Calling ALL Posters

[fletch]

one person who turned me off of this forum is Peetie. now I just lurk

 

I miss your posts.... when I go back in the older threads I enjoy reading what you had to say.

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

As far as the AS go, I disagree with you. There's a few of us that don't gaf about them yet participate in a thread where people use them as evidence to whatever point they're trying to get across.

 

 

Friends, mods, whatever it may be do not get special treatment. Jimmy and I are proof of that. Pete gets warnings too. Here's the thing, and I'm not saying this because Pete is my friend. I'm saying it because it's the truth ... Pete knows how to walk the line without crossing it better than anyone else here including myself. That's why I get infractions and bans, and he gets warnings. For argument sake, if you and I are fighting in a thread, we're both getting disciplined, infractions, or bans because we both go over the line in what we say. If it's me and Pete, he gets a warning and I get an infraction basically because he walked the line like a dick, and I told him go fuck himself. It's not because he's a mod, it's because he's smarter. Me? I just want to tell him to fuck off, has nothing to do with not being as smart.

 

He doesn't get an infraction but he still is intentionally being a dick which I don't think is necessary. Just as was said by someone else earlier, he's basically the reason I don't post here anymore. I don't care about infractions, I don't think I've ever gotten one. I don't have any issues with political threads, or analytics or anything else. I simply don't see the point in going through the aggravation of contributing to this place if dealing with him attacking everything I say is the cost.

[Mike]

He doesn't get an infraction but he still is intentionally being a dick which I don't think is necessary. Just as was said by someone else earlier, he's basically the reason I don't post here anymore. I don't care about infractions, I don't think I've ever gotten one. I don't have any issues with political threads, or analytics or anything else. I simply don't see the point in going through the aggravation of contributing to this place if dealing with him attacking everything I say is the cost.

 

Fair enough. It seems that Pete isn't posting anymore, so everyone who feels the same way you do should consider participating more and give the board another chance.

[NYR2711]

I guess I don't chat enough with everyone. I don't know shot about you or anyone else. Not sure exactly how im supposed to know the info you are describing. Or how I'm to remember if I did read something about any of you.

 

Obviously this place is constructed of a few off internet friends, and members that came from another board all at once. So, maybe THOSE regulars know who's who, but me not knowing a single one of you off of here, and being here what? 3 or so years...? Again not sure how I'm supposed to know who coached pee wee hockey, and who was a former assistant gm of a ECHL team back in 98.....

 

Im not friends with half the board outside of here, but I know which posters have the inside track. Mikey and Puck are the two most connected on the board from what I have read over the years to the sport. Usually what they say is pretty spot on, that doesn't mean though that they are right every time and it isOK to disagree with them. I wouldn't know either one of them if we were the only ones in a room, but I know here who they are and that they are very knowledgable about the game and behind the scenes.

[fletch]

If someone pisses you off, just don't respond. If a post is aggravating... just ignore it. If you engage and it escalates, then is it the other person's fault, or yours for participating? I know I've been a dick, and you know what? When I am, I get what is coming to me.

 

So instead of bitching about Pete... ask yourself why you engaged, and escalated. Pete is great to have a debate with. He researches his points. He attacks your arguments. If I disagree with another user, they are more likely to say 'what the hell do you know. idiot.' Pete focuses on the argument at hand.

[Mike]

Paying attention to what? Not everyone is friends off the boards. Me having to know that you have an inside track to info, is like you having to know that I've been a steam fitter for 10+ years. There isn't a BSBH roster and a bio about you. Expecting people to know exactly who you are is a bit conceded no? And to think everyone that visits and so on should know you too? The Legend of Mike37? Come on man. Seriously? LMAO

 

Actually, I did know that. We've had that conversation before, probably over a year ago. Does that make you a legend of the steamfitting outfit, or is it me just paying attention?

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

I'll try to post more when I can! working a political campaign in Buffalo right now though so it's tough to find time. I don't know if I will be able to even watch games at this point

[Morphinity 2.0]

If someone pisses you off, just don't respond. If a post is aggravating... just ignore it. If you engage and it escalates, then is it the other person's fault, or yours for participating? I know I've been a dick, and you know what? When I am, I get what is coming to me.

 

This really is the best course of action. It takes willpower though to not respond. But sometimes you need to think before you hit the "Post" button and ask yourself, "Is it worth posting this? Or am I just going to get myself into some shit?" I've been doing it for a while and it helps a lot.

[Mike]

This really is the best course of action. It takes willpower though to not respond. But sometimes you need to think before you hit the "Post" button and ask yourself, "Is it worth posting this? Or am I just going to get myself into some shit?" I've been doing it for a while and it helps a lot.

 

I've posted shit and deleted it myself. Probably permaban stuff.

[Jules]

The post about "The Almighty" you got me red handed on. It was in fact a post about a person who seemingly cannot do any wrong. Was I instigating? I guess you could say that, yes. I guess its not ok to instigate? Or is it just ok to instigate someone so long as you walk the line without crossing the line, as its been noted that Pete tends to do. Walk the line and then sit back and wait for you to cross the line that he knows so much better than everyone else and knows where to stop, setting you up for the fall.

 

No one on our team is interested in moderating the place all the time. I don't think anyone goes into any thread setting up traps for other users to fall into so we can infract them. Infracting - which is never done by one moderator and always requires input from most of the team - is time-consuming and I hate doing it. It's also, as Dave mentioned before, pretty darn rare over the course of a year.

 

I think that, to some degree, people take things that don't actually ban them too seriously. If you get a warning, or an infraction even, it's just the team telling you to tone it down and we all want to move on from there. We may not always label it an official anything, but this happens continuously as a team and within the team as well. If we didn't write up a good response, if we got too involved, if the tone is way off, if we derailed a thread, you get called out by the others. I've moderated other places on way different subjects and this team is the most involved with each other's behavior of any team I've worked with. No one is beyond criticism and we regularly call each other out, because that automatically gets saved in the mod section, we just don't have to label it official for record keeping. That may not be an official warning or ban, but I've seen other moderators time and time again say "hey, maybe I just need to take a few days away" and they come back after some time. I've done it too, where I didn't frequent certain sections or threads or even the board for a while.

 

We aren't ignoring what is said here, know that, and I think quite a few moderators here are looking for common ground to work with within this thread alone. It wasn't started to be this, but I, for one, appreciate Vodka opening this and the input we've received as a team. It has given me more desire to post again, actually. This is a good place, really, and I'd like you all to post more and bring over friends. Seriously.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

If someone pisses you off, just don't respond. If a post is aggravating... just ignore it. If you engage and it escalates, then is it the other person's fault, or yours for participating? I know I've been a dick, and you know what? When I am, I get what is coming to me.

 

So instead of bitching about Pete... ask yourself why you engaged, and escalated. Pete is great to have a debate with. He researches his points. He attacks your arguments. If I disagree with another user, they are more likely to say 'what the hell do you know. idiot.' Pete focuses on the argument at hand.

 

This is spot on. Pete and I hated each other at one point here but I changed the way I looked at the way he posted and have grown a great deal of respect for him. He's precise with his arguments, always does his research to back it up and expects the same when debating with someone. Can't fault him for that.

 

 

LGR

[Guest]

Ok so here it goes.

 

I wasn't complaining about a post I found offensive. I was complaining that he said something that, from what I have seen over the time I have been here, would have gotten some kind of a response from a mod. Actually now that I went back and read the specific post you quoted I was pointing out how if someone had a response to one of his posts and totally ignored his whole post to focus on one tidbit of said post, he would have a fit about it and come back with a post along the lines of "Actually this is not correct but that actually is, thanks for ignoring the rest of my post since it didn't fit your narrative" or something similar. I've noticed him do it time and time again.

 

The post about "The Almighty" you got me red handed on. It was in fact a post about a person who seemingly cannot do any wrong. Was I instigating? I guess you could say that, yes. I guess its not ok to instigate? Or is it just ok to instigate someone so long as you walk the line without crossing the line, as its been noted that Pete tends to do. Walk the line and then sit back and wait for you to cross the line that he knows so much better than everyone else and knows where to stop, setting you up for the fall.

 

Another thing some people should consider is to stop assuming things about what people say. When I said "Someone like me" vs "someone like you" I do not mean that in any kind of dismissive or condescending way. In that specific conversation I meant it simply as "someone like me", a Veteran, vs "someone like you" as in someone who did not serve. Regardless of who you know that did swerve, knowing someone who served is not the same as serving so yes, I will dismiss that kind of comment/conversation.

 

Hopefully this post didn't come off as me attacking your position, I was simply explaining my angle of what you posted.

 

I think you're looking at our rule system and how we enforce it in the wrong way. Perhaps that's why you and maybe others feel there is a double standard. When two people very much disagree on something, both sides will likely feel like the other is instigating something. Our guiding rule on that is "was a post made about the user or the user's opinion". Posts made about a user's opinion is acceptable here. Posts made about a user is not.

 

So when you call some "The Almighty" you're talking about them, not their position. We don't allow this. I think you get that. When someone says something like your example, "actually, this is not correct, but that is, thanks for ignoring the rest of my post since it didn't fit your narrative" they are talking about your point of view, not you. That's the distinction. So, lets go back to Pete. When people claim he's walking the line, that line they're talking about is that he doesn't make comments about you, he makes comments about what you are saying. That's the line we want everyone to walk. And no doubt at times when someone really dismisses your opinion it can feel like an attack on you, but it's not. It's just an attack on what you are saying.

 

As to the "someone like me" and "someone like you" comment, I understand what you're saying now that you've better explained it, but in the future then, try to make sure you're explaining it in more detail to aid in understanding. Because again, you're talking about the user, not their opinion. When we put ourselves in these debates the lines can get grey. That happens frequently with our police officer friends here. When the topic of police interaction with the black community gets discussed, often the police who are members here are bringing in their personal experiences (same as you were with your military service, which I thank you for). When we respond to those officers, for instance, we have to make sure that we're clear that we don't make generalizations about police that would apply to them. We have to specifically talk about individual instances (the officer in this case) or qualify our generalizations like (some police do this). If someone said, "all police are racist against blacks" then this would be attacking our users here who are police, and so we'd warn or infract for that.

 

Finally, why all of what may seem like hair splitting to some? Because we don't want this place to become like some other popular forums which are filled with name calling and infighting. We realize that may limit the potential growth of this forum as users who can't understand or follow the distinction between posting about a user vs. a user's opinion get disciplined.

 

Again, thanks for letting us share your recent discipline here, as it's very instructive and helpful in trying to hash this out.

[Guest]

No one on our team is interested in moderating the place all the time. I don't think anyone goes into any thread setting up traps for other users to fall into so we can infract them. Infracting - which is never done by one moderator and always requires input from most of the team - is time-consuming and I hate doing it. It's also, as Dave mentioned before, pretty darn rare over the course of a year.

 

I think that, to some degree, people take things that don't actually ban them too seriously. If you get a warning, or an infraction even, it's just the team telling you to tone it down and we all want to move on from there. We may not always label it an official anything, but this happens continuously as a team and within the team as well. If we didn't write up a good response, if we got too involved, if the tone is way off, if we derailed a thread, you get called out by the others. I've moderated other places on way different subjects and this team is the most involved with each other's behavior of any team I've worked with. No one is beyond criticism and we regularly call each other out, because that automatically gets saved in the mod section, we just don't have to label it official for record keeping. That may not be an official warning or ban, but I've seen other moderators time and time again say "hey, maybe I just need to take a few days away" and they come back after some time. I've done it too, where I didn't frequent certain sections or threads or even the board for a while.

 

We aren't ignoring what is said here, know that, and I think quite a few moderators here are looking for common ground to work with within this thread alone. It wasn't started to be this, but I, for one, appreciate Vodka opening this and the input we've received as a team. It has given me more desire to post again, actually. This is a good place, really, and I'd like you all to post more and bring over friends. Seriously.

 

I didn't want to get into this, because we like to keep all moderation discussion that we have in private. That's with users and mods alike. But I'm glad Jules brought this up. I've pointed out and made public that I've had some of my posts discussed privately and I've taken a couple of small breaks when this place really got on my nerves. I didn't want to bring up the fact that that's the entire mod team's experience. We just keep it private because we keep all moderation matters private.

 

That said, when one of us steps into a heated conversation and post one of those bolded warnings, sometimes coloring the font, that the conversation needs to tone down or stop all together, that's a warning towards all the users engaging in that debate in that way. Users and mods a like.

[Guest]

He doesn't get an infraction but he still is intentionally being a dick which I don't think is necessary. Just as was said by someone else earlier, he's basically the reason I don't post here anymore. I don't care about infractions, I don't think I've ever gotten one. I don't have any issues with political threads, or analytics or anything else. I simply don't see the point in going through the aggravation of contributing to this place if dealing with him attacking everything I say is the cost.

 

This is a warning that this type of post about a user is unacceptable here. We will be discussing this post privately to see if it warrants further discipline. We would normally delete this, but I'm leaving it up as it so completely illustrates what we've been talking about. This is the exact type of post we don't want on this forum. Just because we're discussing this topic doesn't give anyone here free reign to make negative comments about users like this one.

[Future]

Actually, I did know that. We've had that conversation before, probably over a year ago. Does that make you a legend of the steamfitting outfit, or is it me just paying attention?

I remember one time early on after I joined that you posted a rumor about the Bruins. I asked for a link where you heard and, long story short, I said I didn't know you from a ham sandwich. It was explained to me that you had some good sources and, indeed, are similar to a ham sandwich.

 

I'm not sure how that relates to this thread, but I never forgot after that lol

[Patrick Bateman]

Main problem with this forum is it doesn't seem fun anymore because a lot of the people who kind of fit a certain mold aren't around anymore, and some of the newer users don't really feel comfortable getting involved in some of the jokes and banter in other sections of the forum.

 

I've mentioned this multiple times but I really don't even try to post in Rangers threads anymore (and I didn't do it too often before) because you're essentially entering a potential argument that will monopolize a huge amount of your time. Sometimes I will go to make a post, and halfway through realize it's not worth it and delete it.

 

I guess you kind of have to step back and look at what you want this place to be in the future, and see what changes (if any) need to be made to get to that point.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

maybe we should mutiny like we did with the old board! lol

[Vodka Drunkenski]

maybe we should mutiny like we did with the old board! lol

 

Hey now lol

 

 

LGR

[Mike]

This is a warning that this type of post about a user is unacceptable here. We will be discussing this post privately to see if it warrants further discipline. We would normally delete this, but I'm leaving it up as it so completely illustrates what we've been talking about. This is the exact type of post we don't want on this forum. Just because we're discussing this topic doesn't give anyone here free reign to make negative comments about users like this one.

In all fairness to TMFN, he was responding to my post in which I insinuated that Pete could come off that way.

[RichieNextel305]

No disrespect, but to an extent TMFN is kind of right on. It got tiring coming here and having every single thing in every single thread broken down, dissected, analyzed, critiqued, etc. It got even older to then respond, only to be met by a response that is basically baiting. And once someone takes the bait, warnings, infractions, etc. are passed out.

 

There was a root of all of this. I think most of us here can agree. No one wants to see him go, we just wished it was corrected. It never was, and there were countless people making countless complaints about it in threads or in messages. Yet no one really wanted to hear it, or no offense, there was always an excuse for it.

 

So, no offense, I don't understand really how someone can look at the lack of activity here and ask "Why?" when users have had issues for years with one individual who was basically allowed to do as he pleased even though several others complained about the way he posted. All due respect, but my cursing was out of line years ago. I was messaged on it. I corrected it. Story over. He, on the other hand, started more issues than you can count and derailed multiple threads and caused more fights than anyone on here ever has, yet nothing ever seemed to get fixed. And if we complained, it was "we're taking care of it behind closed doors."

 

The whole act kind of got old, and like I said earlier, for me, that really is what drove me away from being someone who posts everyday here. I lurk, and I still do post. But not like how I used to. It became a headache to me to be baited into fights, or watch others baited into fights, by the same person, only to watch myself and others turn into the bad guys. It happened too often. Again, for those of you saying "well if you don't like or agree with what someone says, sometimes it's just best to ignore it." For starters, that is a lot easier said than done. And let me also ask this: if he didn't like or agree with somethings posted, why couldn't he sometimes just ignore it?

 

Trust us when we tell you this, it was a problem. I'm not knocking the mods here, I'm really not. But people aren't just writing here to read their own shit. They're writing because the subjected was brought up, and now it's an open floor.

 

I know a lot of you people are close, whether in real life or as internet buddies. That's cool. But, as a group, you have to sometimes respect the wishes of the community you're hosting instead of always having your friends back. And again, I'm sorry to say this but it really is how I feel, but a lot more often than not, it always seemed you'd take your friends side. If that's the way it's gonna be, then that's fine. But when the board dries up to the same 9 or 10 people posting in every thread, don't ask why it is the way it is. Because it only is that way, largely, because people got tired of having to fight with the same person over and over and over and over again.

[Albatrosss]

I miss your posts.... when I go back in the older threads I enjoy reading what you had to say.

 

thanks man. likewise. its a shame that posting here became no longer fun.

[Mentosman42]

Everyone should just go back to webleedblue.....

 

 

 

 

 

lul

[Guest]

No disrespect, but to an extent TMFN is kind of right on. It got tiring coming here and having every single thing in every single thread broken down, dissected, analyzed, critiqued, etc. It got even older to then respond, only to be met by a response that is basically baiting. And once someone takes the bait, warnings, infractions, etc. are passed out.

 

There was a root of all of this. I think most of us here can agree. No one wants to see him go, we just wished it was corrected. It never was, and there were countless people making countless complaints about it in threads or in messages. Yet no one really wanted to hear it, or no offense, there was always an excuse for it.

 

So, no offense, I don't understand really how someone can look at the lack of activity here and ask "Why?" when users have had issues for years with one individual who was basically allowed to do as he pleased even though several others complained about the way he posted. All due respect, but my cursing was out of line years ago. I was messaged on it. I corrected it. Story over. He, on the other hand, started more issues than you can count and derailed multiple threads and caused more fights than anyone on here ever has, yet nothing ever seemed to get fixed. And if we complained, it was "we're taking care of it behind closed doors."

 

The whole act kind of got old, and like I said earlier, for me, that really is what drove me away from being someone who posts everyday here. I lurk, and I still do post. But not like how I used to. It became a headache to me to be baited into fights, or watch others baited into fights, by the same person, only to watch myself and others turn into the bad guys. It happened too often. Again, for those of you saying "well if you don't like or agree with what someone says, sometimes it's just best to ignore it." For starters, that is a lot easier said than done. And let me also ask this: if he didn't like or agree with somethings posted, why couldn't he sometimes just ignore it?

 

Trust us when we tell you this, it was a problem. I'm not knocking the mods here, I'm really not. But people aren't just writing here to read their own shit. They're writing because the subjected was brought up, and now it's an open floor.

 

I know a lot of you people are close, whether in real life or as internet buddies. That's cool. But, as a group, you have to sometimes respect the wishes of the community you're hosting instead of always having your friends back. And again, I'm sorry to say this but it really is how I feel, but a lot more often than not, it always seemed you'd take your friends side. If that's the way it's gonna be, then that's fine. But when the board dries up to the same 9 or 10 people posting in every thread, don't ask why it is the way it is. Because it only is that way, largely, because people got tired of having to fight with the same person over and over and over and over again.

 

I have had problems with certain users. I engage them in debate. If I don't like the way they respond to my opinions, I engage further. If it's getting aggravating to me, I just move along. I don't ask for anyone to do anything about them unless I feel they've violated a forum rule. In that case, I report the post to the other mods, explain why I think it was worth a warning/infraction and then I move on. My role as a mod is different than a user's. As a user, your option on the forum if you think a poster is over the line is to report those posts and let us deal with them. Pete, like every other mod, has had posts reported by users. Not many though. Certainly not as many as you would think if this was some sort of great problem that a ton of members had. As you've said, you've brought him up to us previously. Yet nothing that gets brought up has been him violating forum rules. At worst, he may seem hostile at times. We all are when we're defending positions we feel strongly about.

 

It seems to me, there are some people here that don't like debating with Pete. They claim it's because he's breaking forum rules and not getting punished for that, yet we repeatedly ask for posts where he breaks forum rules and then we hear crickets. Here's someone you're claiming a lot of people have a problem with, yet we're not getting that feedback through the one system we're practically begging you to use if you have an issue. We want you to use that feature because we try to treat every user, mod or otherwise, exactly the same. And the first step of that process is examining the post in question.

 

And because I have no evidence, the only conclusion I can come up with is that some people don't like to have their posts challenged the way Pete does. While I can understand that may be frustrating, it's the purpose of the forums. The owner of the forum wants unfettered debate within the rules he's set forth and we've all agreed to. What I'm hearing from you is that you don't want someone constantly challenging your posts. I'm not sure this forum is for you, if that's the case. It's the one thing I very much doubt we'll see changing.

 

From what I've seen, a few users get into really heated discussions on topic with Pete, then get frustrated and lash out at him. Then when they get warned or infacted, they say it's special treatment or persecution. What I've seen, looking through history of reported posts and infractions isn't Pete baiting others. I see him debating very strongly and then others baiting him, often by making posts about him, the person, instead of his posts. So they are the ones violating forum rules.

 

As to the claim that us mods are friends with him so we're ignoring when he crosses the line, it flat out doesn't happen. In fact, I'd guess that especially Phil and I have had the same exact heated conversations with him as you have. The only difference is, we don't lash out at him, the user, when we get frustrated the way some other users have who have received warnings/infractions. And realize, as I mentioned earlier, we're talking like a total of 25 warnings/infractions total on the entire forum over the course of a year. So unless that was all directed at 2 or 3 users, it's hard to make a case for persecution.

 

We've had discussions a few times over Pete because of a few users here having this same strong feeling you have. We've watched his interactions with them, we, him included, have questioned if he's violating any forum rules. Pete has come to us about this because he doesn't want to make our jobs more difficult. We've yet to find situations where he's broken forum rules, though. And since no else can either via reporting posts, I'm not sure what is expected for us to do. He's not the only one. We have other users on the forum who this happens with. When they or anyone break rules, we deal with that. Other than that, it's personality or posting style clashes. And we won't moderate that. It's not our place.

[Puck Head]

Im not friends with half the board outside of here' date=' but I know which posters have the inside track. Mikey and Puck are the two most connected on the board from what I have read over the years to the sport. Usually what they say is pretty spot on, that doesn't mean though that they are right every time and it isOK to disagree with them. I wouldn't know either one of them if we were the only ones in a room, but I know here who they are and that they are very knowledgable about the game and behind the scenes.[/quote']

 

Appreciate the info.

I appear to know why I'm talking about because I've taken the time to delete 90% of my idiotic drivel.

Except for Budish-

Trophy's will be named after him

[Mike]

Im not friends with half the board outside of here, but I know which posters have the inside track. Mikey and Puck are the two most connected on the board from what I have read over the years to the sport. Usually what they say is pretty spot on, that doesn't mean though that they are right every time and it isOK to disagree with them. I wouldn't know either one of them if we were the only ones in a room, but I know here who they are and that they are very knowledgable about the game and behind the scenes.

 

I remember one time early on after I joined that you posted a rumor about the Bruins. I asked for a link where you heard and, long story short, I said I didn't know you from a ham sandwich. It was explained to me that you had some good sources and, indeed, are similar to a ham sandwich.

 

I'm not sure how that relates to this thread, but I never forgot after that lol

 

Thanks. I think.