taking a retaliation penalty in the 3rd period of a tight playoff game. This is a very specific criticism of AV and the culture he created and has nothing to do with world hunger or calling him a bad coach. He just did not differentiate between bad penalties and the very infrequent retaliation penalties that occasionally might be a necessary evil.

 

You know what else is a fundamental part of the game? Jumping someone after they hit your goalie. There is almost zero chance that what a coach says would prevent a guy from retaliating in that scenario would prevent one from sticking up for his goalie.

 

I think you are wrong. If AV ever said anything to the effect of, "if someone runs Hank with an all-out check we will let them know that is completely unacceptable", I'll eat your hat.

[josh]

Obviously you did not understand what was written. You say "none of this is true" and then say what I wrote. :confused:

My point was that AV got guys to stop taking dumb penalties. Nothing wrong with that. The problem was he became so dogmatic about it that players became reluctant to do anything that might be interpreted as a dumb penalty. The result was guys skating away from the scene of the crime when a penalty was called against the opposition. Nine out of ten times that is the best thing to do. However, when your goalie gets run or the team's most skilled players get targeted, the coach needs to allow teammates to respond to these egregious attacks.

 

Sometimes guys knowing their teammates have their back and team unity is more important in the long term than worrying about negating a powerplay. Please understand I am not talking about taking a retaliation penalty in the 3rd period of a tight playoff game. This is a very specific criticism of AV and the culture he created and has nothing to do with world hunger or calling him a bad coach. He just did not differentiate between bad penalties and the very infrequent retaliation penalties that occasionally might be a necessary evil.

 

 

I think you are wrong. If AV ever said anything to the effect of, "if someone runs Hank with an all-out check we will let them know that is completely unacceptable", I'll eat your hat.

 

wrong.

 

And for clarification:

https://nypost.com/2015/11/16/alain-vigneault-backs-chris-kreider-for-fighting-senators-goon/

 

 

enjoy

 

[josh]

Vigneault on Eakins hitting Lundqvist

 

https://nypost.com/2016/12/17/wistful-vigneault-why-rangers-didnt-get-lundqvist-revenge/

 

“I think it’s important for a team to stick up for one another in certain situations,” Vigneault said. “I think that one there caught everyone by surprise. … You don’t see that in today’s hockey anymore like you did there and I think it just caught everybody by surprise.”

[Scott]

Vigneault on Eakins hitting Lundqvist

 

https://nypost.com/2016/12/17/wistful-vigneault-why-rangers-didnt-get-lundqvist-revenge/

 

apparently this is fake news.

 

:clap:

[Pete]

I?ll take 12 guys who averaged 30 goals the past five seasons. That doesn?t seem bad to me no matter how they play.

 

Except if they're all in the box for half the game. ;)

[Vodka Drunkenski]

I was surprised to see that Simmonds wasn?t even in the top 50 in PIM last year. He?s 6th in the last 3 years though. Did he adjust his game that much last year?

[josh]

I was surprised to see that Simmonds wasn’t even in the top 50 in PIM last year. He’s 6th in the last 3 years though. Did he adjust his game that much last year?

 

Not intentionally. Some injuries, and wear & tear taking a toll.

 

I mean, Simmonds had 3 fights all season - 1 more than Buchnevich, and he hits less than Jesper Fast.

 

 

People just like using sexy names.

[Giacomin]

wrong.

Your responses are sometimes so broad, it's hard to understand what you are specifically trying to say.

 

you disagree AV discouraged retaliation penalties?

you disagree the Rangers skated away from a few egregious hits the last 2 years?

that he benched players for retal penalties and publicly spoke about taking those types of penalties?

that the Rangers were soft and the coach is somewhat accountable?

 

That article was from Nov 2015, a younger and more aggressive Kreids. Kreider did not get a minor penalty, part of the point. At that time teams were running us into the ground. What was AV gonna do, not back the potential star coming off a good playoff, who stood up for a hurt teammate and the team in general?

 

Besides AV got more proactive/vocal about not getting caught up in the "post whistle" action, the longer he was here. He made sure it became instinctive for everyone to skate away if we got the call, just like we saw after Eakin's hit. His opaque realization of how it looked after the fact, does not change that he promoted a "turn-the-other-cheek" style to gain the edge with penalties/PPs. And that he admonished or benched players who did not abide.

 

Funny hat joke. Even funnier are people who wear it.

[josh]

“If AV ever said...”

 

“Dude that’s from 2 seasons ago!”

[CBrowningPI]

Beep beep beep - backin it up !

 

Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[The Dude]

Miller, Kreider, and Smith arent anywhere near effective enough in their physical/aggressive role (or any role) to warrant the dumb penalties they took.

 

I can recall maybe 1 call against any of these guys that was borderline. Most were incredibly stupid, avoidable, and detrimental.

 

I agree about two of those names not being effective in their physical role. One and a half actually. Kreider was a very aggressive player early on. He hit a lot, he agitated and caused havok for goalies. Still does that last part. Smith played quite physical when they traded for him. Played it pretty smart too IMO. Miller, I agree with. I never felt he was as physical as some like to make him out to be. I just didn't see it/feel it in his game. I'm sure someone will pull a hits stat out of their ass to argue that point, but I just didn't feel like he was effective in a physical way.

[The Dude]

Biggest thing I learned this offseason is that AV caused cancer and world hunger. In his spare time he took his teams to the playoffs 11 out of 15 years. Granted he's no Toe Blake. Toe Blake doesn't get water from the rock that was last season.

 

And he angered Smith into working so hard over this summer, so he could come back AND BE CAPTAIN!

 

CAPTAIN BRENDAN SMITH!!!!!

[The Dude]

wrong.

 

And for clarification:

https://nypost.com/2015/11/16/alain-vigneault-backs-chris-kreider-for-fighting-senators-goon/

 

 

enjoy

 

 

Lol, did ya miss this blurb in there?

 

"There’s no doubt that when [Kreider] did what he did [saturday], that sends a message to a lot of players in the league,” said Vigneault, who hasn’t always publicly endorsed retaliation, either here or in Vancouver when he was behind the Canucks’ bench."

 

You gotta be kidding here. AV is absolutely known as a coach that doesn't want retaliation or aggressive penalties.

 

Was there any truth to the fact that Smith had an argument with AV about standing up for a team mate, by dropping the gloves?

[josh]

That was after a retaliatory penalty/fight.

 

He praised the action. Publicly.

[Giacomin]

“If AV ever said...”

 

“Dude that’s from 2 seasons ago!”

 

3 seasons ago. And Kreider did not get a penalty, so AV was fine. This was at a time when the ECF Rangers were getting banged around by the league and you think AV was going out on the limb by saying Kreider was sending a message. In the dressing room AV probably asked him why he fought the goon. Kreider likely responded, he just dropped our top C, we needed to send a message.

 

But hey I get your point. AV was a modern day Freddy Shero. During AV's tenure, he was adamant about not letting the opposition get away with shit.

 

You think he actually talked to the team in practice or in a meeting about when it's the right time to level a mother fucker? How about never.

 

On the other hand the mentions about "playing smart" were probably a regular happening. Players were drilled to be disciplined about these penalties. That's mostly good. Yet, w/o teaching perspective and judgement guys were too hesitant about negating a PP.

 

Most players won't go rogue against the coaches repeated warnings, though you expect them too.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Do you honestly think players need to be told when or when not to defend their teammates?

[BrooksBurner]

Do you honestly think players need to be told when or when not to defend their teammates?

 

No. I think some guys are just pussies at doing it.

[The Dude]

That was after a retaliatory penalty/fight.

 

He praised the action. Publicly.

 

When? It's not in that article. He said Kreider did what he did and hopefully it sends a message to the rest of the league.. No where does he say, "I'm glad he did it" or "motha fucka represent the Rangers B, ain't nobody gonna take that shit no mo".

 

More or less he put his tail between his legs about asking the league about looking into things and said the typical response to a player fighting. Publicly endorsed nothing man.

[The Dude]

That was after a retaliatory penalty/fight.

 

He praised the action. Publicly.

 

When? It's not in that article. He said Kreider did what he did and hopefully it sends a message to the rest of the league.. No where does he say, "I'm glad he did it" or "motha fucka represent the Rangers B, ain't nobody gonna take that shit no mo".

 

More or less he put his tail between his legs about asking the league about looking into things and said the typical response to a player fighting. Publicly endorsed nothing man.