Mike Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Phil that's not true. Again I've posted the numbers. Florida, Edmonton, Arizona, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Colorado. The list goes on. These teams have been in the top 10 in just about every draft for the last decade. What have they won? Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk The Rangers have more playoff series victories in the last decade than all of these teams combined, and it's not even close. They've missed the playoffs once since returning from 04/05 lockout, which might account for more appearances than these teamed combined. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Our current core makes us the San Jose Sharks of the east. Always a bridesmaid... We're probably three quality pieces from being a true contender, especially with McD playing as he is. Our window is rapidly closing - and if that isn't evident yet, it will be soon. Henrik's the only reason we're not sitting around drooling at highlights of Rasmus Dahlin already, and he can't stand on his head forever. I think we're better off recognizing that now and offing a few pieces that wouldn't be on our 2020 team. We won't miss the kinds of players we're talking about trading. Nash can come back in FA if he's so inclined. Zucc and McD are value plays - both will command big bucks in the open market, and neither is going to get a big contract from us. If we can't compete today, and we can't compete next year, let someone overpay us for them. Our 2020 team will be very, very different than this one, but the decisions made now can impact just how competitive it is. I'm willing to take that risk instead of continually trying to force the window open like we did in 98. great post. I don't disagree. But... You can't tell me the 2020 team is going to have the equivalent of a Lundqvist, a Nash, a Kreider, a Zuccarello Zib, Miller, McDonagh, Skjei, Buchnevich, resurgent Staal, Shattenkirk, Grabner, Fast, etc etc Too much on this roster to waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Phil that's not true. Again I've posted the numbers. Florida, Edmonton, Arizona, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Colorado. The list goes on. These teams have been in the top 10 in just about every draft for the last decade. What have they won? Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA, Columbus, Tampa all had a couple absolute shit years, drafted/sold high, and turned things around pretty fast. You can probably add Toronto to the list too, once they got their heads on straight and figured out that jamming a window open isn't as good as creating a new one. Heck, come back to me on the Islanders, Winnipeg, and Colorado at the end of this season; seems like they're all turning their respective corners. Arizona, Buffalo, Florida, and Edmonton are uniquely bad in part because they're horrendously managed/owned, and in part because they're extremely poor at developing assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 great post. I don't disagree. But... You can't tell me the 2020 team is going to have the equivalent of a Lundqvist, a Nash, a Kreider, a Zuccarello Zib, Miller, McDonagh, Skjei, Buchnevich, resurgent Staal, Shattenkirk, Grabner, Fast, etc etc Too much on this roster to waste. Can't say it with certainty, but I can say with certainty that we don't have the movable assets to fill three holes for 2018. If we move Andersson or Chytil to do so, it's a poor move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA, Columbus, Tampa all had a couple absolute shit years, drafted/sold high, and turned things around pretty fast. You can probably add Toronto to the list too, once they got their heads on straight and figured out that jamming a window open isn't as good as creating a new one. Heck, come back to me on the Islanders, Winnipeg, and Colorado at the end of this season; seems like they're all turning their respective corners. Arizona, Buffalo, Florida, and Edmonton are uniquely bad in part because they're horrendously managed/owned, and in part because they're extremely poor at developing assets.I don't feel like looking it up again so going from memory. Chicago sucked for over 10 years, all the top 10 picks didn't mean anything till they landed Toews and Kane. Pitt was lucky that in the 4 year span where they had 4 straight top 2 picks, Crosby and Malkin where there. LA suck for a long time. Until Kopitar and Doughty turn the tables. Tampa and Columbus haven't won shit. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA, Columbus, Tampa all had a couple absolute shit years, drafted/sold high, and turned things around pretty fast. You can probably add Toronto to the list too, once they got their heads on straight and figured out that jamming a window open isn't as good as creating a new one. Heck, come back to me on the Islanders, Winnipeg, and Colorado at the end of this season; seems like they're all turning their respective corners. Arizona, Buffalo, Florida, and Edmonton are uniquely bad in part because they're horrendously managed/owned, and in part because they're extremely poor at developing assets. Phil, Pitt and Chicago sucked at the right time. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Phil that's not true. Again I've posted the numbers. Florida, Edmonton, Arizona, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Colorado. The list goes on. These teams have been in the top 10 in just about every draft for the last decade. What have they won? Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Did you? Sorry. Mind posting again, or linking me? The way I see it, the numbers favor numerous first-rounders. PIT, CHI, LAK, CBJ, TBL, TOR, and WPG have all turned into winning clubs. Colorado might have hit a couple ruts but appear to be on the verge of being good again, too. Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA, Columbus, Tampa all had a couple absolute shit years, drafted/sold high, and turned things around pretty fast. You can probably add Toronto to the list too, once they got their heads on straight and figured out that jamming a window open isn't as good as creating a new one. Heck, come back to me on the Islanders, Winnipeg, and Colorado at the end of this season; seems like they're all turning their respective corners. Arizona, Buffalo, Florida, and Edmonton are uniquely bad in part because they're horrendously managed/owned, and in part because they're extremely poor at developing assets. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Phil, Pitt and Chicago sucked at the right time. Period. Sure, and didn't have to deal with the additional restrictions on the lottery. Is Buffalo as bad as they are if they won McDavid instead of Eichel like they tried to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Let me put this another way because I feel like what I'm suggesting is maybe getting conflated with what someone else is. I want all the first-round picks. I don't want to tank. I'm more than happy with picking at, say, 13th, 24th, and 28th this summer. I'm not suggesting the Rangers be the worst team in the league for the next 3-5 years hoping to land a Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, etc. I'm suggesting they not be stupid and think that this is a Cup-challenging roster. Instead, sell what assets they do have for all the picks they can get. The more first-rounders, the better. This is about playing the odds. Consider it like powerball. The more tickets they have, the better their chances of winning big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Let me put this another way because I feel like what I'm suggesting is maybe getting conflated with what someone else is. I want all the first-round picks. I don't want to tank. I'm more than happy with picking at, say, 13th, 24th, and 28th this summer. I'm not suggesting the Rangers be the worst team in the league for the next 3-5 years hoping to land a Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, etc. I'm suggesting they not be stupid and think that this is a Cup-challenging roster. Instead, sell what assets they do have for all the picks they can get. The more first-rounders, the better. This is about playing the odds. Consider it like powerball. The more tickets they have, the better their chances of winning big. I?m with you. I?m not sure who is asking for a complete blow up. All I?m asking is that they move the ufas at the deadline. And that?s only if they can?t get them resigned by the deadline. I agree with josh. The rangers do have a decent core of young guys from which to build upon. So let?s build on it. Guys leaving for nothing for a far fetched cup run just isn?t good asset management. They will be gone regardless, why not get something for them? The only guarantee they don?t add a good player with a first round pick is by not having it. I?ll assume everybody is pretty excited about chytil and Anderson why can?t the rangers get s couple more of those games kinds of players in what?s considered a much better and incredibly deep draft? Nobody as far as I can tell wants to suck for 10 years and play the lotto. What I?m asking for is how you avoid just that. At least in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Let me put this another way because I feel like what I'm suggesting is maybe getting conflated with what someone else is. I want all the first-round picks. I don't want to tank. I'm more than happy with picking at, say, 13th, 24th, and 28th this summer. I'm not suggesting the Rangers be the worst team in the league for the next 3-5 years hoping to land a Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, etc. I'm suggesting they not be stupid and think that this is a Cup-challenging roster. Instead, sell what assets they do have for all the picks they can get. The more first-rounders, the better. This is about playing the odds. Consider it like powerball. The more tickets they have, the better their chances of winning big. Same, though I can't say I'd be averse to winning the draft lottery :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Sure, and didn't have to deal with the additional restrictions on the lottery. Is Buffalo as bad as they are if they won McDavid instead of Eichel like they tried to? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Let me put this another way because I feel like what I'm suggesting is maybe getting conflated with what someone else is. I want all the first-round picks. I don't want to tank. I'm more than happy with picking at, say, 13th, 24th, and 28th this summer. I'm not suggesting the Rangers be the worst team in the league for the next 3-5 years hoping to land a Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, etc. I'm suggesting they not be stupid and think that this is a Cup-challenging roster. Instead, sell what assets they do have for all the picks they can get. The more first-rounders, the better. This is about playing the odds. Consider it like powerball. The more tickets they have, the better their chances of winning big. Bingo!! I agree with this all the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Let me put this another way because I feel like what I'm suggesting is maybe getting conflated with what someone else is. I want all the first-round picks. I don't want to tank. I'm more than happy with picking at, say, 13th, 24th, and 28th this summer. I'm not suggesting the Rangers be the worst team in the league for the next 3-5 years hoping to land a Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, etc. I'm suggesting they not be stupid and think that this is a Cup-challenging roster. Instead, sell what assets they do have for all the picks they can get. The more first-rounders, the better. This is about playing the odds. Consider it like powerball. The more tickets they have, the better their chances of winning big. So, we can, hopefully, end up with a similar roster as we currently have in 4-5 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 So, we can, hopefully, end up with a similar roster as we currently have in 4-5 years? If not better. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 but... that makes no sense. you have it now. Why are you getting rid of it to try to do it again? are we just talking about returns for Grabner and Nash at the deadline, or are you talking about making moves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Josh man, if they dump a lot of the vets, this coach goes with them. He's not a coach that can teach. Actually I don't even know what he can do....I can see there's a shit load he CAN'T do though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I'm ready to move on from AV too really, but saying things like he can't teach, or he can't do this or he can't do that is pretty off the mark. Half his team is in the press box, he had to use De Angelo for twenty minutes last night, Peter Holland is playing significant minutes it goes on and on. Last night specifically he had them obviously ready to play and between the goaltender and the PK it was pissed away. What is he to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Josh man, if they dump a lot of the vets, this coach goes with them. He's not a coach that can teach. Actually I don't even know what he can do....I can see there's a shit load he CAN'T do though! Yes, I know that. I'm just wondering why frustrated fans want to get rid of this team, hopefully do the same thing over again, and hopefully have an identical team in 5 years. You cant name off Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, but then settle for late round picks, as we have done. If you want to change the team, you have to change the way you draft. Either trade up for a top pick, or trade for roster players. More middling picks isnt going to randomly make the team better. We dont need more middle 6 forwards. We need a game-breaker. The focus should be on getting one, not another JT Miller or Michael Del Zotto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 100% agreed. The conventional belief is that the Rangers have pissed picks away in recent history, while that's somewhat true it was almost entirely mitigated, in my mind, by signing everyone else's "draft-and-follow" NCAA picks. Both Hayes and Vesey are typical of what you'd find drafting where the Rangers usually draft and had traded away. Lettieri looks much of the same. Throw in their usual mid round gems and it's really not an issue. If they do "sell" this year it should be expiring FA's with a view to re-tool this summer and that's really as drastic as it's going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I agree with all of the posters who have cited the many teams that have had innumerable top 10 (indeed, top 5) picks over the years but have not turned it around. A fire sale for us would result in several picks in the 20s. A fire sale is more likely to result in 1998-2005 rather than 1991-97. At one point I listed all of the players who had been chosen with the No. 23 pick over 10 years as an example of what you get for a late first round pick. The fire salers said "what's the significance of a No. 23 pick?" There was only one guy who turned into a really significant asset. A fire sale will also lead to a downturn that makes it hard to get UFAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 A fire sale will also lead to a downturn that makes it hard to get UFAs. The Rangers don't really care about UFAs unless they are rookies. Who even was the last big money UFA we signed...Redden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 They should really care about Tavares. He's pretty much the missing piece of the puzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 It’s actually not true. Everyone points to the generational player and having to pick in the top 1 or 2 to get that player. There are tons of examples of game changing players that were drafted later. Also all those teams who won cups did so with more than just one player. And in a lot of cases trades were made with quality prospects or high draft picks to obtain what they needed. In almost every case those trades weren’t made as a rental but as a long term investment. The rangers too frequently have traded their picks for somebody who wasn’t going to be here long. That is the problem now. It’s not that they traded the picks and prospects it’s tgat what they traded for is gone as well. La doesn’t just have Doughty. Quick, carter, kopitar, Muzzin, Brown were all part of the core as well Chicago had Keith seabrook hjarlmason saad Sharp as well Pitt added kessel with young assets. Letang hornqvist murray maata and a whole slew of role players like guentzel rust sheery etc The Detroit years are littered with savy draft picks. The entire team actually Tampa now sure stamkos and hedman sure but what about kucherov vasielisky point kilorn palat Johnson and on and on. Point is it’s hard to build a championship team. It’s even harder when you lose valuable assets for nothing. Of course there as many teams who have fucked it up and keep losing no matter the picks. You have to trust that your gm can draft and can identify talent. People say the rangers have done well without their picks restocking the pipeline under the circumstances. They aren’t wrong but why not give those same guys the ability of picking from the entire draft crop instead of 90th hoping to hit in the leftovers? There are no guarantees but what they have now isn’t good enough. I don’t know how anybody expects it to improve without a strong reinforcement of young talent. They just don’t have it right now. The rangers have the money to have the largest best scouting staff in the league, that’s not capped. Scout and develop is the only way to get ahead in this league. There will be misses but the better picks you have and the more you have the better chance you have to finding those core players. It’s not rocket science it’s patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Josh man, if they dump a lot of the vets, this coach goes with them. He's not a coach that can teach. Actually I don't even know what he can do....I can see there's a shit load he CAN'T do though! He did a good job with Vancouver building up that team and teaching a lot of good young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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