[friedman] Rangers Should Look at Options on UFAs, May Be Willing to Listen on Zucc, McD

[Bugg]

Agreed. I've argued in the past that they were guilty for not locking him up long-term but I far I was wrong about that. He doesn't play a game consistent enough to warrant the ticket he's going to get this summer. I think I'd rather flip him like Zibanejad/Brassard for another young asset.

 

 

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If they are gonna fire AV, would like to see how Miller works under another coach's system. And really that's what it comes down to; are they gonna fire him or try to for One More Playoff Run. The status quo is unacceptable. Expect we will have an answer before the AS break is over.

[josh]

Miller + for Reinhart

McDonagh for Nylander

 

There’s your top two centers

 

either currently playing a top 2 C role?

[Rangers4Life]

either currently playing a top 2 C role?

 

No but both very young, I can see Nylander forming into a top Center though.

[Future]

Miller + for Reinhart

McDonagh for Nylander

 

There’s your top two centers

Well they're both wingers.

 

And are you talking about Sam Reinhart, because it'd be more like Reinhart + for Miller.

[Dunny]

We only need one center.

 

Zib and Hayes are great if deployed correctly.

Chytil and Andersson coming (quickly)

 

I liked Josh' idea of moving Chytil to wing.

 

I really don't think you're going to get Nylander for McD, but maybe.

[Dunny]

Well they're both wingers.

 

And are you talking about Sam Reinhart, because it'd be more like Reinhart + for Miller.

 

Both can play Center, though. But yeah, dunno if either are going to excel there.

[Rangers4Life]

Well they're both wingers.

 

And are you talking about Sam Reinhart, because it'd be more like Reinhart + for Miller.

 

That?s interesting considering they?re both listed as centers. Either way, you?re undervaluing Reinhart and overvaluing Miller.

 

Edit: actually I take a little of that back, maybe Miller for Reinhart straight up.

[Morphinity 2.0]

Nylander isn't playing center because the Leafs have too many of them (Matthews, Kadri, Bozak, Moore). He did play center this season when Matthews was hurt though.

[Future]

That’s interesting considering they’re both listed as centers. Either way, you’re undervaluing Reinhart and overvaluing Miller.

 

Edit: actually I take a little of that back, maybe Miller for Reinhart straight up.

I mean, who cares what they're listed as, they both play wing. Nylander probably could be a top-6 center, but Reinhart has been bad when he's been a C. He's not even a top-6 wing IN BUFFALO. Assuming that either one of those guys, even Nylander, is going to be a top C is a pretty big risk when you're trading two of your best players.

 

I honestly don't know how you can think Reinhart is worth Miller. That trade makes your team immediately worse.

[Phil]

I like the idea you floated the other day, trade our 15ish pick and Miller to get wayyy up there and have a shot at some real premium talent.

 

Yeah. Like a Miller and whatever mid-round pick the Rangers have to get at or near the top-5. This draft is deep. I wonder if they can grab Tkachuk there. I figure it goes Dahlin, Svech, Bo/Zadina, then Brady.

 

 

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[Phil]

Miller + for Reinhart

McDonagh for Nylander

 

There?s your top two centers

 

More like Miller, plus NYR 1st, maybe 2nd for BUF's 1st (top five pick).

 

 

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[Rangers4Life]

I mean, who cares what they're listed as, they both play wing. Nylander probably could be a top-6 center, but Reinhart has been bad when he's been a C. He's not even a top-6 wing IN BUFFALO. Assuming that either one of those guys, even Nylander, is going to be a top C is a pretty big risk when you're trading two of your best players.

 

I honestly don't know how you can think Reinhart is worth Miller. That trade makes your team immediately worse.

 

Similar to how I don?t know how you can think Reinhart is worth De?Angelo and a midround pick I guess.

[Future]

Similar to how I don’t know how you can think Reinhart is worth De’Angelo and a midround pick I guess.

The difference is that Miller is a known quantity who is better than Reinhart.

 

Reinhart is high-ceiling unknown, as is DeAngelo, and the pick just makes it easier to justify. That's why it makes sense. You're trading unknowns for unkowns. And, just at face value, it's first-round bust for first-round bust. Whether Buffalo goes for it, who knows, but DeAngelo and Reinhart are far closer in value than Reinhart and Miller.

 

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I probably wouldn't do it, because I like ADA's game. But that's probably where the value is.

[Rangers4Life]

The difference is that Miller is a known quantity who is better than Reinhart.

 

Reinhart is high-ceiling unknown, as is DeAngelo, and the pick just makes it easier to justify. That's why it makes sense. You're trading unknowns for unkowns. And, just at face value, it's first-round bust for first-round bust. Whether Buffalo goes for it, who knows, but DeAngelo and Reinhart are far closer in value than Reinhart and Miller.

 

Reinhart (22 y/o) is averaging slightly more per game than Miller (24 y/o) over their careers thus far. I don't see how Miller is better or De'Angelo (22 y/o) and his 50 NHL games are a closer comparison to Reinhart (22 y/o).

[Fatfrancesa]

It?s not an unknown. Unknown to us maybe because we don?t watch every shift these guys take. Reinhardt has been in the nhl for a couple of years and he?s already scored 20 on a year. His flaws and strengths are very much known by scouts. The ceiling part is of course in the eye of the beholder. We don?t even know if the rangers like him at all. Apparently they liked DeAngelo where that thought is not unanimous among scouts.

 

When you trade for a young player you trust your scouts and personal people. That?s why you pay them. Just like the draft it?s not throwing darts at a draft board. Of course years later it looks like that but there are all kinds of reasons why players live up to their potential or don?t. Just like players there are good and bad scouts.

 

Making judgements on players based on a stat sheet alone is ridiculous. There is no way to quantify all the intangibles that produce those stats. Line mates alone and team structure are huge.

 

If the rangers decide to make any trades you have to trust their personal people to make a good move. Very much mixed results the past couple of years. But you have to trust them

[Future]

Reinhart (22 y/o) is averaging slightly more per game than Miller (24 y/o) over their careers thus far. I don't see how Miller is better or De'Angelo (22 y/o) and his 50 NHL games are a closer comparison to Reinhart (22 y/o).

Slightly more what? PPG? Because that is wildly skewed by Miller's first two years, when he played on the 4th line. In the 9 games that Reinhart did that, he had 1 point.

 

In their three seasons averaging at least 15:00, Miller is at .60 PPG with an average ATOI of 15:56 while Reinhart is at .53 with an average ATOI of 16:45. So in almost :50 more per game, Reinhart produces .07 PPG fewer than Miller. And, 34% of Reinhart's points come on the PP, while Miller only has 11%. At 5v5, the two aren't even in the same league.

 

Plus, Miller can actually win a puck battle, forecheck, and doesn't get knocked off the puck when someone breathes on him. Reinhart doesn't do any of that, he's Stepan lite.

[Rangers4Life]

Slightly more what? PPG? Because that is wildly skewed by Miller's first two years, when he played on the 4th line. In the 9 games that Reinhart did that, he had 1 point.

 

In their three seasons averaging at least 15:00, Miller is at .60 PPG with an average ATOI of 15:56 while Reinhart is at .53 with an average ATOI of 16:45. So in almost :50 more per game, Reinhart produces .07 PPG fewer than Miller. And, 34% of Reinhart's points come on the PP, while Miller only has 11%. At 5v5, the two aren't even in the same league.

 

Plus, Miller can actually win a puck battle, forecheck, and doesn't get knocked off the puck when someone breathes on him. Reinhart doesn't do any of that, he's Stepan lite.

 

Even better, we need to bolster the PP, thanks Sammy!

 

It only took Reinhart 9 games to make the jump while it took Miller 2 years. You fail to acknowledge the age factor, two years less experience and stats are still almost identical. I'll hold off on commenting on Reinhart's physical play for the puck because I don't watch Buffalo's games which I venture to guess you don't either.

 

Either way we can go back and forth all day on this but one thing is for sure, De'Angelo isn't even in the conversation.

 

Agree to disagree.

[Future]

Even better, we need to bolster the PP, thanks Sammy!

 

It only took Reinhart 9 games to make the jump while it took Miller 2 years. You fail to acknowledge the age factor, two years less experience and stats are still almost identical. I'll hold off on commenting on Reinhart's physical play for the puck because I don't watch Buffalo's games which I venture to guess you don't either.

 

Either way we can go back and forth all day on this but one this for sure, De'Angelo isn't even in the conversation.

 

Agree to disagree.

It took Reinhart 9 games because the Sabres only had like 3 NHL forwards on their roster. He wasn't any more ready at 20 than Miller.

[The Dude]

They really need to move on from Miller the more I think about it.

 

I was hoping there was a mid game trade or interest, and that was part of the reason behind the benching.

 

Vesey has been invisible. That's a guy I was expecting to step up and show some character. Fuckin invisible.

[Giacomin]

It took Reinhart 9 games because the Sabres only had like 3 NHL forwards on their roster. He wasn't any more ready at 20 than Miller.

 

Well, he was also a hyped top 4 pick on a club that was baren. Both top 4 'Sams' of that draft are disapointments.

 

As for Buff, upstate we get more of their games then the Isles or Devils. The fans and writers seem to agree Reinhart should be traded. They think they've seen what he is and can be and they are not hopeful that he will progress much.

 

I kinda agreed, but liked what I've seen in his last few outings. He is good with his stick and you can see the skills. Maybe he keeps improving, but it is a risk. He is soft (in that he gets pushed off the puck, the opposite of Miller) and a bad forechecker. He can set up plays like a C, but can he handle the D role? A bit of the same problem with Miller, but right now Miller is the better player.

[josh]

I value Miller more than Reinhart

[Future]

Well, he was also a hyped top 4 pick on a club that was baren. Both top 4 'Sams' of that draft are disapointments.

 

As for Buff, upstate we get more of their games then the Isles or Devils. The fans and writers seem to agree Reinhart should be traded. They think they've seen what he is and can be and they are not hopeful that he will progress much.

 

I kinda agreed, but liked what I've seen in his last few outings. He is good with his stick and you can see the skills. Maybe he keeps improving, but it is a risk. He is soft (in that he gets pushed off the puck, the opposite of Miller) and a bad forechecker. He can set up plays like a C, but can he handle the D role? A bit of the same problem with Miller, but right now Miller is the better player.

Yea, I'm in Rochester and the Sabres are all that are on MSG on Time Warner, and we're seeing the same thing (for the first time, I think, lol). I think he can be more, but his situation has just kind of soured there. Happens to a lot of players.

[4EverRangerFrank]

Move Miller back to wing and he's a different player. Imagine what could happen if he benefited from an effective center? I still like this kid.

 

Vesey? Like this kid too. This young pup still learning how to play the NHL game -- give him another summer of conditioning and another year's playing experience and he'll blossom even more. I would hate to see him develop into a strong talent elsewhere.

[Dunny]

Vesey is cheap, no point getting rid of him unless he's part of something big.

 

Good point on Miller, too. I've been riding him but having to play center could be a huge part of his struggles.

[Giacomin]

Vesey is cheap, no point getting rid of him unless he's part of something big.

 

Good point on Miller, too. I've been riding him but having to play center could be a huge part of his struggles.

 

Agree with you both. I wanna see Vesey another year. No point in moving him unless he is part of a package to bring a big time player.